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Thread: How Humility Works

  1. #321
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    Re: How Humility Works

    613.3a. Layer 7a: Effects from characteristic-defining abilities that define power and/or toughness are applied.
    613.3b. Layer 7b: Effects that set power and/or toughness to a specific number or value are applied.
    613.3c. Layer 7c: Effects that modify power and/or toughness (but don't set power and/or toughness to a specific number or value) are applied.
    613.3d. Layer 7d: Power and/or toughness changes from counters are applied.
    613.3e. Layer 7e: Effects that switch a creature's power and toughness are applied.
    Starting with a 1/3 creature, the effects are applied in this order:

    Layer 7a - nothing
    Layer 7b - nothing
    Layer 7c - -0/-1 is applied -> it's a 1/2 creature
    Layer 7d - nothing
    Layer 7e - P/T switch is applied -> it's a 2/1 creature.

    So (2) is correct.
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  2. #322
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    Re: How Humility Works

    Quote Originally Posted by heroicraptor View Post
    Nope. It means when something else makes the permanent indestructible under Humility, say Elspeth's ultimate, it will stay indestructible.
    With the M13 rules changes "indestructible" is now an ability. Thus, Humility will remove it. In the quoted example, the effect is now different.

    An excerpt of Elspeth, Knight-Errant's Oracle text:

    -8: You get an emblem with "Artifacts, creatures, enchantments, and lands you control have indestructible."

    Humility would now remove this ability, correct?

  3. #323
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    Re: How Humility Works

    Yes, now that the ability is a keyword ability, Humility will remove it.
    They banned Top, so now I play Grixis Delver.

  4. #324
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    Re: How Humility Works

    I was watching the Invitational earlier today. At some point the Shardless Bant player plays a Shardless Agent with an Humility on the battlefield (here at 7h32). The problem is that he doesn't resolve the Cascade trigger. Since the Cascade happens when Agent is on the stack he should have, shouldn't he?

  5. #325
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    Re: How Humility Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Anen View Post
    I was watching the Invitational earlier today. At some point the Shardless Bant player plays a Shardless Agent with an Humility on the battlefield (here at 7h32). The problem is that he doesn't resolve the Cascade trigger. Since the Cascade happens when Agent is on the stack he should have, shouldn't he?
    Correct. Abilities that trigger on casting creatures still trigger.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TsumiBand View Post
    It also paves the way for one of my favorite tautologous Magic cards -- Cavalry Master! "Other creatures you control with flanking have flanking." OF COURSE THEY DO

  6. #326
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    Re: How Humility Works

    And how many times did both Patrick Sullivan and Matthias Hunt say that the Painter's Servant/Grindstone combo doesn't work with Humility out, and base their entire read of the game on that incorrect thought?

  7. #327
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    Re: How Humility Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott View Post
    And how many times did both Patrick Sullivan and Matthias Hunt say that the Painter's Servant/Grindstone combo doesn't work with Humility out, and base their entire read of the game on that incorrect thought?
    I didn't see that game, but I'm guessing they did it all of the times.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TsumiBand View Post
    It also paves the way for one of my favorite tautologous Magic cards -- Cavalry Master! "Other creatures you control with flanking have flanking." OF COURSE THEY DO

  8. #328

    Re: How Humility Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott View Post
    And how many times did both Patrick Sullivan and Matthias Hunt say that the Painter's Servant/Grindstone combo doesn't work with Humility out, and base their entire read of the game on that incorrect thought?
    Heyho,

    just found this thread and I saw that comment. I understand the basic concept behind Humility but I don't understand this case. I understand, that when Painter resolves you name a colour (since this happens, before the Painter enters the battlefield), but then what?

    The only thing I can think off is, that since the second ability of the Painter applies in the 5th layer ('Colour Changing Effects') happens, before the remove of all abilities (Layer 6). Is this correct?

    Greetings,
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  9. #329
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    Re: How Humility Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Kathal View Post
    Heyho,

    just found this thread and I saw that comment. I understand the basic concept behind Humility but I don't understand this case. I understand, that when Painter resolves you name a colour (since this happens, before the Painter enters the battlefield), but then what?

    The only thing I can think off is, that since the second ability of the Painter applies in the 5th layer ('Colour Changing Effects') happens, before the remove of all abilities (Layer 6). Is this correct?

    Greetings,
    Kathal
    This article does a good job explaining the intricacies of the Humility/Painter's Servant interaction, and other Humility interactions.

  10. #330
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    Re: How Humility Works

    Probably a silly question, but how does Humility interact with Constellation? If Humility and Eidolon of Blossoms enter the battlefield simultaneously, I don't think I draw any cards. But what if Eidolon is already in play when Humility is being cast?

  11. #331
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    Re: How Humility Works

    There is no combination of Humility and Eidolon of Blossoms that will result in you drawing a card.

  12. #332
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    Re: How Humility Works

    Quote Originally Posted by iamajellydonut View Post
    There is no combination of Humility and Eidolon of Blossoms that will result in you drawing a card.
    Aight, thanks. I didn't think so, but I felt like I needed confirmation.

  13. #333

    Re: How Humility Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Watersaw View Post
    Aight, thanks. I didn't think so, but I felt like I needed confirmation.
    ETB triggers, like most triggers, check whether they triggered after the event. Since Humility is in play at that point, its static ability is already in effect.

    Leaves-the-battlefield triggers and a few other specific triggers check before the event, so Humility also stops those.
    “It's possible. But it involves... {checks archives} Nature's Revolt, Opalescence, two Unstable Shapeshifters (one of which started as a Doppelganger), a Tide, an animated land, a creature with Fading, a Silver Wyvern, some way to get a creature into play in response to stuff, some way to get a land into play in response to stuff (a different land from the animated land), and one heck of a Rube Goldberg timing diagram.
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  14. #334
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    Re: How Humility Works

    I hope I'm asking this in the right place as this thread looks fairly dead.

    If my opponent has a Humility in play and and I have a Smuggler's Copter with a creature in play. I crew the Copter so is my Copter now a 3/3 flyer with a loot ability or just a lowly 1/1?

  15. #335

    Re: How Humility Works

    Quote Originally Posted by pocari79 View Post
    I hope I'm asking this in the right place as this thread looks fairly dead.

    If my opponent has a Humility in play and and I have a Smuggler's Copter with a creature in play. I crew the Copter so is my Copter now a 3/3 flyer with a loot ability or just a lowly 1/1?
    It is a 1/1 with no abilities. Crew doesn't set power/toughness, so it does not work like Mishra's Factory.

  16. #336
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    Re: How Humility Works

    Yes, it works because of layers

  17. #337
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    Re: How Humility Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott View Post
    This article does a good job explaining the intricacies of the Humility/Painter's Servant interaction, and other Humility interactions.
    Actually with the news rules update to Blood Moon, Humility, etc. Unless the painters servant is already in play pre humility you no longer get to choose a color, so painter no longer works. (If painter was already in play pre humility then yes it still works because layers).

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