[Deck] TES (The EPIC Storm)

[Tao]

Simplify can't effectively deal with Confinement.

Why ?

[Bryant Cook]

Why ?

Because most of the decks that play Confinement also play other enchantments, and that doesn't deal with more than one. In order to kill two enchantments you'd have to Burning Wish for simplify, cast Dreturns, Remove it via Returns or Plunge then Wish for it again. Resulting in much more mana than Tranquility.

[jegger]

I think we need to do more of a sideboard breakdown, because well at times I'm happy with it then there are times I hate it.

Tendrils of Agony- is there really a choice here?
Sure!

Empty the Warrens- What's the proper number? When only playing 1 MD (Breathweapon let's try not to start a war here). How often do you board yours in?
Only One. We can use only 15 cards and if I use more slots for this I must remove others necessary cards like defense grid or tranquility. Besides there are many matchups like goblin, solidarity, rock, 43 lands that have solution to this card. This card is useful only against aggro-control like threshold or fish but in these matchups I side in also defense grid, dark confidant and pyroclasm/earthquake/rough...and if I side in also this card I don't know what card I must side out...other acceleration, naah...

Diminishing Returns- Is there really a choice here? Obvius! If I want to win more early sometimes, I must use it.

Ill-Gotten Gains- Definitely debatable, I personally like it in the SB; Breathweapon seems to think it should be cut. I like it because the example listed above with Infernal for double LED, which seems to be the case a lot for me.
Sure! I forget all the times burning for III-gotten gains with infernal tutor in grave.


Dark Confidant- Is he really worth it? I've been testing him against aggro control a lot (UGW Thresh, Hanni Fish, $c Slivers) he's earned his place in those match-ups but how about against other arch-types?
Dark Confidant is very strong, but I use only 3, not 4. It gives a strong card advantage against many decks. I've tried to side in them against aggro-control with red like boros but it's a mistake. Dark Confidant doesn't survive a turn.

Defense Grid- I can't decide if I love or hate this card. Half the time I hate drawing it and the other times I love it against Aggro Control, It wins games on it's own vs. Hanni Fish. I'm currently playing two and don't know if these should be Duress or not.
I'm playing with 3xantid & 2 Dgrids in main and 2 Dgrids in side. Perhaps they are too much.

Rough // Tumble / Earthquake- What do you think this slot should be? We have these as possible choices R/T, Earthquake, Pyroclasm, Grapeshot, and Cave-in there’s probably more I didn't think of.
I'm using rough // tumble. The only problem is when I side both dark confidant and this. 8 dmgs are too much! But I run the risk.

Duress- I find myself wishing for this more and more lately then again I am testing vs. Aggro Control. Should two more of these take the place of Defense Grid?
I'm thinking to reside cabal therapy instead of duress now that I use dark confidant. For a reason: orim's chant. I've played some games where I've did burning -> duress (and I've thought to win in that turn) and I've saw 2 orim's :/.
Orim is a probem if my opponent play white and I don't want use in game2-3 Dgrids & xantid so I can put dark confidant. But 1 duress/therapy is a necessity.

Shattering Spree- I recently went down to 1 of these, I hardly ever used them when I sided them in and I think it's better to concentrate on Improving match-ups that need it than ones that are already favorable.
Too much useful. 3

Tranquility- I've gone over my views on this card and why it’s here for two cards only (Solitary confinement and Pyrostatic Pillar) and Simplify can't effectively deal with Confinement.
ok tranquility >>> simplify

I'd like to hear your thoughts on this.

Some questions:

What are your side in/out against faerie stompy, stax, aggro with red like boros or zoo?

The baddest matchup I think is faerie stompy and stax (angel stax, new stax with black. They have too many hate cards:
- faerie stompy has tormod's, damn chalice, counters and fast clock
- sax has damn trini, damn chalice, denial components and more lock

ciao!

[Tao]

Because most of the decks that play Confinement also play other enchantments.

Which decks are these? I can only think of Enchantress which is no Meta factor at all and should be a favorable matchup.

The Loam decks use only Confinement. Ok, CAL uses Assault too, but when CAL has both Enchantments in Play the game will end the next turn.

[Parcher]

Which decks are these? I can only think of Enchantress which is no Meta factor at all and should be a favorable matchup.

The Loam decks use only Confinement. Ok, CAL uses Assault too, but when CAL has both Enchantments in Play the game will end the next turn.

Astral Slide is another one. But then again, if you lose to Confinement Slide with this deck....don't play anymore.

[Bryant Cook]

Against Faerie Sompy I side out
-4 Cabal Ritual
-3 Plunge into Darkness
+4 Dark Confidant
+1 ETW
+2 Defense Grid

Stax
-4 Xantid
+3 Dark Confidant
+1 ETW

Zoo/random aggro
-4 Xantid
-1 Cabal Ritual
+1 ETW
+4 Dark Confidant

Believe it or not but Confinement decks also play Explorations, Zombie Infestation, and sometimes Manabond.(people have been trying to merge CAL decks with 43 lately.) It's not terribly hard for them to go first turn exploration, 2nd turn Confinement, 3rd turn lock you out.

[BreathWeapon]

I think we need to do more of a sideboard breakdown, because well at times I'm happy with it then there are times I hate it.

Tendrils of Agony- is there really a choice here?

Empty the Warrens- What's the proper number? When only playing 1 MD (Breathweapon let's try not to start a war here). How often do you board yours in?

Diminishing Returns- Is there really a choice here?

Ill-Gotten Gains- Definitely debatable, I personally like it in the SB; Breathweapon seems to think it should be cut. I like it because the example listed above with Infernal for double LED, which seems to be the case a lot for me.

Dark Confidant- Is he really worth it? I've been testing him against aggro control a lot (UGW Thresh, Hanni Fish, $c Slivers) he's earned his place in those match-ups but how about against other arch-types?

Defense Grid- I can't decide if I love or hate this card. Half the time I hate drawing it and the other times I love it against Aggro Control, It wins games on it's own vs. Hanni Fish. I'm currently playing two and don't know if these should be Duress or not.

Rough // Tumble / Earthquake- What do you think this slot should be? We have these as possible choices R/T, Earthquake, Pyroclasm, Grapeshot, and Cave-in there’s probably more I didn't think of.

Duress- I find myself wishing for this more and more lately then again I am testing vs. Aggro Control. Should two more of these take the place of Defense Grid?

Shattering Spree- I recently went down to 1 of these, I hardly ever used them when I sided them in and I think it's better to concentrate on Improving match-ups that need it than ones that are already favorable.

Tranquility- I've gone over my views on this card and why it’s here for two cards only (Solitary confinement and Pyrostatic Pillar) and Simplify can't effectively deal with Confinement.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on this.

1) Empty the Warrens

I'm not interested in starting another war over ETW, but I will point out that ETW is being SBed in games 2 and 3 against all of the Tier 1 decks and all archetypes. When a card is being SBed in as standard procedure against the entire field, you have to ask yourself, "should I MD this card? It's important to note that the card increases the number of threats in the MD, it is never dead, it is stronger when it is drawn, and it changes the nature of Plunge into Darkness in this deck.

2) SB Ill Gotten Gains

It's not that I think Ill Gotten Gains is a poor choice in the SB, it's that I think that Burning Wish for Right of Flame accomplishes a similar goal as Infernal Tutor for an accelerant, followed with Burning Wish for an Ill Gotten Gains. I think the SB Ill Gotten Gains is hiding Burning Wish's weakness as a set up card that can't tutor for an accelerant ,in the current lists, but then again, Infernal Tutor for Dark Ritual or Lion's Eye Diamond is stronger than Burning Wish for a Right of Flame, so it's not clear cut.

3) SB Duress, multiple Duress.

The SB Duress is a must, IMO, because of the aggro-control match up, however I wouldn't SB additional Duress, because additional Duress are worse than Defense Grid when SBed in.

4) Dark Confidant vs Defense Grid

This is the argument that defines whether or not Defense Grid should be in the SB, and I think people are going to have to draw their own conclusions. Both of them are strong cards in their own right against aggro-control, but one improves to the discard match up and the other improves the High Tide match up.

5) Pyroclasm vs Rough/Tumble vs Earthquake vs Grapeshot

While I like Rough/Tumble, it conflicts with SBing Dark Confidant, and if the deck can Wish for Grape Shot and deal 20 damage, it should "just win." But, it all depends on how well this deck can kill with Grape Shot, and in my experience, it's not good.

6) Tranquility + Shattering Spree vs Hull Breach

I don't see a reason to use two slots for removal over one, it's not difficult to imprint a red, or even a green, card on Chrome Mox or use two gold lands for its cc.

[Kronicler]

6) Tranquility + Shattering Spree vs Hull Breach

I don't see a reason to use two slots for removal over one, it's not difficult to imprint a red, or even a green, card on Chrome Mox or use two gold lands for its cc.

I know it has been said before, but Shattering Spree pwns chalice of the void and can kill 2 chalices at once. Against Faerie Stompy this play is particularly potent as they will most likely get down a chalice at 0 and 1 within the first few turns, and being able to take them both out (as well as perhaps a Jitte) with only 1 card is teh hottness. I do think Hull Breach is better than Simplify or Tranquility though, as you can kill their confinement or w/e by paying only 2 mana rather than 3.

Kronicler

[kicks_422]

The protection that I use against Faerie Stompy is 4 Xantid Swarm, 4 Shattering Spree, boarding out 4 Cabal Rituals.

I haven't been having a particularly hard time with FS... It's not a cakewalk, but it's very far from unwinnable. Chalice and Fow are their only cards that really hurts you, both of which can be answered.

I havent played against Stax yet, but I'm thinking 4 Shattering Spree would be hot against them too.

[BreathWeapon]

I know it has been said before, but Shattering Spree pwns chalice of the void and can kill 2 chalices at once. Against Faerie Stompy this play is particularly potent as they will most likely get down a chalice at 0 and 1 within the first few turns, and being able to take them both out (as well as perhaps a Jitte) with only 1 card is teh hottness. I do think Hull Breach is better than Simplify or Tranquility though, as you can kill their confinement or w/e by paying only 2 mana rather than 3.

Kronicler

The problem with that assessment is that there is nothing that prevents that deck from Chalice 1 and Chalice 2, the first to stop the deck from comboing and to counter its removal, the second to counter its tutors for removal. If that deck is that much of a threat, it should be SBing in Shattering Spree and not relying on Wishing for it to begin with.

[Kronicler]

@ Kicks: If I wasn't 1 of the 2 people in my meta who played FS (the other being jamest who I just met randomly at my card shop the other night for the first time) then I might consider 4 shattering sprees in the SB because they make a HUGE difference in the matchup, completely taking care of CotV. With chalice out of the picture the matchup is DRASTICALLY improved, as all you have to do is play around 0, 1 (usually), or 2 FOWs and beat FSes clock. The thing is that I dont want to take up 4 SB slots to improve 1 (well, more I guess if you count the 10 million stax variations) matchup that I will rarely see.

@BreathWeapon: When I play FS and I'm against TES, I always drop a chalice at 1 first, followed usually by a trinket mage for another chalice. Sometimes I wait till the next turn and drop the 2nd chalice at 2, but a lot of the time I lay it for zero right after I fetch it, especially if I don't have a FOW in my hand. This is mostly because I dont want to give the TES player another turn to combo out with LEDs and the such, as playing around chalice at 1 isn't really hard. Sure, it's annoying, but comboing around chalice at 0 and 1 is so much harder. So while 0 and 1 might not shut them out of the game 1 and 2 do, it buys me atleast 2 turns to dig for chalice / trinket / FOW / just win.

Kronicler

[Eldariel]

@BreathWeapon: When I play FS and I'm against TES, I always drop a chalice at 1 first, followed usually by a trinket mage for another chalice. Sometimes I wait till the next turn and drop the 2nd chalice at 2, but a lot of the time I lay it for zero right after I fetch it, especially if I don't have a FOW in my hand. This is mostly because I dont want to give the TES player another turn to combo out with LEDs and the such, as playing around chalice at 1 isn't really hard. Sure, it's annoying, but comboing around chalice at 0 and 1 is so much harder. So while 0 and 1 might not shut them out of the game 1 and 2 do, it buys me atleast 2 turns to dig for chalice / trinket / FOW / just win.

Kronicler

Sometimes it's correct to lead with Chalice at 0 (ok, so it's often correct) on the play as it saves your mana and can lock TES out entirely if they don't have a land in hand.

[emidln]

I find that a lot of my first turn kills are Tendrils + Wish -> Grapeshot. I personally would never cut Grapeshot as I use it so often.

If that deck is that much of a threat, it should be SBing in Shattering Spree and not relying on Wishing for it to begin with.

This is what Bryant was doing for a long time and what I still like. In my meta, I can guarantee at least one near Stax deck near the top tables as I loan out UbaStax when I'm not playing it. The prospect of facing my own creation as well as random white stax, goblins, and faerie stompy has led me to see 3x Shattering Spree as essential.

[BreathWeapon]

I find that a lot of my first turn kills are Tendrils + Wish -> Grapeshot. I personally would never cut Grapeshot as I use it so often.

Care to post an example of that?

[AnwarA101]

TES just won the Isherlohn monthly Legacy event in Germany. I'm trying to get T8 lists, but I have lists of the decks and their names here -

http://web17.accelerated.de/turniere...ndingsT1.5.htm

Edit - This looks like only the standings after the swiss.

[emidln]

Care to post an example of that?

Basically, any time I have Tendrils in hand and a burning wish with 8 mana. This happens a lot on turn 2 after brainstorm when I can drop another land with a petal/chrome mox, some rit effects and go tendrils + wish -> brainstorm. Usually, I can end up with a diminishing returns with the same play, but I'd rather just go for the sure thing of wish -> grapeshot, grapeshot, tendrils.

[Citrus-God]

I dont think you people get the point of siding in Confidant against aggro or a Boros Deck Wins-esque deck.... it's to improve your goldfish w/ Chrome Mox. Really, when Chrome Mox imprints Xantid Swarm, it's a bummer... luckily, Confidant helps mox produce Black.

And yes, just to add.... TES is like Grim Long, it's flexible, and if played right, it has every tool you need to win against any deck. Play this deck religously, it takes practice like Solidarity. If your saying this deck is unstable because it's D. Returns hands are crap, say the same about Meditate from Solidarity.

[Oddball]

TES just won the Isherlohn monthly Legacy event in Germany. I'm trying to get T8 lists

Link

[sammiel]

thats an interesting top 8. any idea of how many people were there?

[odabella]

thats an interesting top 8. any idea of how many people were there?

53! You can look at is-magic.de. Have to go at 'Turniere'/Standings and you will see each decktype of them.