Is it possible to make a competitive Tribal deck with ... Wizards ?
Let's see.
Tribal decks usually have some "Lord" creatures increasing other creatures' Power and Toughness to build around.
Wizard Lords like to do something "extra" ...
Lords : 6
4x Harmonic Prodigy
The card at the center of this deck.
Triggering abilities an additional time can be significantly more powerful than a simple +1/+1.
1x Veyran, Voice of Duality
Basically a fifth Prodigy.
1x Balmor, Battlemage Captain
Basically a sixth Prodigy that can boost all your creatures in play and add Trample.
And, it's a Flyer.
The Instant & Sorcery package : 23
Staples to trigger your Wizards off of :
4x Brainstorm, 4x Lightning Bolt, 3x Ponder and 2x Brazen Borrower//Petty Theft
4x Galvanic Discharge
This is a card waiting to be discovered imo.
It cannot target your opponent, only creatures and Planeswalkers but it's mighty good at what it does.
T1, play a Galvanic Discharge to remove a Hierarch or Mother for example and you need spend only 1 Energy Counter - 2 left.
With your next Discharge you can already take out a 5-Toughness creature for 1 mana.
You have an answer now to those pesky 4/4+ constructs.
4x Daze
Excellent early counter but usually losing steam quickly but in this deck it still has its use later on as it can trigger your Wizards while forcing your opponent to keep a mana open.
2x Shore Up
This card offers a lot for just 1 mana.
- instant speed
- just 1 mana
- P/T boost ( possibly multiple times )
- counter to spot removal due to gaining Hexproof
- Surprise defender due to untap.
- and all kinds of triggers off casting an instant.
The "other" Wizards : 13
They all have good abilities triggering off instants and sorceries.
Multiplying those triggers with the Lords puts them over the top.
4x Slickshot Show-Off
Flying, Haste and +2/+0 per trigger until EOT.
This Wizard has evasion, can hit fast and pretty hard.
4x Electrostatic Infantry
This Wizard can hoard +1/+1 counters in bunches in a hurry.
And he has Trample !
3x Snapcaster Mage
We know he's good.
How about casting not one ... but TWO cards from you graveyard ?
Your GY funtions as a secondary Hand with no hand limit here.
Get your Galvanic Discharge back for more Energy Counters or Shore Up again ...
1x Kitsa, Otterball Elite
Vigilance allows him to consistently move through your deck at a fast pace while being a Wizard with Prowess triggers offers offensive/defensive possibilities.
Particularly nice with the untap ability of Shore Up being able to draw/discard twice in a turn.
1x Tamiyo, Inquisitive Student//Tamiyo, Seasoned Scholar
Tamiyo can potentially create multiple clues at once and as a Planeswalker get spells back from the GY.
I considered adding Black for Inquisition of Kozilek, Surgical Extraction and that fantastic black Wizard Dark Confidant
because the Confidant's draw can trigger multiple times during upkeep but the life loss would probably be just too penalizing.
Looking forward to feedback.
"Wizards"
//CC1 : 18
4 Tamiyo, Inquisitive Student // Tamiyo, Seasoned Scholar
4 Brainstorm
4 Galvanic Discharge
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Shore Up
//CC2 : 21
4 Daze
4 Electrostatic Infantry
4 Harmonic Prodigy
4 Slickshot Show-Off
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Kitsa, Otterball Elite
1 Balmor, Battlemage Captain
//CC3 : 3
2 Brazen Borrower // Petty Theft
1 Veyran, Voice of Duality
//Lands : 18
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Volcanic Island
3 Polluted Delta
3 Island
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Mountain
Last edited by Borg; 09-10-2024 at 04:32 AM.
I like the idea.
Tamiyo, Inquisitive Student is the strongest 1cmc Wizard and could be 3-4 copies. Doubling Clues forces opponent to remove Tamiyo immediately, which diverts removal from your 2cmc plays. Psychic Frog decks already do that.
Galvanic Discharge is seeing some competitive play in UWr energy control (with Wrath of the Skies). It's better than Bolt against Psychic Frog and Nethergoyf because you only choose how much energy & damage on resolution. If opponent wants to respond to grow their creature out of Bolt range, they must do it BEFORE you pay energy. If they do nothing, you kill their creature. If they spend cards to protect their creature, you can choose to pay 0 energy and save it for something else. In the current meta, that makes it better than Lightning Bolt. Tune the Narrative cheaply adds more energy.
I see 2 directions you could take this:
1) UR Prowess aggro. Doubling Prowess triggers ends the game quickly. Soul-Scar Mage, Dragon's Rage Channeler, Stormchaser Mage/Stormcatch Mentor, Slickshot Show-Off, Electrostatic Infantry, Kitsa, Otterball Elite, Balmor, and Harmonic Prodigy have all improved the quality of Prowess creatures. (unfortunately Sprite Dragon and Monastery Mentor are the wrong creature types). Add a few burn spells, cantrips, and free counters and you could race decks trying to win by slower card advantage (Tamiyo, Psychic Frog). Doubled Prowess also gives you a more realistic chance of interacting with a blocking Frog or Goyf.
2) URx midrange value with Snapcaster Mage, Tamiyo, etc.
The 2nd direction seems more competitive and lets you play better cards. The problem is it doesn't want a high creature count, so lord effects will often have nothing to interact with.
The aggro direction has better synergy for Harmonic Prodigy. But then it's also relying on synergy, playing fewer standalone "good cards". Maybe you want Temur Battle Rage to break combat, protecting your threat with 4 Daze 4 Force of Will?
Edit: If you splash green you could just play Berserk and Legolas's Quick Reflexes, which could be amazing here.
Last edited by FTW; 09-09-2024 at 02:59 PM.
Hi FTW, thanks again for the feedback,
Legolas's Quick Reflexes would indeed fit in nicely and it's an upgrade over Shore up alright
but adding Green should offer me at least 1 very good Wizard to add to the mix as well imo to be worth the splash.
I only see Nadu, Winged Wisdom as a contender and that is already in the 3 CC category where I would be more looking for a strong 2 CC addition.
An additional obstacle is that it would not be easy to pull of the last part of the Legolas card : tapping your creature to deal damage.
Kitsa, Otterball Elite has no problem with that but every other creature only taps to attack,
meaning I would have to play Legolas's Quick Reflexes before attacking, then tap the creature to attack, taking away all the surprise of the card and wasting the Untap part.
If the opponent removes the creature in response that puts me at a severe disadvantage.
Upping the count of Tamiyo seems like a good thing to do though, for the reasons you mentioned.
I'll update the opening build accordingly.
Legolas's Quick Reflexes is too pushed for that to be a problem - it has Split Second and gives Hexproof, so there's basically no window for the opponent to do anything about it.Originally Posted by Borg
Split Second Hexproof.
LQR doesn't need the element of surprise. You can play it first, not only respond to opponent. It doesn't need a tap ability either.
Even without any tap ability it can do many things:
- Cast before you attack, give creature Hexproof, trigger prowess, and "when this attacks, destroy target creature"
- Cast when opponent attacks to untap and block, trigger prowess, opponent cannot remove you
- Counter removal spell on creature
It's better with a tap ability, but it's also just strong with aggro grow creatures.
Edit: Deeproot Champion is green, though weaker than the red one.
Last edited by FTW; 09-10-2024 at 11:43 AM.
***Bumps head***
Of course, Split Second.
Time to reevaluate.
And Ignoble Hierarch is a Shaman too and Exalted is a triggered ability
Krark, the Thumbless could work for you since you care a lot about cast triggers, but it's probably just bad.
Dragon's Rage Channeler might be OK though.
I went back and forth on Krark but
1. he's just too unreliable and
2. if he does trigger again the spells become copies and copies are not "cast", thus do not trigger the Wizard effects.
DRC : the deck has only three types : lands, creatures and instants thus DRC would never trigger.
With Legolas included the deck could look like this
//CC1
4 Tamiyo, Inquisitive Student // Tamiyo, Seasoned Scholar
4 Galvanic Discharge
4 Brainstorm
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Legolas's Quick Reflexes
//CC2
4 Slickshot Show-Off
4 Harmonic Prodigy
4 Electrostatic Infantry
4 Daze
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Kitsa, Otterball Elite
1 Balmor, Battlemage Captain
//CC3
2 Brazen Borrower // Petty Theft
1 Veyran, Voice of Duality
//Lands
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Volcanic Island
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Tropical Island
2 Taiga
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Mountain
1 Island
How does krak + prodigy really work?
If you lose the first coinflip (return spell to hand), does the second fizzle or can you copy the spell if you win?
If it is the second, then it might be worth it (25% chances your spell bounce, 25% it is copied, 50% you get the copy and keep the spell in hand).
If returning it to hand makes the other trigger fizzle, then it is bad. I think that is the case, but quite unsure.
It doesn't target so it doesn't fizzle. So 25% chance returned with no copies, 50% returned and 1 copy, and 25% 2 copies.
I could see a straight RG agGRO build
//Creatures: 23
4 Ignoble Hierarch
4 Soul-Scar Mage
4 Slickshot Show-Off
4 Harmonic Prodigy
4 Electrostatic Infantry
3 Questing Druid
//Spells: 17
3 Once Upon a Time
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
3 Legolas's Quick Reflexes
3 Fireblast
//Artifacts: 4
4 Mishra's Bauble
//Lands: 16
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Taiga
1 Commercial District
2 Mountain
1 Forest
//Sideboard:
3 Pyroblast
3 Price of Progress
2 Smash to Smithereens
2 Vexing Bauble
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Faerie Macabre
Using Baubles, OUAT and Questing Druid you can cheat in some card draw to not run out of spells.
Maybe include Berserk or Scale Up? But that feels like being a weaker version of Infect.
In UR you're a bit slower but can play better cards:
//Creatures: 19
4 Dragon's Rage Channeler
4 Tamiyo, Inquisitive Student
4 Slickshot Show-Off
4 Harmonic Prodigy
2 Balmor, Battlemage Captain
1 Brazen Borrower
//Spells: 19
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Daze
//Artifacts: 4
4 Mishra's Bauble
//Lands: 18
4 Wasteland
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
1 Prismatic Vista
4 Volcanic Island
1 Island
1 Mountain
//Sideboard: 15
3 Pyroblast
3 Price of Progress
2 Consign to Memory
2 Counterbalance
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Force of Negation
1 Brazen Borrower
I think Balmor is better than Infantry, but it's a tough call. Balmor flies and grows multiple creatures per spell (+2 or +3), but the Infantry gets permanent counters. Needs testing.
Ignoble Hierarch is a great fit for the Wizard/Shaman strategy as he puts you straight into business om T2
For example
T1 Hierarch
T2 Slickshot + Legolas = a 4/3 attacking slingshot + potentially dealing 4 damage to an opposing creature.
That looks pretty strong to me.
The fact that you can now have 3 mana on T2 means I would also up the count of Legolas's Quick Reflexes to 4 copies.
In the slower RU build you don't want this in your opening hand, in a faster GRu version you do, imo.
I would still advice to splash Blue though because Snapcaster Mage is so amazing in here.
Not only does he reuse your instants but being able to play TWO instants from the GY, thereby also triggering your Wizards TWICE-or-MORE is just too good to ignore.
The baubles just don't belong here, imo.
In the GR version they only trigger Slickshot and nothing else.
In the RU version they can also trigger DRC but they don't carry enough weight imo.
Compare to a splash for Blue and adding Snapcaster Mage and Brainstorm
I think there's a pretty good RUG version in there.
And of course having a second ( or more ) Prodigy in play adds another coin toss thereby reducing even more the bad results and increasing the good results.
Maybe should try Krark out anyway :)
Reworking the deck to make it RUG and with Krark leads me to
//Lands 17
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Volcanic Island
2 Polluted Delta
2 Tropical Island
2 Taiga
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Mountain
1 Island
//Instants/Sorceries 19
4 Legolas's Quick Reflexes
4 Galvanic Discharge
4 Brainstorm
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Ponder
2 Brazen Borrower // Petty Theft
//Creatures 24
4 Slickshot Show-Off
4 Ignoble Hierarch
4 Harmonic Prodigy
4 Electrostatic Infantry
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Tamiyo, Inquisitive Student // Tamiyo, Seasoned Scholar
2 Balmor, Battlemage Captain
1 Krark, the Thumbless
Ok, RUG does give the best mix of effects.
How has it been playtesting?
The Baubles trigger Prowess for 0 mana and replace themselves, allowing you to get more Prowess triggers per turn. They also help Delirium. They trigger:
Soul-Scar Mage
Dragon's Rage Channeler
Slickshot Show-Off
Harmonic Prodigy
Kitsa, Otterball Elite
Stormchaser Mage
Baubles just don't work with Snapcaster, Electrostatic Infantry, and Balmor. (They don't trigger Questing Druid either, but I see Druid as more of a draw spell than a creature, the creature is just a bonus). So it depends which direction you build in. Some UR and mono R Prowess decks on mtgtop8 have 4 Mishra's Bauble.
Red Prowess Burn: https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=59105&d=642695&f=LE
UR Aggro: https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=59282&d=644162&f=LE
UR Energy Aggro: https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=57599&d=630178&f=LE
Snapcaster Mage is a very powerful card. But double Snapcaster is at least 4 mana: 1U (Snapcaster) + 1 cmc spell + 1 cmc spell. 4 mana is not easy for an aggressive deck, and only makes 2 Prowess triggers. That 4 mana gets more Prowess triggers by chaining cantrips (Brainstorm, Ponder, Preordain, Tune the Narrative), free spells (Baubles, Fireblast, Daze, Force), or even 2-mana draw spells (Seek the Beast). Snapcaster is usually in control decks, not aggressive tempo decks. It depends what you want to do with the deck. For a tempo build, I think you're better off just chaining cheap cantrips. 4 Brainstorm 4 Ponder seems a must.
Maybe
//Creatures: 16
4 Dragon's Rage Channeler
4 Tamiyo, Inquisitive Student
4 Slickshot Show-Off
4 Harmonic Prodigy
//Spells: 24
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Unholy Heat
2 Legolas's Quick Reflexes
4 Daze
1 Become Immense
//Artifacts: 4
4 Mishra's Bauble
//Lands: 16
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Volcanic Island
2 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Mountain
Or if you don't want Baubles and want more instant & sorcery energy stuff:
//Creatures: 20
4 Ignoble Hierarch
3 Tamiyo, Inquisitive Student
4 Slickshot Show-Off
4 Harmonic Prodigy
3 Electrostatic Infantry
2 Balmor, Battlemage Captain
//Spells: 24
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Galvanic Discharge
3 Tune the Narrative
3 Legolas's Quick Reflexes
2 Lightning Bolt
//Lands: 16
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Volcanic Island
2 Tropical Island
2 Taiga
1 Island
1 Mountain
Either way, 4 Brainstorm 4 Ponder seems important. 4 Force helps not lose as badly to combo. Tune the Narrative makes Galvanic Discharge better.
For the SB,
Pyroblast
Price of Progress
Consign to Memory
Surgical Extraction
Force of Negation seems like a good place to start for the current meta. With some kind of bounce/disenchant effect.
Last edited by FTW; 09-17-2024 at 08:11 PM.
I understand where you are going with your deck suggestions, FTW, but personally I try to avoid the FoW, Daze, Ponder, Brainstorm package if I can simply because
1- I don't like playing with those cards - I simply do not enjoy those type of games
2- more importantly, I think reactive spells ( like counterspells) are less efficient in this deck than proactive spells ( like Reflexes ) because you can use the latter at your terms while the reactive spells are used at the opponent's terms which is usually not when you get the most out of your Prowess effects.
In any way, I think this deck needs to build on its strongest opening and ( correct me if I'm wrong ) that opening is
T1 Hierarch
T2 Slickshot + Reflexes
T3 Prodigy + instant(s)
And since Sylvan Library triggers both, Slickshot and Prodigy AND it says DRAW two additional cards which would trigger Tamiyo, Inquisitive Student as well, I'm considering adding at least one copy.
Your take ?
That kind of game plan is pretty similar to what infect does, so something like Blossoming Defense or Mutagenic Growth might also fit well.
Without protection of some kind - discard, counters, or hexproofing effects, this kind of game plan is unlikely to be competitive.
You're probably not interested in adding colors, but Clever Lumimancer has a strong self-pump ability at a low cc.
I know the motivation here is wizards tribal, but I also wonder how much Harmonic Prodigy is worth in a build like that and whether, say, Kiln Fiend or Twinflame would do better in the same slot.
Manamorphose is probably not good enough, but it does provide a cast trigger for 0 net mana and 0 net cards.
Blossoming Defense is an excellent suggestion, Rufus especially with a possible 3 mana on T2 this card can come alive real fast.
You're right about not wanting to tap into another color (white), and Manamorphose being just too cute imo.
With green becoming a main color however I think Nadu, Winged Wisdom becomes a must-include. The advantages are plenty.
- Besides being a Power-3 Flyer
- Nadu is also a Wizard, thus his ability can trigger multiple times with one or more Prodigies out
- Nadu and your other creatures can benefit off of Reflexes and Blossoming Defense.
- Nadu's best combo card Shuko also triggers Slickshot and Prodigy when played.
- Overall he adds insane drawing potential while also being excellent beatdown.
Add : 3 Nadu + 2 Shuko (?) and 3 Tamiyo + 1 Sylvan Library (?)
A couple of observations :
Ignoble Hierarch is not only the preferred T1 drop, he can also become a dangerous attacker when supported by Harmonic Prodigy because of the double Exalted trigger.
Hierarchs are also great because their Exalted ability can be used the turn they enter the battlefield, turning each other Hierarch in play into a +2/+2 bonus with 1 Prodigy in play.
This leads me to wanting more T1 drops who can do this and offer another angle of attack + more mana.
Add : 4 Ignoble Hierarch + 2 Noble Hierarch
Unfortunately Noble Hierarch is not a Wizard or Shaman, thus does not double trigger.
As I mentioned a few posts above :
a great T3 consists of Harmonic Prodigy + instant(s) ... but you can also play Prodigy + Hierarch for a similar ( or even better ) P/T boost to the attacker.
Another observation is that Galvanic Discharge has a nice edge case use.
It can be used harmlessly to target one of your own creatures with it, dealing 0 damage, putting 3 Energy Counters in reserve and trigger for example Nadu, Winged Wisdom to draw Cards or any other of your creatures for their effects.
This now gives you four cards which fit the strategy of this deck and which trigger Nadu, Winged Wisdom
Legolas's Quick Reflexes + Blossoming Defense + Shuko + Galvanic Discharge
Meaning : at least 3x Nadu, Winged Wisdom
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