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Thread: [OTJ] Outlaws of Thunder Junction - because Hearthstone and Magic just mirror themes

  1. #81

    Re: [OTJ] Outlaws of Thunder Junction - because Hearthstone and Magic just mirror the

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post


    Any uses for this?
    Win-more.

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    Re: [OTJ] Outlaws of Thunder Junction - because Hearthstone and Magic just mirror the

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    Win-more.
    In legacy, sure.
    Within the bloc it should play nicely with the plot mechanic, both to generate the storm and to cast a useful spell after spending 5.

  3. #83

    Re: [OTJ] Outlaws of Thunder Junction - because Hearthstone and Magic just mirror the

    Quote Originally Posted by dte View Post
    In legacy, sure.
    Within the bloc it should play nicely with the plot mechanic, both to generate the storm and to cast a useful spell after spending 5.
    It's a commander card so none of that will happen.

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    Re: [OTJ] Outlaws of Thunder Junction - because Hearthstone and Magic just mirror the

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Seems funny to play right before Galvanic Relay (double draw) or Bonus Round (maybe win-more) or whatever version of Jeska's Will they now play (do you have to choose the same mode for each storm copy)?

    Other storm decks probably can't use it because their payoffs are too high cmc to chain after this (except Gaea's Will, but that isn't cast directly). ANT could 8xBrainstorm, which is fun, but at that mana they can just tutor into Ad Naus.

    Edit: with Bowmasters/Sheoldred in play, dump ritual mana into Spellslinger then play LED + Echo of Eons as "0-mana draw 35". That might be one of the lowest cmc payoffs (needs 0 mana after Spellslinger) but also the silliest.
    The easiest payoff would probaby a free Fireblast. You would need only 3 other spells before Crackling Spellslinger to reach lethal damage. You could use Wish to play it from the SB even.

  5. #85
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    Re: [OTJ] Outlaws of Thunder Junction - because Hearthstone and Magic just mirror the

    That's interesting and would change the shape of the deck a lot, since you don't need Ruby Medallion to go off and prefer Mountains to Sol Lands.

    It may be a hybrid with the Belcher shell... Desperate Ritual, Seething Song/Jeska's Will to ramp to 5, then Fireblast/Wish for Fireblast. Without Spellslinger it still has Galvanic Relay and Wishes into Empty or Tendrils. So it could be a functional shell without Spellslinger than can also Sling into Fireblast at lower storm.

    Edit: The problem is Fireblast is a card that isn't great main. In the board it needs 3 CMC Wish to get it (before casting Slinger), either 8 mana that turn or 3 on an earlier turn, so the combo loses efficiency. Or you jam Fireblast mains and risk the bad draws.

    Using Burning Wish you could also get Reckless Abandon (lol, doesn't need mountains, sacs Spellslinger) to win at the same storm count and mana, or Chain Lightning to win at slightly higher storm. Chain has the advantage of being a card Storm may actually want in a Wishboard (kills hate-elephant). Reckless Abandon or Fireblast only have value in the 75 as wincons with Spellslinger.

  6. #86

    Re: [OTJ] Outlaws of Thunder Junction - because Hearthstone and Magic just mirror the

    I imagine it's not up to snuff, but this seems like it could work in a spring tide deck:
    Lock and Load
    2U
    Sorcery

    Draw a card, then draw a card for each other instant and sorcery spell you’ve cast this turn.

    Plot 3U

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    Re: [OTJ] Outlaws of Thunder Junction - because Hearthstone and Magic just mirror the

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post

    A storm payoff that only requires a storm count of like 3.
    And if you just make 3 dragons and try again next turn (and fizzle) the prowess might kill the op anyways
    I've been messing around with different ideas, and I brewed this up: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/6cTOltP71kCAQ779P8kZjA

    There are other directions you could go in (like Ruby Storm-style, artifacts, etc., or just a Burning Wish target in existing decks) but my favorite concept was having 12 Storm payoffs, without having to counterably tutor for it, kind of like Belcher's Empty plan, enlarged. Except we get to play sol lands.

    I submitted it to Tony Scapone as a dono deck, so when the set comes out, he'll stream it on Twitch and we'll get an idea of how good it is. I'll also be testing it on MTGO.

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    Re: [OTJ] Outlaws of Thunder Junction - because Hearthstone and Magic just mirror the

    Interesting idea.

    9 permanent colored Initial Mana Sources (1 Mountain + 4 MDFC + 4 Mox). 13 including Petal. Feels a little low. You do have 5 sol lands but can't really do anything without red.

    Belcher ran more IMS (20-21: Mox, Land Grant + Taiga, Petal, 8 spirit guide) and then more 1 mana starters (8: Rite of Flame & Tinder Wall). So even though it was a 1-2 land deck, it had more gas to get off the ground.

    Might be good to cut some Pyretic Rituals for more initial red mana. Pyretic is by far the worst (2cmc +1 mana, so worse than an Initial Mana). You could also consider a couple Sandstone Needle over the 1 City of Traitors.

  9. #89

    Re: [OTJ] Outlaws of Thunder Junction - because Hearthstone and Magic just mirror the

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott View Post
    I've been messing around with different ideas, and I brewed this up: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/6cTOltP71kCAQ779P8kZjA

    There are other directions you could go in (like Ruby Storm-style, artifacts, etc., or just a Burning Wish target in existing decks) but my favorite concept was having 12 Storm payoffs, without having to counterably tutor for it, kind of like Belcher's Empty plan, enlarged. Except we get to play sol lands.

    I submitted it to Tony Scapone as a dono deck, so when the set comes out, he'll stream it on Twitch and we'll get an idea of how good it is. I'll also be testing it on MTGO.
    Why do you not just have 1 or 2 Belchers in there as well? It's less reliable, but it still works. Song of Totentanz It makes an army given enough mana or for R gives your dragons haste and a +1 prowess.

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    Re: [OTJ] Outlaws of Thunder Junction - because Hearthstone and Magic just mirror the

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Interesting idea.

    9 permanent colored Initial Mana Sources (1 Mountain + 4 MDFC + 4 Mox). 13 including Petal. Feels a little low. You do have 5 sol lands but can't really do anything without red.

    Belcher ran more IMS (20-21: Mox, Land Grant + Taiga, Petal, 8 spirit guide) and then more 1 mana starters (8: Rite of Flame & Tinder Wall). So even though it was a 1-2 land deck, it had more gas to get off the ground.

    Might be good to cut some Pyretic Rituals for more initial red mana. Pyretic is by far the worst (2cmc +1 mana, so worse than an Initial Mana). You could also consider a couple Sandstone Needle over the 1 City of Traitors.
    I appreciate the thoughts on mana and such because it gets to a core matter of importance to this type of deck: the balance between initial mana, bigger mana, payoffs, lands that are amazing as uncounterable rituals but bad to draw in multiples when you want storm spells, and rituals that are amazing for storm count and ramp but need starting mana.

    I like your idea to compare the initial red sources to recent Belcher lists (neither deck can do anything without it). My deck has 17 atm: 1 Mountain, 4 MDFC, 4 Mox, 4 Petal, 4 SSG.

    This is the Belcher build that's had the most recent success. I would consider it to have ~18.5 initial red sources. It has 4 SSG, 4 Land Grant, 4 Mox, 4 Petal, and 1 Taiga. It has 4 SSG but those are only the initial red source if you also draw Tinder Wall, and the odds of that also being in your remaining 6 cards are 30-something percent, so I'll say it's 1.5 red sources. I think that way of counting the SSG green mana makes sense.
    https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/5366375

    This is another recent Belcher placing. I'd consider it to have ~14 initial red sources: 4 SSG, 3 Mox, 4 Petal, and this time 4 SSG and 4 Turntimber Symbiosis, which I'll apply the same math to, as they're only initial red mana if you also have Tinder Wall.
    https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/5267605

    Things get more complicated with Echo re-draws. They also get more complicated when discussing the starters beyond the initial mana, like Rite of Flame, because I have things like, initial red mana plus sol land into 3-drop, or sol lands into Monolith.

    The numbers are definitely not in stone (assuming it's not a doomed 2-3 league idea in the first place), but I'll give some reasons for my current numbers:

    In testing, 2-drop rituals are super important for going up the ladder, from initial mana, to 3-drops like Seething Song and Jeska's Will. It's a big reason why I added a couple of Monoliths, in addition to the multi-turn line into Elemental Eruption.

    Sandstone is really interesting. Adding it to the considering section on the deck page. I confess that I don't like the idea of it coming into play tapped. I haven't wanted more lands (Cities got trimmed), because you essentially fizzle as you have or Relay into too many lands that can't all be played in the same turn. So then it would be a question of what existing land it replaces. The most likely candidate would have to be City, because I'm not cutting any red lands, but I do like that 5th untapped sol land acceleration. Will have to test it at some point.

    It is nice that Needle an uncounterable ritual, and you can just wait a turn like with Monolith, but at least Monolith is always at a minimum mana positive in that turn.

    Quote Originally Posted by morgan_coke View Post
    Why do you not just have 1 or 2 Belchers in there as well? It's less reliable, but it still works. Song of Totentanz It makes an army given enough mana or for R gives your dragons haste and a +1 prowess.
    Apart from the lower reliability that you mentioned, because of the lands, Belcher quickly got the axe for a few reasons, at least in the conceptual frame that I'm going for: a.) Really focusing on mostly-uncounterable payoffs, unlike Belcher, and Echo and Burning Wish, if you want to group them in there b.) LED doesn't make sense as the build stands c.) In a general sense, mana intensive and susceptible to things like FoN.

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    Re: [OTJ] Outlaws of Thunder Junction - because Hearthstone and Magic just mirror the

    Moved reply to other thread to avoid derailing spoiler discussion.
    Last edited by FTW; 04-16-2024 at 05:35 PM.

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