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Thread: [SCD] Necrodominance

  1. #1

    [SCD] Necrodominance

    One of the Modern Horizons 3 cards is Necrodominance, a "fixed" version of Necropotence:
    Necrodominance BBB
    Legendary Enchantment

    Skip your draw step.

    At the beginning of your end step, you may pay any amount of life. If you do, draw that many cards.

    Your maximum hand size is five.

    If a card or token would be put into your graveyard from anywhere, exile it instead.
    This is weaker than Necropotence in some important ways, the most significant of which is probably that Necrodominance does no allow its controller to pay life in response to removal. Necrodominance also limits its controllers hand size, but that's probably not as big of a deal as people might think at first glance.

    Another notable difference between Necropotence and Necrodominance is that Necrodominance actually draws cards. So Sheoldred, the Apocalypse is an obvious synergy ( and draw hate is more of a liability).

    My understanding is that the were basically two flavors of Necropotence decks: combo decks that would use the massive card draw that Necropotence provides to find combo pieces, and more tempo oriented decks that would combine the massive card advantage that Necropotence provides with efficient threats.

    Regardless, Necrodominance provides potential for massive card advantage at a relatively modest life cost which is a fundamentally potent thing that can fit into a variety of game plans.

    For example, it should be quite potent in combination with effects like Smallpox or Collective Brutality that rob both players of resources, and cards like Chrome Mox or Dark Ritual that convert card advantage to speed. In many ways it should readily slot into a smallpox deck.

    Another option might be some kind of black/white scam deck. Ephemerate and Cloudshift will work with evoke creatures even if necrodominance is in play, and Solitude with flash and lifelink fits with the necrodominance pretty well.

    Madness has some decent synergy with Necrodominance since it partially works around the graveyard to exile replacement effect, overdrawing is a natural discard outlet, and necrodominance is a pretty solid top-deck when hellbent. The interactions with from-the-graveyard stuff like Vengevine and Ox of Agonas aren't ideal, but it still seems like Necrodominance can offer a lot of stuff that a Hollowvine/Madness deck might want.

    I'm trying to compose possible deck lists, but it's a little tricky to come up with card engines to complement the Necrodominance. This is an attempt at a smallpox kind of thing:


    18 Swamp

    4 Chrome Mox
    2 Dark Ritual

    4 Throughseize
    4 Nethergoyf

    4 Orcish Bowmasters
    4 Smallpox
    4 Dark Confidant
    4 Hymn to Tourach

    4 Necrodominance
    2 Liliana of the Veil

    4 Beseech the Mirror
    2 Sheoldred, the Apocalypse

  2. #2

    Re: [SCD] Necrodominance

    Necro can slot nicely into Pox but your list is not great. Start by cutting Nethergoyf, Confidant, Hymn, and Beeseech. Go to 4 Dark Ritual, which is your best opening card.

    You should be playing Grief/Unmask effects to convert the cards into velocity even if Grief is a nobo with the exile effect of Necro it still lets you strip a card for "free". When you're drawing so many cards this is where you want to be. You should be playing Wasteland in Pox and probably Saga.

    That said, the strongest Necro build is going to try and win in the end step after drawing the maximum number of cards. Such a deck is likely to be combined with Black and Red Rituals. There could be a cheeky Borne Upon a Wind version. Much testing is needed.

  3. #3
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    Re: [SCD] Necrodominance

    Keeping Beseech and adding 4 Leyline of the Void and 1-2 Helm of Obedience is also possible, since you can draw up and then next turn bargain the Necrodominance to Helm them.
    Even with the exile effect causing conflict, scam play patterns are resource heavy. Opening the game with Grief-Reanimate-Grief and then next turn Dark Ritual into Necrodominance (or same turn with a Chrome Mox) is going to be a challenge for anybody to contend with.

    But any excuse to play Smallpox has my interest.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

  4. #4

    Re: [SCD] Necrodominance

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Blood View Post
    ...
    That said, the strongest Necro build is going to try and win in the end step after drawing the maximum number of cards. Such a deck is likely to be combined with Black and Red Rituals. There could be a cheeky Borne Upon a Wind version. Much testing is needed.
    I like the idea, but I couldn't see how to make a same turn combo finish work, though that may well be because I lack imagination.

  5. #5
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    Re: [SCD] Necrodominance

    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    I like the idea, but I couldn't see how to make a same turn combo finish work, though that may well be because I lack imagination.
    What's a ritual that makes colorless? Float 6 and discard Emrakul, the World Anew to hand size.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

  6. #6
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    Re: [SCD] Necrodominance

    Nethergoyf has anti-synergy with the graveyard exile clause.

    I like this idea of Necro in a fair monoblack deck, like the old Necropotence control decks with Hymn and Hypnotic Spectre.

    With easy access to cards, life and mana will be the resources limiting velocity. Because of that, maybe Smallpox isn't the best approach. Smallpox constrains your own mana and life, limiting your velocity. Maybe it's better to just dump your hand faster?

    Sheoldred lifegain looks strong. Dark Ritual, Mox and Grief should help with mana velocity. Maybe the black Flare too. Can it sacrifice an Evoked Grief or a Bowmaster about to die?

    Partial fair monoblack strategy


    //Enchantments: 4
    4 Necrodominance

    //Fast Mana: 8
    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Dark Ritual

    //Creatures: 12
    4 Orcish Bowmasters
    4 Grief
    2 Opposition Agent
    2 Sheoldred, the Apocalypse

    //Spells: 10
    2 Cling to Dust
    4 Hymn to Tourach
    2 Flare of Malice
    2 Beseech the Mirror

    //Planeswalkers: 4
    4 Liliana of the Veil

    //Sideboard:
    4 Leyline of the Void
    1 Helm of Obedience
    2 Plague Engineer
    2 Powder Keg


    Is Consuming Corruption playable lifegain or too slow?

    Nighthawk Scavenger is tempting but probably too slow and has the Goyf problem.

  7. #7

    Re: [SCD] Necrodominance

    @FTW

    I'd venture to guess March of Wretched Sorrow is superior to Consuming Corruption because its yet another card that lets you convert excess cards into velocity while accomplishing the same things that Corruption does for half the mana.

    Does the deck want Lotus Petal? I really wish there was a black spirit guide so you could generate the first mana in the end step. I can't find any cards to replicate that in black unfortunately. Still, Petal is another way to generate fast mana and could prove worthy. I could honestly see going with the full suite of Chrome Mox, Mox Opal, Lotus Petal and lean into artifacts - maybe even Lion's Eye Diamond since dumping your hand is not really that big of a deal. You can crack LED in response to Necro and then use that mana on whatever you draw - which leads me to my final question...

    Does the deck want the Karn package? There are some very cuttable cards in your list to make room.

  8. #8

    Re: [SCD] Necrodominance

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Nethergoyf has anti-synergy with the graveyard exile clause.

    I like this idea of Necro in a fair monoblack deck, like the old Necropotence control decks with Hymn and Hypnotic Spectre.

    With easy access to cards, life and mana will be the resources limiting velocity. Because of that, maybe Smallpox isn't the best approach. Smallpox constrains your own mana and life, limiting your velocity. Maybe it's better to just dump your hand faster?

    Sheoldred lifegain looks strong. Dark Ritual, Mox and Grief should help with mana velocity. Maybe the black Flare too. Can it sacrifice an Evoked Grief or a Bowmaster about to die?

    Partial fair monoblack strategy


    //Enchantments: 4
    4 Necrodominance

    //Fast Mana: 8
    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Dark Ritual

    //Creatures: 12
    4 Orcish Bowmasters
    4 Grief
    2 Opposition Agent
    2 Sheoldred, the Apocalypse

    //Spells: 10
    2 Cling to Dust
    4 Hymn to Tourach
    2 Flare of Malice
    2 Beseech the Mirror

    //Planeswalkers: 4
    4 Liliana of the Veil

    //Sideboard:
    4 Leyline of the Void
    1 Helm of Obedience
    2 Plague Engineer
    2 Powder Keg


    Is Consuming Corruption playable lifegain or too slow?

    Nighthawk Scavenger is tempting but probably too slow and has the Goyf problem.
    Nighthawk looks at your opponents GY only so it actually synergizes with your discard package.

    You should consider running answers to Bowmaster.

  9. #9

    Re: [SCD] Necrodominance

    Here is a more unfair list that will probably be interesting (building off Beseech Storm):

    /fast mana

    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Mox Opal

    /disruption

    3 Duress
    4 Thoughtseize
    4 Grief
    4 Orcish Bowmasters

    /engines

    4 Beseech the Mirror
    4 Necrodominance
    1 Sheoldred, the Apocalypse
    1 Song of Creation
    1 Tendrils of Agony

    /lands

    5 Swamp
    1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    4 Urza's Saga
    4 Vault of Whispers

    /sideboard

    4 Leyline of the Void
    1 Helm of Obedience
    2 Feed the Swarm
    2 Surge Node
    1 Haywire Mite
    2 March of Wretched Sorrow
    1 Empty the Warrens
    2 Flare of Malice


    Song plays nice with Necro. Beseech grabs whatever missing pieces you have. You can also build it with a sideboard that transforms into a semi-fair plan for sideboard games.

  10. #10
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    Re: [SCD] Necrodominance

    It looks strong in Black Saga storm. Do you just run the 1 Gaea's Will at that point?

    For the fair strategy, Nighthawk and March both look promising. There's the lifegain to keep the deck going like old Necro Drain control.


    //Enchantments: 4
    4 Necrodominance

    //Creatures: 13
    4 Orcish Bowmasters
    4 Exsanguinator Cavalry
    4 Grief
    1 Sheoldred, the Apocalypse

    //Spells: 14
    4 Thoughtseize
    3 Hymn to Tourach
    3 Beseech the Mirror
    2 Flare of Malice
    2 March of Wretched Sorrow

    //Artifacts: 2
    2 The One Ring

    //Fast Mana: 12
    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Dark Ritual

    //Lands: 15
    2 Fell the Profane
    4 Vault of Whispers
    1 Castle Locthwain
    8 Swamp

    //Sideboard: 15
    4 Leyline of the Void
    1 Helm of Obedience
    2 Ratchet Bomb
    2 Plague Engineer
    2 Opposition Agent
    2 Liliana of the Veil
    2 Duress


    The One Ring may be a nice complementary life-for-card control draw engine. Both pitch to Beseech when you don't want them anymore.

    Enemy Bowmasters is killed by Bowmasters, March, and all the removal.

    Edit: Cut Liliana for Thoughtseize. Exsanguinator Cavalry is the better lifelink creature too.
    Last edited by FTW; 06-15-2024 at 02:38 PM.

  11. #11

    Re: [SCD] Necrodominance

    Feels wrong to not play Thoughtseize. That list is basically just auto lose to combo unless you have Grief.

    Feels like there's way too many expensive cards. Need to trim some of the fun stuff for 1 mana discards. Scavanger is probably too cute.

    Still thing Saga would be excellent in the fair list also. You can put Shadowspear as a fetch target for more life gain.

  12. #12

    Re: [SCD] Necrodominance

    Necro seems quite strong in a combo deck with Borne Upon a Wind and Valakut Awakening. You play Necro, move into your end step, draw 19 kinds, play Borne and combo off. Valakut is used to trade unwanted cards for (hopefully) better ones. You can see the deck in action here:
    Last edited by Gunseng; 06-15-2024 at 02:05 PM.

  13. #13
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    Re: [SCD] Necrodominance

    That's just busted.

    5-0 10-1. Almost all turn 1 wins protected. The 1 loss was winnable with a different decision path on the mull to 3.

    Tony's had a lot of brews that can turn 1 sometimes if you win the Force check, but this is just on another level. Necro successfully broken on day 1 of MH3.

    "Quite strong" is understating. This deck is a trophy-printing machine converting 30 minute blocks of time into prize. Underworld Breach was never that explosively consistent in any of our development, and that got banned in 1 month. This is more like Hulk-Flash levels of turn 1s.
    Last edited by FTW; 06-15-2024 at 02:25 PM.

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    Re: [SCD] Necrodominance

    Tony's decklist if you don't want to watch the vid


    //Initial Mana: 24
    4 Vault of Whispers
    3 Gemstone Mine
    4 Simian Spirit Guide
    4 Elvish Spirit Guide
    4 Summoner's Pact
    4 Lotus Petal
    1 Chrome Mox

    //Rituals: 13
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Cabal Ritual
    4 Manamorphose
    1 Wild Cantor

    //Necro: 8
    4 Necrodominance
    4 Beseech the Mirror

    //Enablers: 6
    3 Borne Upon A Wind
    3 Valakut Awakening

    //Wincon: 1
    1 Tendrils of Agony

    //Protection: 8
    4 Pact of Negation
    4 Chancellor of the Annex

    //Sideboard: 15
    4 Leyline of Sanctity
    2 Veil of Summer
    3 Nature's Claim
    1 Foundation Breaker
    1 Valakut Awakening
    3 Chrome Mox
    1 Mox Opal


    SB may need some work. It has 0 answers to a resolved hatebear. But this deck has such a high turn 1 rate and so much turn 0 interaction that opponent even resolving a hatebear may never happen.

    The format's going to have to really up the turn 0 answers to even compete. Scaminator should put up a decent fight with 4 Force 4 Grief 4 Daze, but losing the die roll cancels most of those so they need FoN or Mindbreak in the board too.
    Last edited by FTW; 06-20-2024 at 10:51 PM.

  15. #15

    Re: [SCD] Necrodominance

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Blood View Post
    That said, the strongest Necro build is going to try and win in the end step after drawing the maximum number of cards. Such a deck is likely to be combined with Black and Red Rituals. There could be a cheeky Borne Upon a Wind version. Much testing is needed.
    Glad this came true...I still don't think its going to end up being a real deck but who knows.

  16. #16

    Re: [SCD] Necrodominance

    On a slightly off topic note I've been playing the following in Timeless. It plays like fair Necro control and reminds me of the Drain Life version from decades ago:

    4 Dark Ritual

    4 Thoughtseize
    4 Grief
    3 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Orcish Bowmaster

    4 March of Wretched Sorrow
    3 Fatal Push
    4 Consuming Corruption

    1 Demonic Tutor
    3 Necrodominance
    3 Necropotence
    3 Sheoldred

    11 Swamp
    1 Overgrown Tomb
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    4 Polluted Delta

    Sideboard:

    2 Cling to Dust
    1 Fatal Push
    1 Deathrite Shaman
    2 Sheoldred's Edict
    3 Liliana of the Veil
    4 Ashiok, Dream Render
    2 Weather the Storm

    I think something like this can easily be ported to Legacy but I'm not sure the meta is going to be as kind to it since its somewhat slow and this deck preys on creature-based aggro the most, which you can farm by slow rolling Necro and using all your removal to deplete resources. Its basically impossible for aggro to win when you trade cards 1-1 until everyone is out of resources and then you play Necro and draw a new hand, especially considering most of the deck's removal gains life. It's very common to gain 15-20 life per game without even counting the retarded stuff that happens with Necrodominance and Sheoldred in play (e.g. draw 10 cards gain 10 life pitch cards to March gain another 8 life).

    Against unfair decks I usually just aggressively mull to some type of broken hand, which is incredibly common. Against control, discard them until the coast is clear to land a Necro and then they will run out of resources. Against Scam, which is infesting the Timeless Meta at the moment, just hope to be on the play and ritual out a Necro but most people are just playing substandard copy-paste lists from the Modern deck that was banned so its favorable.

    I have found its best to have at least 1 mana up when going to end step so you can pitch cards to March you would otherwise discard to hand-size and regain all the life you spent. That resource trick alone makes it very difficult for fair decks to have a real chance.

    Funnily enough the sideboard so far has been almost pointless. Most common boarding patterns is -4 Thoughtseize +1 Deathrite/Cling/Push/Edict against aggro; -3 Push +1 Cling/Lily/Deathrite against non-creature decks. It's also kind of amusing to me when the opponent uses a Flute/Needle on one Necro and you just play the other one. I put in Ashiok to try to cheese certain decks but so far that hasn't come up.

    Any thoughts on what a Legacy version might look like? Obviously starts with cutting the banned cards (i.e. Deathrite, Demonic, old Necro). Does it make sense to go UB to have access to pitch permission?

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    Re: [SCD] Necrodominance

    That sort of Necro-Drain "fair" control is what I had in mind above too. That strategy looks more viable in Timeless.

    I agree with you that it would need at least 4 Grief 4 Thoughtseize to have game against combo. For Legacy maybe Duress or Unmask in the SB too.

    March & Corruption seem very good at the Drain Life role, getting more life for cards. Corruption might be too slow for Legacy. March should be good. You can always end step it for B and pitch extra cards you don't want for +2 life (lets you dig more greedily).

    Exsanguinator Cavalry seems like a good lifelink creature/finisher. The Blood tokens can rummage extra lands into cards when you don't have a draw step. They're also artifact token fodder for Beseech.

    Flare of Malice also seems good. It's another free spell. It's instant, so you can sacrifice an Evoked Grief or any dying black creature to free-Edict them. It's like any other "sacrifice dying creature for value" card, except it's free so you can do it tapped out at any time.

    Since Legacy doesn't have both Necros or Demonic Tutor, you'd need Beseech the Mirror or a backup draw engine. The One Ring isn't terrible. It also trades life for cards and costs 4. Otherwise you can build around Beseech, using Beseech to reduce expensive cards to 1-ofs.


    //Creatures: 13
    4 Orcish Bowmasters
    4 Exsanguinator Cavalry
    4 Grief
    1 Sheoldred, the Apocalypse

    //Enchantments: 4
    4 Necrodominance

    //Spells: 16
    4 Thoughtseize
    3 March of Wretched Sorrow
    2 Fatal Push
    2 Duress
    2 Flare of Malice
    3 Beseech the Mirror

    //Planeswalkers: 1
    1 Karn, the Great Creator

    //Mana: 26
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Chrome Mox
    2 Lotus Petal
    2 Fell the Profane
    4 Vault of Whispers
    1 Castle Locthwain
    9 Swamp


    Maybe with enough fast mana, turn 1 discard, and pitch spells it can compete in Legacy.

    Another possibility would be to play BU control with Energy Field (lol can't die with Necro). Then you can run Force, Grief, Thoughtseize to protect your enchantments and grind out a win behind a pillow fort.

  18. #18

    Re: [SCD] Necrodominance

    That's a good starting list and I agree probably less of a viable strategy in Legacy. IMO, the best card Legacy has that Timeless doesn't for this archetype is Saga so I'd want to test with that.

    As a starting point , I would probably go:

    -4 Calvary (I just don't believe in this card)
    -2 Fell the Prophane (not interested in life loss effects as that basically reads draw 3 less cards or play tapped)
    -1 Castle (too slow and again life loss)
    -1 Karn (I wanna test a Karn version but not as a 1 of)

    +1 Shelly (card is too good and wins on its own if not answered)
    +4 Saga (excellent plan b)
    +1 Shadowspear (lifegain)
    +2 Urborg (needed if Saga is in deck)

    If not going with the Saga plan I would go:

    +4 Cabal Ritual (more chances for busted turn 1s)
    +2 Duress (the primary play pattern of this deck is to destroy their hand and then refill yours with Necro)
    +2 Karn (the other plan b test option)

    Going back to Tony's list, I take what I said back. I watched his video and the deck is completely bonkers and will result in banning Necro. Summoner's Pact and Valakut were cards I did not consider but that's what puts it over the top in terms of consistency. That deck really fits the old joke that the early game is the mulligan and the late game is your first turn.

    I feel like the list I've been playing in Timeless is also going to get restricted as well. It's just way too good at playing a fair and unfair game at the same time and nothing else can even remotely keep up on either speed or resources. A deck should not be able to simultaneously go faster, be more disruptive, and have more access to resources than the remainder of the field.

  19. #19

    Re: [SCD] Necrodominance

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Another possibility would be to play BU control with Energy Field (lol can't die with Necro). Then you can run Force, Grief, Thoughtseize to protect your enchantments and grind out a win behind a pillow fort.
    That sounds fun. I've also been wanting to try the new Frog.

  20. #20
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    Re: [SCD] Necrodominance

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Blood View Post
    Going back to Tony's list, I take what I said back. I watched his video and the deck is completely bonkers and will result in banning Necro. Summoner's Pact and Valakut were cards I did not consider but that's what puts it over the top in terms of consistency. That deck really fits the old joke that the early game is the mulligan and the late game is your first turn.
    Yeah. People may take a while to realize how broken that deck is, but then it should take off. Wizards did not expect "draw 30 in end step, flash Tendrils".

    As someone who tested Underworld Breach extensively in early development, Tony's Necro deck is more broken. I ran the %s on T1s vs T2s vs T3s on many iterations of that deck. There were fundamental limits assembling a 3-card combo and protecting it, so there had to be a tradeoff between speed and protection, which gave other decks a fighting chance to interact. Necro doesn't have to do that. It just needs to put Necro in play. Tony's reported T1 rates blow that out of the water. This combo is faster and harder to disrupt than a combo that got banned in 1 month.

    It's beatable with enough hate. But the rate of T1 kills & protected T1 kills is obscene. This is Hulk-Flash tier, where a big chunk of relevant decisions happen before the 2nd player's turn 1.
    Last edited by FTW; 06-17-2024 at 01:39 PM.

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