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Thread: [SCD] Nadu, Winged Wisdom

  1. #1
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    [SCD] Nadu, Winged Wisdom

    Watching this card go off is nuts.

    1 Lion Sash
    4 Nadu, Winged Wisdom
    4 Noble Hierarch
    4 Stoneforge Mystic
    1 Tamiyo, Inquisitive Student
    1 Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath
    4 Ponder
    3 Prismatic Ending
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Force of Will
    1 March of Swirling Mist
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    1 Cryptic Coat
    1 Kaldra Compleat
    2 Shuko
    1 Dress Down
    1 Field of the Dead
    4 Flooded Strand
    1 Hedge Maze
    1 Karakas
    1 Meticulous Archive
    4 Misty Rainforest
    1 Mystic Sanctuary
    1 Savannah
    1 Spara's Headquarters
    2 Tropical Island
    2 Tundra
    1 Wasteland

    Sideboard
    1 Assimilation Aegis
    1 Collective Resistance
    1 Containment Priest
    1 Damping Sphere
    2 Endurance
    2 Hydroblast
    2 Lavinia, Azorius Renegade
    1 Life from the Loam
    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 Veil of Summer

    This is sort of a fair build, but hitting Field of the Dead and then getting a Zombie and 2 more live flips that might make more Zombies is disgustingly unfair.

    You could keep Bant colors and go GSZ for Nadu plus others, since Dryad Arbor gets flipped into play but then is a live target for Shuko equip. Could also go all in and add Nomads en-Kor for instant speed flip-the-deck value. Starts sharing a lot of deck slots with Cephalid Breakfast, but isn't dedic for a game loss.ated to the combo. Just flip a dozen or so times and you have a fair board that wins against most of the field. No Surgical or Dress Down to humble the Thassa's Oracle. Plus I haven't seen Breakfast around in a while, so maybe whatever has been putting downward pressure on it isn't relevant to this deck and with a few adjustments this becomes the fair/combo Bant deck?

    Any thoughts?
    Last edited by PirateKing; 06-10-2024 at 02:02 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

  2. #2

    Re: [SCD] Nadu, Winged Wisdom

    Bristly Bill, Spine Sower
    {1}{G}
    Legendary Creature — Plant Druid
    Landfall — Whenever a land enters the battlefield under your control, put a +1/+1 counter on target creature.
    {3}{G}{G}: Double the number of +1/+1 counters on each creature you control.
    “Wake up, little ones. There’s a new day ahead.”
    2/2

    Lets you get a targeting creature with gsz.

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    Re: [SCD] Nadu, Winged Wisdom

    That build looks pretty strong. It's a standard Bant shell with the usual staples, SFM package. The Nadu package only takes up 6-7 slots: Nadu, Shuko, March. So even if the combo fails, you're not using up much space.

    2 Teferi might be good

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    Re: [SCD] Nadu, Winged Wisdom

    It's not my list but one that did demonstrate the power of the card, especially when it flipped Field of the Dead that triggered and got more flips and more zombies.
    So there's definitely something to do with the card, I'm just not sure if it's a splash into a fair deck or leans in as a combo enabler
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

  5. #5

    Re: [SCD] Nadu, Winged Wisdom

    Feel like it wants a Concordant Crossroads or something to give everyone haste if you're going on the zombie plan.

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    Re: [SCD] Nadu, Winged Wisdom



    Here's a video from BoshNRoll, which should be the list from the OP. Nadu is just a really, really messed up card and I wouldn't be surprised if it gets banned down the line.

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    2 Teferi might be good
    Doomwake played 3 Teferis in his Modern list. Should be good, as it stops inference while going off.

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    Re: [SCD] Nadu, Winged Wisdom

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    Here's a video from BoshNRoll, which should be the list from the OP. Nadu is just a really, really messed up card and I wouldn't be surprised if it gets banned down the line.
    He put Field of the Dead by accident, not intentionally? Too funny. That seemed like the point of the card.

    The Nadu combo is strong. But cheaper Cephalid Illusionist wins the game even more decisively in those same board states. If Breakfast is legal, is Nadu bannable? Maybe not. Maybe it's an acceptable power level.

    Overall the Bant shell is strong:
    Force
    Brainstorm
    Ponder
    Swords
    Prismatic
    Uro
    blue fetches
    Tundra
    Tropical Island

    It's such a stable and flexible interactive shell that you can insert random 2-card combos and get a powerful deck.

    Add Dreadnought + Dress Down + Doorkeeper Thrull and you get a Dreadnought deck that's been winning a lot online.

    Add Zirda, the Dawnwaker companion + Basalt Monolith + mana sink and you get the most consistent iteration of the deck that got Zirda pre-emptively banned.

    Add Oko + Astrolabe + Ice-Fang and you get a dominant control deck that got Oko and Astrolabe both banned.

    Add Nadu + Stoneforge package + Shuko and this deck looks good.

    Fundamentally the Bant shell is strong. Add cheap 2-card combos costing 1-3 mana and get a high-powered deck.

    It's like UR with Ragavan, DHA, etc. The UR shell is so consistent that adding any cheap 1-2 mana value engine pushes it over the edge.

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    Re: [SCD] Nadu, Winged Wisdom

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    The Nadu combo is strong. But cheaper Cephalid Illusionist wins the game even more decisively in those same board states. If Breakfast is legal, is Nadu bannable? Maybe not. Maybe it's an acceptable power level.
    CI is cheaper and might be better in certain board states, but if you can't go off with Kor creatures, then the sorcery speed of Shuko is going to fuck it in a world of Bowmasters. And it has the additional weakness of GY hate, besides being a shitty 1/1 for two mana on its own.

    Nadu is the far better stand-alone card as it's a fat 3/4 flyer for 3 mana that draws you a card minimum if your opponent tries to interact with it. You can also increase the effective Nadu count by running GSZ, depending on how you want to build your deck.

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    Re: [SCD] Nadu, Winged Wisdom

    If the goal is combo then Breakfast seems the way to go.
    This seems more psuedo-combo, like just getting 4 activations before it eats a removal (5 activations then) is a powerful enough momentum swing.
    You don't need to go through your whole deck to win, that's just a possibility if you get good hits. But the consistent goal should be winning, not styling on the opponent.
    There will be some optimal number of flips that we should build towards with untapped lands and 1 CMC creatures to help fuel the chain without losing sight of the goal.
    No point in passing the turn with an empty library and an army of Birds of Paradise out. So the combo in balance with something else, Uro or whatever.
    Field of the Dead is a good card for this interaction, but as others have said without haste or instant speed targeting you're forced to pass the turn. Hopefully you're rolled up with interaction, but we all know there will be games you pass and lose on their turn.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

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    Re: [SCD] Nadu, Winged Wisdom

    Nadu's better as a standalone threat and strong in that Bant shell. Nadu has it's own niche and will see play. I'm just speaking to the comments about a Nadu ban. That's premature.

    In those games where Bosh N Roll did really broken things with Nadu, it's because the game had already gotten to a point where opponent couldn't interact and any 2-card creature-based sorcery speed combo would win. Field of the Dead + dorks still needs you to pass the turn.

    It's a good card, but it's not more broken than Breakfast combo or Witherbloom Apprentice, so it shouldn't be bannable.

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    Re: [SCD] Nadu, Winged Wisdom

    It won't get banned with that attitude lol
    Does a deck like this want Urza's Saga?
    It can find Shuko, but getting one or two to flip off Nadu and make some buff dudes might be good too.
    More targets for Nadu but might be too mana intensive if you have multiple Sagas upticking, and once you put in something like Ancient Tomb to help I fear we've missed the point.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

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    Re: [SCD] Nadu, Winged Wisdom

    Working on this more streamlined version.


    //Creatures: 14
    4 Delighted Halfling
    4 Stoneforge Mystic
    1 Bristly Bill, Spine Sower
    4 Nadu, Winged Wisdom
    1 Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath

    //Spells: 20
    4 Force of Will
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    3 Green Sun's Zenith
    1 Prismatic Ending

    //Equipment: 3
    1 Shuko
    1 Lion Sash
    1 Kaldra Compleat

    //Planeswalkers: 3
    3 Teferi, Time Raveler

    //Lands: 20
    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Misty Rainforest
    2 Tropical Island
    1 Tundra
    1 Savannah
    1 Meticulous Archive
    1 Hedge Maze
    1 Spara's Headquarters
    1 Snow-Covered Island
    1 Snow-Covered Forest
    1 Karakas
    1 Shifting Woodland
    1 Field of the Dead

    //Sideboard: 15
    1 Lavinia, Azorius Renegade
    1 Kataki, War's Wage
    1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
    1 Gaddock Teeg
    1 Outland Liberator
    1 Sylvan Safekeeper
    2 Endurance
    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 Veil of Summer
    2 Hydroblast


    I tried to shave on redundant cards and play versatile cards that can pivot from combo to control. The manabase should be a little more resilient against mana denial and has more names for Field of the Dead.

    Nadu combos with Bill, Shuko, or Sylvan Safekeeper

    GSZ finds Nadu, Bill, and Safekeeper. SFM finds Shuko.

    Halfling makes Nadu, Uro, Bill, Teferi, and some SB tech uncounterable. Like Hierarch, you can ramp into T2 Teferi/Nadu, except without worrying about Daze or Bowmasters. The 1/2 body is slightly more impressive at carrying Shuko or Bill counters.

    Teferi protects the sorcery-speed equip interactions on your turn. Between Teferi, Veil, Nadu, Leovold and Safekeeper, there's a lot of protection against targeted creature removal.
    Last edited by FTW; 06-12-2024 at 12:44 AM.

  13. #13

    Re: [SCD] Nadu, Winged Wisdom

    If you are going GSZ and Field of the Dead, I feel like Dryad Arbor should be in the deck somewhere. I would probably run it over Bristly Bill, Spine Sower. In addition to the normal uses with GSZ, it gets flipped into play off of Nadu and can then be used for 2 more activations right away, or, if you draw into a GSZ off of Nadu, you can get it out of your deck for G and continue activating.

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    Re: [SCD] Nadu, Winged Wisdom

    In addition or Dryad Arbor off GSZ I think a single Life From the Loam would do good here, somewhere. Not sure what yet, but your list FTW is what I had in mind.
    What did you want to do with the Shifting Woodlands? Like a redundant Nadu or Shuko if one is dead, you just tap 4 mana and then make the missing piece and flip 18 cards?
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

  15. #15

    Re: [SCD] Nadu, Winged Wisdom

    Springheart Nantuko is another potential thing to fetch with GSZ.

    I do also wonder if you want more rendundancy in targetting effects than 1 Shuko and 1 Bristly Bill.

    Finding the right mix of cards is always going to be a bit tricky.

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    Re: [SCD] Nadu, Winged Wisdom

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateKing View Post
    In addition or Dryad Arbor off GSZ I think a single Life From the Loam would do good here, somewhere. Not sure what yet, but your list FTW is what I had in mind.
    What did you want to do with the Shifting Woodlands? Like a redundant Nadu or Shuko if one is dead, you just tap 4 mana and then make the missing piece and flip 18 cards?
    That land slot was originally Dryad Arbor. I changed it to Shifting Woodland as a test, for a few reasons:

    Arbor has a giant Bowmasters target (especially with Halfling over Hierarch)

    Woodland can copy either Shuko or Nadu from the graveyard to go off. I think that's better than running a 2nd Shuko, which is weak when you draw both copies. Delirium should be easy with 6 card types in the deck, especially if Shuko is killed.

    Woodland can also attack as Uro (instead of Escaping a summon-sick Uro, saving GY resources).

    If Woodland is bad, it can go back to Dryad Arbor or Boseiju, Who Endures.

    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    I do also wonder if you want more rendundancy in targetting effects than 1 Shuko and 1 Bristly Bill.

    Finding the right mix of cards is always going to be a bit tricky.
    Finding the balance is hard. In a pure-combo build, you'd run more targeting effects. The goal with this build was to be able to play a strong Bant midrange game not dependent on the combo. I think that's where Nadu will shine. Breakfast is a better pure combo, but Nadu can pivot better into a fair game.

    Then the goal is to minimize slots that are bad in a fair game. I chose only 1 Shuko and 1 Bill, but they are tutorable with GSZ and Stoneforge. If they get killed, Shifting Woodland makes a backup copy or Endurance shuffles them back into the deck.

    To avoid combo pieces needlessly dying the first time, there are ways to put them into play uncounterably or protect them from removal (Veil, Teferi, Halfling, Force). Those protection cards also pivot better into a fair game imho. There are different ways to approach the build. The goal here was to minimize narrow slots and present a strong fair game.
    Last edited by FTW; 06-12-2024 at 09:46 PM.

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    Re: [SCD] Nadu, Winged Wisdom

    I agree. The idea was to out-fair the fair decks by jumping ahead in cards in hand land land drops with cards that aren't critically bad on their own. If you go crazy and flip your whole deck and pass with lethal and they just Grapeshot you for 20, well that's the risk. The tradeoff with going deep into the combo means drawing Narcomoeba and other garbage cards for the opportunity to just win turn 2 or 3. We're not talking about those kinds of decks, this is a fair deck that generates subcritical combo gamestate advantages.

    Pre-War Formalwear gets back every creature we'd play, but I don't know where to make room. I think it would also elicit a trigger from Nadu, but I'm not certain. The Shifting Woodlands tech might be better since it can be either the creature or the enchantment.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

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    Re: [SCD] Nadu, Winged Wisdom

    I think it doesn't trigger Nadu. It targets a "creature card in graveyard", but creatures only have the ability on the battlefield. They won't have the ability at the time of targetting. The attach part doesn't target.

    Sevinne's Reclamation or Court of Ardenvale would also return everything, including Teferi & Shuko & lands. Formalwear is tutorable with Stoneforge, but otherwise one of the others might be better. Sevinne's or Court could also cover the role of Loam, conserving space.

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    Re: [SCD] Nadu, Winged Wisdom

    That's true. If Pre-War Formalwear doesn't trigger, then it's not worth considering.

    With Shifting Woodland tech though, Loam might being doing extra duty that betrays a one to one comparison with Sevinne's Rec or Court. Gets back the Shifting Woodland and then dredges to find the target for activation. Probably impossibly close either way.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

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    Re: [SCD] Nadu, Winged Wisdom

    Yeah they all deserve testing.

    I'd tilt towards trying 1 Sevinne's first (returns everything, best tempo at threatening the combo, flashback returns both pieces at once). Loam 2nd (interaction with Woodland is good but slower). Court last (grindy but worst tempo and Monarch can backfire). It's close though.

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