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Thread: [MH3] Modern Horizions 3: Rotation Days Are Here Again

  1. #81

    Re: [MH3] Modern Horizions 3: Rotation Days Are Here Again

    There's already Sanctuary / Witch's cottage to really get this going.

    Is there a good 2 mana draw spell? Something you can ppunish by Cottage your Bowmaster into?

  2. #82
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    Re: [MH3] Modern Horizions 3: Rotation Days Are Here Again

    lol haven't Accumulated Knowledge players suffered enough?
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
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    Re: [MH3] Modern Horizions 3: Rotation Days Are Here Again

    Lol with this you can win counter wars with Brainstorm putting FoW to TOP OF LIBRARY instead of hand.

    In other words, Brainstorm puts 3 new cards in hand, 1 back, and Force their Force for free (cast from top of library and you don't have to draw through it)
    Vs
    Brainstorm replaces itself (2 cards back), and you discard 2 cards from hand to FoW

  4. #84
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    Re: [MH3] Modern Horizions 3: Rotation Days Are Here Again

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    There's already Sanctuary / Witch's cottage to really get this going.

    Is there a good 2 mana draw spell? Something you can ppunish by Cottage your Bowmaster into?
    Not sure cottage is the play since to abuse any of the balances you need the instant speed library manipulation, unless you're just predicting what opponent will cast. Additionally, cottage seems rough with the RR cost.
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  5. #85

    Re: [MH3] Modern Horizions 3: Rotation Days Are Here Again

    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    Not sure cottage is the play since to abuse any of the balances you need the instant speed library manipulation, unless you're just predicting what opponent will cast. Additionally, cottage seems rough with the RR cost.
    The "Instant speed library manipulation" requirement is simply a fetchland. That's why I brought them up.

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    Re: [MH3] Modern Horizions 3: Rotation Days Are Here Again

    Witches Cottage isn't good enough in most decks, but Mystic Sanctuary is.

    It's good enough to splash some 2-mana counters so you can Sanctuary a 2cmc answer on top to counter things like: Bowmasters, Beanstalk, Prismatic Ending X=2, Counterbalance, Powerbalance, Animate Dead/Exhume, Chalice @ 1, Stoneforge, etc.

    Jeskai can also run Hall of Heliod's Generosity. UR can run Academy Ruins. Grixis can run Volrath's Stronghold.

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    Re: [MH3] Modern Horizions 3: Rotation Days Are Here Again

    You think it's good enough to get cute with?

    I just figured play a normal curve and generate value, especially in multiples, maybe with fetches to shuffle misses between triggers.

    Getting a Bowmaster in response to their Bowmaster isn't a useful interaction, not sure what kind of shell you're considering though.
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    Re: [MH3] Modern Horizions 3: Rotation Days Are Here Again

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateKing View Post
    You think it's good enough to get cute with?
    Only in the right deck. I'm considering it in Jeskai control, which could play it for regular value midgame and then runaway with control lategame with tricks like fetch-> Mystic Sanctuary or a 1-of Hall of Heliod. Grixis Control could try the same thing with Volrath's Stronghold (if there were enough playable value creatures). Those decks can also just play Counterbalance though, and the RR is harder to support, so it's a wash.

    The faster decks considering it (Burn, Delver) probably can't afford to get cute, just jam it for value and hope to get 1-3 free spells from it. Delver could still run the 1-of Mystic Sanctuary. Those decks also sometimes have Counterbalance in the 75.

    That's going to be the biggest problem. The decks that can best use it have to evaluate whether they'd rather play a UU Counterbalance that's easier to cast with Islands and pitches to Force.

    Maybe some aggressive RG deck can use it creatively with Worldly Tutor.

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    Re: [MH3] Modern Horizions 3: Rotation Days Are Here Again

    As far as maintaining card neutral or even card positive, Mystic Sanctuary is fine, you fetch in response the the trigger and get a guaranteed spell, though what though?
    I guess floating a Lórien Revealed in response to a Force of Will is the dream scenario, but would you crack your fetch just to get a free Ponder? Once you're card negative to cast a free spell it's not free anymore, so unless the hoops jumped through are worth that extra effort, I don't think we're valuating the card the same way.
    Like sure, Show and Tell is card negative, but Emrakul. Reanimate is card negative, but Atraxa. You're on a RG deck with Worldly Tutor, what CMC spell do you see casting it in response, and what card are you getting? Some 2-3 drop? Off a 2 mana enchantment seems very low value.
    The benefit over Counterbalance is this is proactive instead of defensive and works in multiples. Decks that have a pile of spells they want to cast in just about any situation would benefit the most. Not just because Burn is red, the goal of the deck fits extremely well into what Powerbalance is offering.
    Optioning underwhelming lands just to cheese stuff to the top of the library involves your opponent playing along with what you're trying to do, and limits your options to CMCs they're already playing in the first place. If your deck is 1-2 CMC, then just casting the spells is the same value for no effort. If it's some kind of Bean breaker and your deck has Blightsteel to get them off Scion of Draco, well, now your deck has Blightsteel in it, what are we even doing?

    I'm not up to what Jeskai Control is now, I could definitely see the temptation to get a free Lórien Revealed off their Force, or maybe a cheeky Swords when they Ponder. If you're on SFM, then sneaking a Batterskull off a Force of Will or Kaldra off Murktide is live in conjunction with Brainstorm, but these are plays with existing, established options that require less setup and less failcases.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

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    Re: [MH3] Modern Horizions 3: Rotation Days Are Here Again

    This red enchantment seems really bad but I am interested in excuses to ban Sanctuary
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    Re: [MH3] Modern Horizions 3: Rotation Days Are Here Again

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateKing View Post
    As far as maintaining card neutral or even card positive, Mystic Sanctuary is fine, you fetch in response the the trigger and get a guaranteed spell, though what though?
    Top candidates are:
    1) Opponent Forces your spell, you put Force on top to counter back. Your spell resolves & opponent 2-for-1d (spent 2 cards on Force, you spent 1 on Powerbalance & still have it)
    2) Opponent Forces/Solitudes your threat, you put Lorien on top. Your threat is answered but you're way ahead on cards.
    3) Opponent plays 1cmc, free Brainstorm (also setting up future cmcs for better odds)

    Any URx deck can run those lines without jumping through hoops. Instant manipulation: 1 Mystic Sanctuary in the 60, 4 Brainstorm, 1-2 Surveil duals.

    You're not forced to crack for Ponder. Mystic Sanctuary never had to get Ponder unless you were topdecking and had literally nothing better to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateKing View Post
    I'm not up to what Jeskai Control is now, I could definitely see the temptation to get a free Lórien Revealed off their Force, or maybe a cheeky Swords when they Ponder. If you're on SFM, then sneaking a Batterskull off a Force of Will or Kaldra off Murktide is live in conjunction with Brainstorm, but these are plays with existing, established options that require less setup and less failcases.
    So I was picturing the Jeskai decks that were already optioning 1 Hall of Heliod's Generosity for stuff like Shark Typhoon. You wouldn't force a conditional land and extra enchantments just to support Powerbalance. But if a deck is already doing those shenanigans, Powerbalance slides in at low cost. Unfortunately you'd need to be 4c to put Beans on top with Heliod, and Beans outclasses most other draw engines (so it's hard to justify being non-Beans).

    Some builds already support Counterbalance (Predict). That's another easy shell to try it in without forcing.
    Last edited by FTW; 05-14-2024 at 02:14 PM.

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    Re: [MH3] Modern Horizions 3: Rotation Days Are Here Again

    There seem to be better option in URx, but what about burn, either SB or MD?
    You do not need more setup than fetches (already played), a one-mana leaning curve, and perhaps a one-of surveil dual.

  13. #93

    Re: [MH3] Modern Horizions 3: Rotation Days Are Here Again

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    https://i.redd.it/xu6vz9r4d40d1.jpeg

    ...nonland permanent cards in your graveyard have retrace ...

    This should be super good with 0 mana artifacts like Petal, Baubles and LED.
    I guess Life from the Loam combined with eggs could be a way to recycle lands and fill the graveyard and then Thassa's Oracle wins, but it's graveyard-dependent and a little tricky to bootstrap.

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    Re: [MH3] Modern Horizions 3: Rotation Days Are Here Again

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Top candidates are:
    1) Opponent Forces your spell, you put Force on top to counter back. Your spell resolves & opponent 2-for-1d (spent 2 cards on Force, you spent 1 on Powerbalance & still have it)
    2) Opponent Forces/Solitudes your threat, you put Lorien on top. Your threat is answered but you're way ahead on cards.
    3) Opponent plays 1cmc, free Brainstorm (also setting up future cmcs for better odds)

    Any URx deck can run those lines without jumping through hoops. Instant manipulation: 1 Mystic Sanctuary in the 60, 4 Brainstorm, 1-2 Surveil duals.

    You're not forced to crack for Ponder. Mystic Sanctuary never had to get Ponder unless you were topdecking and had literally nothing better to do.



    So I was picturing the Jeskai decks that were already optioning 1 Hall of Heliod's Generosity for stuff like Shark Typhoon. You wouldn't force a conditional land and extra enchantments just to support Powerbalance. But if a deck is already doing those shenanigans, Powerbalance slides in at low cost. Unfortunately you'd need to be 4c to put Beans on top with Heliod, and Beans outclasses most other draw engines (so it's hard to justify being non-Beans).

    Some builds already support Counterbalance (Predict). That's another easy shell to try it in without forcing.
    Counterbalance actually stops what your opponent is doing and is easier to set up and still sees basically no play. Why would I want to commit to double red to just do some random things? If my opponent casts some game breaking two drop against Counterbalance and I hit another Counterbalance, that can win me the game. What do I care if I just flip another stupid power balance and get to durdle some more while they go off?
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    Re: [MH3] Modern Horizions 3: Rotation Days Are Here Again

    Like Counterbalance is obviously the card that pairs better with any top manipulation and is legal

    The missing card in the Counter-Top strategy is Top, not Counterbalance

    Feels weird to have to say this tbh
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  16. #96
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    Re: [MH3] Modern Horizions 3: Rotation Days Are Here Again

    Quote Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin View Post
    Like Counterbalance is obviously the card that pairs better with any top manipulation and is legal

    The missing card in the Counter-Top strategy is Top, not Counterbalance

    Feels weird to have to say this tbh
    That goes without say. I already said above that it competes with Counterbalance in the same shells and Counterbalance is usually better (and sees play).

  17. #97
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    Re: [MH3] Modern Horizions 3: Rotation Days Are Here Again

    https://www.reddit.com/media?url=htt...f376d60d1.jpeg

    2WW
    Instant - Rare
    You may sacrifice a nontoken white creature rather than pay this spell's mana cost.
    Until end of turn, your life total can't change, and permanents you control gain hexproof and indestructible.

    . . . . can you just ad nauseum as much as you like with this?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    You sir are a ninja of fine quality.

  18. #98

    Re: [MH3] Modern Horizions 3: Rotation Days Are Here Again

    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post

    2WW
    Instant - Rare
    You may sacrifice a nontoken white creature rather than pay this spell's mana cost.
    Until end of turn, your life total can't change, and permanents you control gain hexproof and indestructible.

    . . . . can you just ad nauseum as much as you like with this?

    reddit images suck but so does this ancient forum source code.

    Saccing a whit creature to combo seems not like something one wants to do.
    This looks more like an "oh shit"-button so that people can keep overextending into wrath effects.

  19. #99

    Re: [MH3] Modern Horizions 3: Rotation Days Are Here Again

    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    https://www.reddit.com/media?url=htt...f376d60d1.jpeg

    2WW
    Instant - Rare
    You may sacrifice a nontoken white creature rather than pay this spell's mana cost.
    Until end of turn, your life total can't change, and permanents you control gain hexproof and indestructible.

    . . . . can you just ad nauseum as much as you like with this?
    You can

  20. #100

    Re: [MH3] Modern Horizions 3: Rotation Days Are Here Again

    Quote Originally Posted by dte View Post
    There seem to be better option in URx, but what about burn, either SB or MD?
    You do not need more setup than fetches (already played), a one-mana leaning curve, and perhaps a one-of surveil dual.
    I imagine that burn would sleeve up Eidolon of the Great Revel and Pyrostatic Pillar first.

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