Had this idea in my head for a while and finally snagged a set of sagas to build it.
4 Esper sentinel
1 Phyrexian dreadnought
4 hushbringer
4 patchwork automaton
4 Oswald fiddlebender
4 ingenious smith
3 painter’s servant
2 grindstone
4 march of otherworldly light
1 torpor orb
1 soul-guide lantern
1 shadowspear
1 portable hole
1 hope of ghirapur
1 haywire mite
1 ethersworn canonist
3 mox opal
4 Urza’s saga
1 karakas
2 eiganjo, seat of the empire
1 darksteel citadel
4 ancient den
8 snow-covered plains
Sideboard
2 Hanna’s custody
1 currency converter
3 deafening silence
2 stoneforge mystic
1 abolish
1 lion sash
1 kaldra compleat
1 sorcerous spyglass
2 swords to plowshares
1 teshar, ancestor’s apostle
So as a quick gloss over, it’s meant to be an aggro deck with 2 “grow creatures”. And since we can aim deck some generic hate we get some quick lines to dreadnought which is really still the same attack plan. That’s where the beauty of the painter plan shines. It’s a way to win without the combat step then can happen equally fast out of the blue. March works extra nice with painter and gives a strong main deck answer to a lot. Also have access to a saga package to help give some options game 1. Sideboard is still up in the air. I did want to be cute with reverent mantra, and will probably have Hanna’s custody in some number.
For something that stemmed from my desire to revisit the mighty quinn I am quite happy with how this turned out. There are even some cute plays with karakas and hope. Feels powerful in gold fishing and I’m aiming to take this to our next legacy event. Will update around that event. Enjoy!
Last edited by Weapon X; 03-28-2023 at 06:55 PM.
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Poster Daniel Worobec (in addition to myself) Have seen the saga -> dreadnought/grindstone interaction and have been looking into it. I don't know what is the best way to marry the dreadnoughts with the painters but I do, firmly believe one of the missing pieces is chalice, and cavern of souls.
I like this plan.
There's normally anti-synergy combining Painter and Nought (combat step vs mill, non-overlapping pieces) but I like how you tied them together here. You have few copies of the most situational cards (Nought, Grindstone), tutoring them with Saga. No multiple copies of Torpor Orb. If you assemble the wrong artifact pieces, at least they all advance the grow plan.
Since you don't need your own grave, is Relic better than Soul-Guide? Relic slowly eating away is relevant vs DRC, Murktide, Uro, etc.
Does this deck want Mother of Ruins to protect all the creature pieces? (E.g. so Dreadnought doesn't get 2-for-1d with Bolt on Hushbringer)
I wasn’t convinced on mother especially when Hanna’s custody exists. As for the graveyard I had plans for Teshar in the 75 somewhere, as again he can turn on otherwise dead cards. The real thing I’ve been struggling with is how “cute” to get. Like hope and karakas is great for the grow plan, even bouncing as Oswald can make karakas add 2 for a march. It’s been gold fishing well so far with some Oops I hit a combo moments. That’s a kind of pressure I like.
@dogs: just looking at what you’re trying to do feels very clunky. You’re trying to make a shell of awkward and then make a deck. This approach was make a deck and see if things can slot in and improve it, and it works. I don’t see a need for chalice with my build; it’s just classic aggro with a combo.
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The Hope + Karakas trick looks good. But is the 3rd Karakas too cute?
Do you have enough 0s for Oswald to effectively tutor for that toolbox of 1s? 4th Mox Opal seems good.
What does your SB look like? Any Swords to Plowshares? You've got Marit Lage covered between Karakas and March, but your maindeck can't answer a big Murktide Regent (which also flies over all your ground fatties).
Edit: Dispatch is an option but could be too cute.
You could run Nettlecyst for more beatdown. It's tutorable with Oswald sometimes. It also makes Esper Sentinel dumb in the late game and equips well with Hushbringer.
That’s been the real tricky part, what to do with the board. Immediately I was thinking Urza’s targets that I won’t main deck… but that’s really just design process more then anything. I liked the idea of adding stoneforge and another equipment since that just adds to the main beatdown plan. Realistically it’s dreadnought stuff that’s most likely to get cut so that opens a lot of main deck space. Councils judgement is always on my radar as removal seems to be the most needed. It’s also why I’m opting to main deck the most generic one.
I have 2 weeks to sort out this puzzle before I play it.
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Why? Chalice with an aggressively costed plan feels like a non-bo. Trinisphere would suit that kind of thing better.
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Good points on all counts.
Looking at the sideboard you recently added above:
SB Swords looks good. Maybe even 3-4 copies. Removal + racing seems like your best plan vs Murktide and Initiative. Depending on how aggro you are, maybe you even want Path to Exile instead?
To make room for enough slots against combo and artifact hate, maybe there isn't space for cute stuff. I think there's no room for Stoneforge. At 2 copies it's inconsistent, it only works if you board out the Hushbringers + Dreadnought part, and the package eats up a lot of SB space. Same for Currency Converter. As much as I love that card, it's more of a grindy control card than an aggro card, and has no synergy with the deck engines. You already have enough Saga targets. Cutting those frees up some room.
Then you have room for grave hate. Tormod's Crypt has the most synergy with your deck (aggro grow, fast Metalcraft, Oswald fodder). Crypts + Soul-Guide + 1 Lion Sash?
Pithing Needle seems better than Spyglass, because you can tutor it more easily.
Instead of Abolish... Disenchant or Council's Judgment? When would you need the discard a Plains mode? Maybe you don't need this slot. If you board in Swords, you can save March to answer most artifacts and enchantments.
Another option for combo is to play 1-2 Enlightened Tutor in the board. It's bad in fair games but really boosts consistency of seeing hate vs combo. Then you can trim down on redundant copies (1 Deafening Silence, 1 Tormod's Crypt) and rely on the tutors to help fix them, while they also help assemble your game-winning combos. That may save you SB space too.
I have to admit the stoneforge may be on the cute side. It could probably be cut. It’s just hard making those calls without the pressure cooker that are the actual games. I think I may still end up with one as of right now, but as I get matchups in that may change. Realistically they could be enlightened tutors, but I’ll most likely make as broad a board as I can just to cover my bases and see where holes arise.
I kind of want to main the lion over soul guide, but the game 1 tutor potential suggests that is most likely the wrong call. Plus I like the cantrip artifacts. Drawing cards isn’t something white does a lot, it’s actually why I want currency converter.
My spyglass reasoning is mainly because of the peek. Info for combo is great so I would need to weight info vs tutoring most likely.
I chose abolish mainly because of the cmc. The free may come up but ways around chalice seem good especially when my party is 2. Could be council’s judgement instead if planes walkers become a real issue.
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I feel like ratchet is trying to do what Teshar does and not as easily.
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I think you would really like Tameshi, Reality Architect. Bounce a land, enter Urza's Saga. This could be ideal for playing through Wastelands. It can enter Dreadnought, Tormod's Crypt, etc. It can enter Esper Sentinel as well is good against Delver's burn. Bouncing the land is +1 draw each turn, or better if you want to play more bounce effects for the opponent's side of the turn cycle. Bounce forces opponent on Regent and Delver to play fair magic, tho this won't also trigger Tameshi..
worth noting, Tameshi can make an absurd amount of mana with LED, or Lotus Bloom, if you have a tutor from a non-hand zone. There doesn't seem to be much reason to play LED in this list but Urza's Saga can find it.
Tameshi could be a comparable with Emry, when Tameshi can also enter enchantments like Deafening Silence.
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