That's what happens. Just like with Blood Moon / Dryad of the Elysium grove.
Yeah people were high on Leyline as a quality answer to Blood Moon until they realized the nature of the Leyline put timestamps right back to the status quo.
In simple terms, you play T0 Leyline, nonbasic land go; they play T1 Blood Moon, you untap your Mountain and lose. Blood Moon played after Leyline overwrites the same layer tech from Leyline. It's a bummer
Originally Posted by GreatWhale
play more basic forests, I guess
Indeed I missed the keywords!
Seems much better, true.
You have 10 ways to get a basic that gives you all colors T1 and is all basic land types. No reason to play nonbasic if you have sny of the 10. Still a great answer to blood moon, just not T0. I think I would sideout blood moons effect OTD vs this leyline deck.
It not not an answer, but wild to think you'd have to pause and think looking at your opening hand against the unknown opponent to see if you want to Turn Zero a Leyline out.
Also I'm not sure what you mean by 10 ways, looking at the 5-0 list, I see 2 basics.
If they went T0 Leyline, T1 Savannah into Ponder (cheeky!) pass, If the opponent goes T1 turbo Blood Moon it's Force or bust. Otherwise I see 1 Island, 1 Plains and 17 Mountains which isn't enough to reLeyline.
You could pay 3 mana to Bind but that's the same play in a list without Leyline of the Guildpact.
There some other list we're discussing?
8 fetches & 2 basics means 10 lands that can be T1 basic if you go first. If your opening hand has Leyline, fetch T1 basic and then opponent can't Blood Moon you out of the game. Your other lands will be Mountains but you have 1 basic of 5 colors. Monored can't destroy enchantments so you're safe.
Edit: It's wild that you can cast basically everything off that 1 basic + Mountains. The only cards with 2 color pips are Kavu (RG) and Forth Eorlingas (RW), with Blood Moon fixing the red for you. The rest work with 1 5c basic + colorless. So with just 1 basic + Leyline you are a 5c deck that ignores Blood Moon.
Honestly, I want to see somebody build a green-based Stompy deck with Leyline and Dryad of the Ilysian Grove as back-up.
T0 Leyline, T1 Ancient Tomb --> Scion of Draco sounds hilarious.
Throw in some Wastelands and Ramunaps/Life from the Loam (for Boseiju recursion) for the extra spice.
I get that; but that logic is irrelevant to the inclusion of Leyline of the Guildpact to which I was discussing.
If the argument is that T0 Leyline is great and awesome and everything because even if the opponent goes T1 Blood Moon, our deck is set up in such a way that we don't even need to play Leyline of the Guildpact. So then we're talking about a card we don't need to play. That's a different metric than what I was using in my previous post.
Why are you using tomb when...
City of traitors gets bounced for daze?
To power out Stompy threats? Scion-powered rainbow Questing Beast sounds like a good way to tell Ring users to fuck off and it's GSZable. Haste and Deathtouch are great additions to the rainbow abilities that Scion can grant.
Let people have fun with it, jeeze
Are we talking about the same thing? Are you talking about the green stompy stuff?
My argument is T0 Leyline is amazing because T1 fetch-> basic still taps for all 5 colors (due to Leyline). That basic 5c land casts everything and enables all Domain abilities, even if opponent casts Blood Moon after. Moon shuts off the nonbasics but your basic 5c land is immune! That's impossible without Leyline. Leyline lets you play 5c with immunity to Blood Moon & Wasteland. Crazy times.
Got it, since that deck doesn't have Murktide or other double color heavy stuff, a single rainbow land plus Mountains casts everything since it's R(x).
Seeing people play Leyline alongside their own Blood Moon effects is kinda messed up.
I used to run a homebrew deck with Bloodghasts, Firemane Angels, Careful Study/Faithless Looting, Prismatic Omen, Emeria Ruins, Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle and Scapeshift. If it didn't scapeshift ftw, it could grind people out with recurring angels and vampires or burn them down with fetchlands off of multiple valakuts.
Given how things have changed since then its probably not remotely viable now, but it was a ton of fun to play.
The 5c Leyline means you can do the same thing in Loam with 1-of Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle and land tutors (Crop Rotation, Elvish Reclaimer, or Expedition Map). It's a late-game ender like Field of the Dead, but with more Bolts.
Also you can now even consider a deck called "5c Loam" lol
Leyline, manabond, and 6 lands including a Valakut is a T1 kill otd (if one of the lands is a fetch or second Valakut).
For reference the odds of rolling two 39.9%'ers and to have a sub 10% chance for 5 lands is below 2%.
Edit: it's actually considerably worse as you have to roll Valakut too, so that's another 39.9% role of you play 4 copies. That's somewhere around 0.65% odds at best.
The sub 10% chance for 5 lands must be based on decks with 8 Ponder and not decks with 43 lands
The odds of opening Manabond + Leyline + Valakut is low. But it's quite realistic for Valakut to turn into late game Field of the Dead / Punishing Fire on steroids. Especially with Loam, multiple land drops, and fetches. Green based Lands with Yavimaya can also hardcast Leyline for GGGG.
It was made from 25 total base. The odds of 5x lands from xerox is 2.77% (19 land). The biggest issue is trying to roll 39.9% 3x in a row (and it gets worse if you're on less than 4x Valakut).
At 43 lands you're at 4.3% (still not a gameplan). 1 in 25 *7* cards hands; mulligans won't do at all.
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