[Deck] EATS!

[Di]

Liek OMG what's with all these Survival threads recently? It's crazy. And here's another one. /sigh But a lot of people have been yelling at me to post this for a while, and I told the people at the GAGG who asked about it I'd post it, so there I'm posting it.

I've been working with ATS again for a solid 4-5 months after I got bored with other decks, and I've been rather impressed with the results. It's a very different deck now than it was in its older days, but of course that's what happens when the format turns to shit. I've been playing to deck at local tournaments for a while with success, and recently at the GAGG tournament I was around the top seed until I got shit on by bad draws, but that happens. Anyway, this deck shouldn't really much of an introduction, so I'll just go strait to the decklist. I'll just note it's slighly different than the one I played at the GAGG

EATS!
A masterpiece by me!
list edited: 4/7/07


4 Survival of the Fittest
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Therapy

1 Tradewind Rider
1 Quirion Ranger
2 Eternal Witness

1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Anger
1 Genesis

3 Dark Confidant
3 Flametongue Kavu
1 Masticore
1 Bone Shredder
1 Tin Street Hooligan
1 Ravenous Baloth

4 Tinder Wall
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Werebear
1 Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary

3 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Tropical Island
4 Bayou
3 Taiga
3 Forest


Sideboard:
3 Engineered Plague
1 Goblin Pyromancer
1 Pithing Needle
2 Null Rod
3 Duress
3 Mesmeric Fiend
2 Arcane Laboratory


Alright, um where to begin. I guess I can start off with the decklist. As you may notice, there are a lot of changes in it. All those card choices are whatnot will be explained later, so don't yell at me because I'll be getting to it. This deck is no longer a control-combo deck as it once was, but now is primarily an aggro-control deck. It can play similiar to RGSA or other aggressive variants, or it can play defensive and control if it needs to. This is why I like the deck so much, as it yields a great deal of versatility and can adapt very well to situations. Now, it looks like there are a lot of one-ofs (or more than their should be), but there really are only 3 excluding the graveyard creatures: Ranger, Tin Street, and Baloth. It looks like more, but I'll explain that below. But with basically 3 silver bullets, the deck has greatly cut down on it's number of weaker slots and maximized it's threat density to the point where running without a Survival isn't an issue at all. With that said, lets go to card choices.

Survival: Yep.

Brainstorm: I shouldn't need to explain this, but some people are apparently stupid. So, I won't explain and let them continue to be stupid.

Cabal Therapy: I switched to black for the disruption element, and Therapy is like really good. Maindeck over Duress because it's not awful against Goblins, and has pretty good synergy with the 200 maindeck creatures.

Tradewind Rider: This guy's role has changed a ton since the old times. The deck no longer focuses on him for a controlling role, but he's there as a support role to force through attackers. He also plays really good defense. A lot of people have been bashing him and believe the deck would be better without it (hence, making it not ATS), but they don't understand how useful he is. It's basically a recurring FTK every turn, and it protects your own men. It's a one card machine that can change a situation and adapt the deck in one fell swoop. Regardless of what you naysayers are chiming, it stays.

Quirion Ranger: Saves you from Wasteland, adds a lot of mana with Rofellos, is good with BoP/Bear/Tradewind, generally amazing utility creature. Debating going up to 2, but that 2nd slot is currently in possession of Rofellos.

Eternal Witness: No explanation necessary. I'd probably go up to 3 if there was room, but honestly I find myself needing Witness less and less as time goes by. Not that it's use has gotten worse, but the deck just hasn't had too many problems when it just tutors up another copy of whatever.

Squee/Anger/Genesis: Yea. Also, to those retarded few who don't maindeck Genesis, do yourself a favor and put it back in. It single-handedly wins control matchups.

Dark Confidant: The other reason I went to the black splash. It's the Survival on legs, and allows the deck to create an advantage without Survival on the table. Originally it was up to 4, but between drawing multiples and hitting 4cc creatures (which it doesn't do nearly as often as you'd think) I decided to cut down to 3. I think it's the right number, and it's been working insanely well.

FTK/Bone Shredder/Masticore: Think of this as 4 FTK, but a lot better. While all those other Survival decks run their narrow 4 FTK and shit the bed to Silver Knight, I like a little versatility with my removal. Shredder, although weak, kills a turn earlier than the others and dodges pro-red. Masticore is a board sweeper against Goblins and other aggro, and has the potential to kill bigger creatures like Exalted Angel, Mystic Enforcer, etc if Tradewind is not around. You won't see FTK do that.

Tin Street Hooligan: Best artifact removal slot there is. It's absolutely huge that it costs 2 cc as opposed to 3, because it can hit before Vial gets dumb and before Jitte gets online.

Ravenous Baloth: The deck needs some form of life gain. I don't play white, so Baloth is the strongest option there is.

Tinder Wall: My favorite inclusion to the deck. Everyone who's seen the deck in action has supported this guy as well, and I think it's really underrated. My main reason for including him was to block Goblin Lackey on turn 1 and not die to a Mogg Fanatic, but it also happens to accelerate out into turn 2 Tradewind Riders and FTKs. Most decks aren't too happy facing an active Tradewind Rider by turn 3. Oh, it also has the random ability to hit off Warcheifs and Piledrivers and ass 2 creatures.

Werebear: They replaced Wall of Roots. The deck needed something other than a Wall because it needed to act more aggressive to work in the metagame. Werebear is the perfect answer to this. It's an elf from like turns 1-4 at the latest, then it's a beast. When you throw 3 of them into play, hasted on turn 5, it makes it difficult for the opponent to win.

Birds of Paradise: No reason necessary. Yea, some Survival decks are against running stuff like Birds nowadays and guess what, those decks are bad because they are slow as hell. Survival needs all the early boost it can afford, and this is the best option in a 4color deck. I'm also not cutting them because they are foil and pretty.

Rofellos: Heart and soul of the acceleration. I ran only one at the GAGG, but was begging for 2 all day long. It still remains the opposing decks' top priority to kill, and generally he dies after getting only a couple activations if the opponent is smart. Because of this, I'm running another one to tutor up. When he dies, I almost always want to get him back, and it's a pain to pay 5 mana to get him and play him, whether it be Genesis or Witness. It's a lot easier to just tutor another one next turn and resume your manacrazy dumbness. Also note, I'm testing a 2nd Quirion Ranger in the 2nd Rofellos slot, because I'm debating whether or not that might be more important, but I'll have to wait and see.

Manabase: I know, 19 lands is low, especially when there are 10 nonbasics. But I really haven't seen mana issues all that often. The deck has 14 creatures that act as mana accelerants, so the manabase actually accounts for over half the deck. Generally, there aren't issues unless I'm seeing like serious rape (by which I mean 4+ cards against the manabase)

Sideboard:

Duress: No brainer really.

Engineered Plague: I like it against Goblins because it allows me to pair up against them better. It also make Masticore absolutely broken.

Goblin Pyromancer: Tutor Wrath of God. I'll take one, please.

Pithing Needle: It hits Wasteland. And Vial. And Pernicious Deed. And Umezawa's Jitte.

Mesmeric Fiend: Tutorable Duress. Originally there were more of these but I cut them for Hypnotiq Specters (explained below).

Hypnotiq Specter: Probably the worst slot in the sideboard, but I really feel they are needed for the Solidarity matchup. In testing they were able to fight through 2-3 discard spells, but it was hard for them to fight the recurring discard of Hippy. The BB can be a pain at times, but the potential for turn 2 Hippy with a Bird against Solidarity is just insane. Those games you rarely lose.

Arcane Lab: Added because it is really good against combo decks like Iggy Pop and TES which feature few outs of dealing with it. Also happens to be decent against Solidarity. Generally if it resolves I win, because it buys enough time for me to rape their hands to the point where they can't come back even if it's destroyed.

Cards that didn't make the cut:

Seedborn Muse: This is probably the glaring exclusion of the maindeck. Really, it was just win more. When designing the deck, I did my best to make sure every slot could work on its own (with the obvious exception of Tradewind itself, which requires 2 other creatures), and realized Muse was only good when Tradewind was on the table. And if I was able to tutor for Muse with Tradewind on the table, I could just as easily tutor something like FTK and bash face and win. That's when I realized the focus of this deck really changed, and Muse was just an overcosted, unnecessary slot.

Gilded Drake: Sometimes I miss it, but mainly I just prefer removal. It's bad against the tier 1, and against other decks if there's a problem creature then I return it to their hand.

Spore Frog: Spore Frog is bad. Period. Unless you have a Vial set at 1, and even then it's a weak play. FTK > Spore Frog.

Wall of Roots/Wall of Blossoms: They cost 2, and therefore can't block Lackey on the draw. That's a huge problem.

Basking Rootwalla/ Nimble Mongoose: I think I answered this in another thread, but basically Rootwalla dies to Fanatic/Gempalm against a Lackey, and Mongoose doesn't have the synergy with the deck like Tinder Wall does. Mongoose is fine if you want to run it, but I think you'll miss the speed boost that Wall provides.

Krosan Grip: I've been debating this in the sideboard for some time now, but I don't see the room for it. The combo matchup is too shaky to cut anything, and I want 6 cards for the Goblins matchup, so I'm not sure. Unfortunately the northeast is combo heaven, so that won't die down anytime soon.

Loaming Shaman: I really couldn't care less about the opponent's graveyard. If Threshold gets thresh, it shouldn't bother me because my creatures are more efficient anyway. Werebear still dies to FTK, and Mongoose is a measly 3/3. Enforcer is the only man to worry about and he can't hold the fort by himself, not to mention Twind can return him. And don't give me shit about decks like Reanimator or something. Well, there are Loam variants, but they aren't popular enough to warrant a sideboard slot.

Matchups:

UGW Threshold: Favorable. Threshold is a favorable matchup for Survival in general because of your overwhelming number of threats and their lack of them. I believe most Survival players will agree with me here. It's not by any means a blowout, but at least 60-40 to 65-35 preboard. Their maindeck Needles may be a pain if you're unable to find a Confidant outside of Survival, but you have a lot of threats and they have few answers (StP..FoW..Counterspell. Daze is pretty bad here beyond turn 3.) I board in the discard package to rape their hand, it works out pretty well.

UGr Threshold: This is similiar to UGW, but the matchup is tougher due to Pyroclasm. I'd say it's around 50-50, solely on their ability to hit multiple men with clasm. Playing around that is simple though. Just bait out men until they get hit, and when they do extend out the Werebears and big men who dodge clasm. Really it's not hard at all if you're a competant player. Post-board sees the same configuration at Threshold, and if you pick out Pyroclasm it greatly increases your odds of winning.

Goblins: Game 1 is Unfavorable, probably around 60-40 their favor. Priority number 1 is Goblin Lackey. On the play, I would open a hand that has Tinder Wall, Therapy, or a busted Survival start or mulligan. On the draw same for the above except Therapy, because it won't hit Lackey. If they miss the turn 1 Lackey and you have a Survival, winning the game isn't too hard. You match their men with 2-for-1s like Shredder and FTK, and your men are bigger than theirs. However, Goblins can easily steal the show with busted draws, so always play conservatively. Post-board the matchup is closer to 50-50, maybe 45-55 depending on what they bring in. Sideboarding sees Plagues, Goblin WoG, and Needles. Needle always says Wasteland unless Vial is in play, and do your best to bait their men out into a Pyromancer. Be careful for Pyrokenesis though, it's a bitch.

Solidarity: Unfavorable game 1. You have little to stop them from freely going off. Unless you see like the turn 2 Tradewind, you got little chance of winning. Post-board is favorable however, as you have access to a lot of hate. It's not incredibly in your favor, but it's decent enough to pull out a win a majority of the time. You just string out discard spell after discard spell, and if you resolve Survival and have a couple turns to use it you win. That strings out a Mesmeric Fiend and then Hypnotiq Specters and you go to town.

Iggy Pop: See Solidarity. Game 1 is awful, but post-board they have a single spell to deal with Arcane Laboratory. Plus, they aren't as resilient as Solidarity and have a tougher time dealing with multiple discard spells.

Deadguy/Red Death: About 50-50. These matches are very dependant on the start of each player. If they have the big disruption package followed by a threat it can be tough, but if you resolve Survival it will be tough for them because you get away from their disruption easily and still put threats out there. Post-board you don't get much, just Needle and some discard. Needle on Wasteland is a good bet, or maybe Nantuko Shade if it's there. Duress is good for hitting their Duresses and Hymns and Sinkholes and Dystopia to buy you time, but post-board it's still around 50-50.

I dunno what other matchups to add off the top of my head, maybe I'll add some more eventually, but those are the important ones for the most part. Thing is, I'm admitting that the deck doesn't have a positive game against the tier 1, yet I'm still supporting the deck. Just because matchup ratios aren't in your favor, doesn't necessarily mean the matchup isn't in your favor. With smart play this deck is capable of beating "unfavorable" matchups consistantly, as evidenced by my tournament play (which for multiple reasons isn't posted on here, but just take my word for it).

Enjoy.

[hi-val]

I like the deck but I think it looks a lot worse than projected against Goblins. It seems that if Ringleader hits the table, you just pack up and lose.

[BeeblesofLife]

I am personaly a fan of the "left field" decks and this one is no exception.
I think that you have pretty much stream lined it to fit the current meta.
As far as the Solidarity matchup, along with hyppie, has Xantid swarm been tested at all? It would help out in any weird control MUs as well.
Also, has Mox Monkey been tested out as an alternate needle killer?
Against thresh it would act as another T.Hooligan for mage purposes. It also kills EE for one mana.
Anywho, fan of the deck!

[greyareabeyond]

I'm glad to see the list is up for review. It really is a terrific deck. Nice balance, very versatile.

I would have to say the deck is probably better against Goblins than most players would realize from first glance. Still, I think I would probably change a card or two to metagame vs Goblins just because it's so common here.

From your last list, I'm sure the Mystic Snake and Seedborn Muse were tough cuts, but I think the list benefits from the consistency of 4 Brainstorm and 4 Tinder Wall. The Tinder Walls in particular are awesome.

I do miss having any graveyard hate at all in main or side, but if the discard is beating combo, then it's probably unnecessary.

[Di]

I like the deck but I think it looks a lot worse than projected against Goblins. It seems that if Ringleader hits the table, you just pack up and lose.

I would have to say the deck is probably better against Goblins than most players would realize from first glance.

From last paragraph in my post:

Just because matchup ratios aren't in your favor, doesn't necessarily mean the matchup isn't in your favor. With smart play this deck is capable of beating "unfavorable" matchups consistantly, as evidenced by my tournament play (which for multiple reasons isn't posted on here, but just take my word for it).

I'm fully aware Goblins isn't a favorable matchup, but you really need to play with the deck to get a feel for the matchup itself, and how it really is. Ringleader can be a problem at times, but Ringleader is also very random. Sometimes they hit the stone-cold nuts, sometimes they wiff. At the GAGG, I had Ringleaders net 4 goblins 3 times, and there wasn't a single time in any of those games that I didn't have control of it. Ringleader is only retarded when a Warchief is on the table because they can drop all those guys next turn, but otherwise you can keep each one in check with your own removal.

Really, the only creatures I fear when playing against Goblins are turn 1 Lackey, Warchief, and Gempalm Incinerator. Maybe SGC depending on the gamestate. Piledriver will get blocked into oblivion unless they have the Incinerator, and in most cases creatures like Warchief will be FTK'd or Shreddered out a turn after they come into play. Beyond the first couple turns, if Warchiefs are kept in check then it becomes a lot easier for you because they can't explode multiple creatures a turn as easily, whereas you have the ability to do so, sometimes multiple FtKs in a single turn or just drop Masticore. This deck really goes head-to-head with them in combat pretty well, and as long as Piledriver is blocked then there shouldn't be severe problems because their creature base consists of 2/2s.

As far as the Solidarity matchup, along with hyppie, has Xantid swarm been tested at all? It would help out in any weird control MUs as well.
Also, has Mox Monkey been tested out as an alternate needle killer?
Against thresh it would act as another T.Hooligan for mage purposes. It also kills EE for one mana.
Anywho, fan of the deck!

Xantid Swarm is a weak option in this deck because I'm not winning the game on the turn I attack with it. All it would do is force some spells through, but I'd rather take discard against them anyday. Control matchups are already ok post-board anyway, as you have 10-12 discard outlets depending on how you board for them, and you just pluck their hand away and drop bomb after bomb.

Gorilla Shaman is a good suggestion as it sticks around and can hit multiple artifacts, but what I'm worried most about is Umezawa's Jitte, which it would cost 5 to kill. Needle isn't as big of a threat to me as Jitte, so I need to stay with Tin Street. Post-board Needles can deal with Jitte though, so maybe it would eventually find a slot.

[jazzykat]

First I would like to say that I think that this deck is really cool. I have 1 question: How does this deck function w/o survival. Can it win because sometimes a needle or a disenchant, or a preemptive duress will take out survival.

[Di]

Did you read my post at all? If not, I'll just bring out a few clips of it:

But with basically 3 silver bullets, the deck has greatly cut down on it's number of weaker slots and maximized it's threat density to the point where running without a Survival isn't an issue at all. With that said, lets go to card choices...

Dark Confidant: The other reason I went to the black splash. It's the Survival on legs, and allows the deck to create an advantage without Survival on the table. Originally it was up to 4, but between drawing multiples and hitting 4cc creatures (which it doesn't do nearly as often as you'd think) I decided to cut down to 3. I think it's the right number, and it's been working insanely well.

Also - just look at the decklist. It runs barely any bullet creatures, and of the bullets it does run, the only one that is really "weak" is Tin Street Hooligan. Every other slot is capable of pulling its own. Without Survival this deck functions a lot like RGSA without it, except you still have draw outlets with Brainstorm and Dark Confidant, so you still generate card advantage (not to mention can find Survival). If not, you still have a handful of beaters to just get into the red zone.

[troopatroop]

I like it because it's more resilient, and still has the ability to go fucking insane with Ranger/Rofellos, which was all it ever needed.

<3

[Lego]

UGW Threshold: Favorable. Threshold is a favorable matchup for Survival in general because of your overwhelming number of threats and their lack of them. I believe most Survival players will agree with me here.

Fixed.

[CynicalSquirrel]

Have you thought about Scryb Ranger in place of Quirion Ranger? I've found when I've played Survival decks like this that the one mana is usually worth it to be able to Survival it and play it at instant speed. Plus you'd be surprised how much a little pro blue flier can shut down Faerie Stompy's attack.

Also, Sensei's Divining Top could be an interesting inclusion to go alongside Confidant and the massive amount of shuffling engines the deck has. However, it's probably overkill alongside Brainstorm.

I really do like the list though, I'll have to try it out.

[Di]

Have you thought about Scryb Ranger in place of Quirion Ranger? I've found when I've played Survival decks like this that the one mana is usually worth it to be able to Survival it and play it at instant speed. Plus you'd be surprised how much a little pro blue flier can shut down Faerie Stompy's attack.

I really do like the list though, I'll have to try it out.

There was a point where I actually had both Quirion Ranger and Scryb Ranger in the deck, and that was a wasted slot, so I then tried just the Scryb Ranger. At first I really liked Scryb Ranger, and as you noted its ability to shut down Faerie Stompy's attackers, but I eventually realized that the extra mana was making a large difference in some scenarios that it wouldn't be an issue with Quirion Ranger. These included times such as opening a one land hand or hand with Birds of Paradise, and the extra mana was costing me from playing him or not adding enough to play another spell. I know that might seem like a trivial point, but it really makes a difference in some games because of that small speed bump. With Survival, there were some issues with it because that extra mana caused me to not play an FTK to kill a creature in a turn that I normally would be able to had it been Quirion Ranger.

Basically in Survival decks you aim to have the cheapest creatures available because the deck is incredibly mana hungry and tries to squeeze as much as possible. However, if Faerie Stompy is around then it's definately worth running it because Faerie Stompy can be a rather difficult matchup for the deck, not to mention Scryb Ranger dodges Chalice for 1 which Q won't.

[rsaunder]

Ranger was also quite the 1-drop against deadguy/sui style decks, where it might be difficult to get 2 free mana otherwise. It's definitely not a primary concern, but it's certainly an advantage that can't be overlooked. I hear bouncing lands is some good against decks like that.

[Slay]

I played this deck last year, and the main thing I noticed was how horribly weak it was agaisnt a first turn lackey. You only have 4 maindeck creatures that don't die to fanatic/incinerator 2nd turn that can block lackey, and that gave goblins a ridiculous advantage over my deck.

Might I suggest to you that 3 Mogg Fanatics belong in the Werebear slots?

[troopatroop]

When approaching your second turn, and you have the option between Confidant and Survival, which would you chose? Considering that both of them are bombs and need to be answered for your non combo opponent to win, Survival moreso that Confidant, Which is the stronger play? From my perspective, it depends largely on the gamestate. If you're on the draw and your opponent has UU untapped, confidant might be better to bait the counter, but in the same regard, if they're holding STP, you just gave them more time to draw and answer Survival next turn, when they may not have had the counter. Granted, if you don't have the 3rd land drop in your hand, Confidant is probably always the stronger play, giving you twice the chance to rip land off the top. That is of course assuming that you didnt play first turn BOP, which with Survival would probably be enough mana to get the Engine running, and dodge Daze in the process. Then again... if you played BOP first turn and it got STP'd, Confidant always seems like a stronger play. Going unanswered aganst Thresh is probably bringing enough threat to seal it.

Against Goblins, Survival always seems stronger. Your only hope against them is to go Nuts on their face, and with 4 Fanatic 4 Gempalm to consider, Survival as alot more likely to get you there.

Against Solidarity... idk. Alot of your pressure with Solidarity stems from Cabal therapy and recursion with Witnesses. Tradewind/Ranger is also a threat to them. Basically, you want the route that will get you to either of those points the fastest. I'd be inclined to go with Survival, because of it's general nastiness with Werebears and hyper acceleration. I'm not sure I would make that play post board, when I had alot more non creature answers to draw into, but pre-board sure.

Am I correct on these assumptions Di?

[jazzykat]

Did you read my post at all? If not, I'll just bring out a few clips of it:
Also - just look at the decklist. It runs barely any bullet creatures, and of the bullets it does run, the only one that is really "weak" is Tin Street Hooligan. Every other slot is capable of pulling its own. Without Survival this deck functions a lot like RGSA without it, except you still have draw outlets with Brainstorm and Dark Confidant, so you still generate card advantage (not to mention can find Survival). If not, you still have a handful of beaters to just get into the red zone.

I did read it but I had to ask anyway. I see so many Survival decks (as you have alluded to in your first post) and a good many of them claim to play well without Survival.

Fundamentally Survival is probably the most busted card in the format. However, just being able to topdeck and drop a "d00d" (better with anger of course) does not seem like too good of a plan. I think that your deck has done the most to mitigate this situation but you are still left with the reality that your survival will be shutdown after sideboard very quickly by a competent player either via needle, counterspell, or disenchant effect.

That said, I really like the addition of Bob. Someone has already mentioned using top in this deck. About 8 months ago I worked on a Survival TNT deck and used tops to great effect. Obviously, I got to weld the top (when welder lived) but with Bob, Top is just silly. Top does increase the mana use in a mana hungry deck but I like using it to dig later in the game when my hand is spent out. My first few turns with a survival deck are about setting up, and while brainstorm is exceptional at setting up I would rather be casting, mana dudes, cabal therapy, and of course survival.

I think that pushing Bob up to 4 and replacing brainstorm with Top could prove very interesting. That may take us to the direction of RGBSA because all that you need to do is cut the Tradewind riders at that point.

Lastly, someone suggested cutting Werebears for Mogg Fananatics. Another idea would be to use Kirdapes because they have to decide to waste your Taiga and Incinerate next turn if you can't find a forest.

Also, to kick lackey in the sack play Festering Goblin. Perhaps questionable against the rest of the field but quite funny against opposing creatures when sacced to a Cabal Therapy (I realize he may be a liability if there are no other creatures but yours, but we are talking about stopping lackey here).

Lastly, what about Werebear's smaller and untargetable brother in arms Nimble Mongoose. A beater when you have Threshold and a sure fire answer to Lackey.

[Bongo]

I think that pushing Bob up to 4 and replacing brainstorm with Top could prove very interesting. That may take us to the direction of RGBSA because all that you need to do is cut the Tradewind riders at that point.

This also crossed my mind. I think EATS would greatly benefit by going down to GRB. This allows you to run the 4th Confidant, more Witness, Top and Duress, which nicely assists Therapy and Witness.

Masticore also might be better as the 3rd FTK, as I rarely took down big creatures with it. The only time where Masticore shined was against Angel Stompy (Silver Knight/Priest/MoR), but in all other matchups I rather have the 3rd FTK.

[Di]

I played this deck last year, and the main thing I noticed was how horribly weak it was agaisnt a first turn lackey. You only have 4 maindeck creatures that don't die to fanatic/incinerator 2nd turn that can block lackey, and that gave goblins a ridiculous advantage over my deck.

Might I suggest to you that 3 Mogg Fanatics belong in the Werebear slots?

This is an issue I've addressed a number of times, and it continues to be one of the bigger ones for the deck. The biggest time it is an issue for the deck is game 1, on the draw. Any other situation it isn't as bad, because on the play you have 8 outlets to stop Lackey (Wall + Cabal Therapy), and post-sideboard it isn't as intimidating when you have Goblin Pyromancer and Engineered Plague in the deck.

Fanatic is a solid answer for it, but for the removal slots it's far too weak to be an inclusion. There's also a lack of space. Cutting Werebear would create two problems for this deck:

- Fewer accelerants (believe it or not they do add mana)

- Fewer beatsticks. Ripping a Werebear midgame without Survival is a solid draw because it will most likely be a 4/4 beater which is not a bad draw. Compare this to midgame when you're running without a Survival and draw a measly Mogg Fanatic. That sure as hell won't go the distance against control.

When approaching your second turn, and you have the option between Confidant and Survival, which would you chose? Considering that both of them are bombs and need to be answered for your non combo opponent to win, Survival moreso that Confidant, Which is the stronger play? [b]From my perspective, it depends largely on the gamestate.[b/]

See the bold, you answered your own question. I really can't comment on it because there are too many variables you have to factor in, such as the opponent's deck, game state, the rest of your hand, etc. Either play is solid, but more often than not regardless of the deck I'm going to probably try to force through Survival.

Against Goblins, Survival always seems stronger. Your only hope against them is to go Nuts on their face, and with 4 Fanatic 4 Gempalm to consider, Survival as alot more likely to get you there.

Survival is always the stronger play on turn 2 against Goblins, unless you desperately need something to block Goblin Lackey. Untapping your lands with a Survival in play means you will be playing removal spells for the next few turns, and have a much better chance of sealing the game.

Against Solidarity... idk. Alot of your pressure with Solidarity stems from Cabal therapy and recursion with Witnesses. Tradewind/Ranger is also a threat to them. Basically, you want the route that will get you to either of those points the fastest. I'd be inclined to go with Survival, because of it's general nastiness with Werebears and hyper acceleration. I'm not sure I would make that play post board, when I had alot more non creature answers to draw into, but pre-board sure.

Against Solidarity, I would probably play Survival first. If it resolves great if not it's ok. Confidant is important in that matchup because it can find Cabal Therapy. Game 1 is really hard for the deck though because of the lack of disruption, so it's important to hit a Tradewind into play asap so you can do something to stop them. If you're able to secure a Twind into play before they reach 4-5 lands then you can most likely win, but otherwise you got little chance.

I think that your deck has done the most to mitigate this situation but you are still left with the reality that your survival will be shutdown after sideboard very quickly by a competent player either via needle, counterspell, or disenchant effect.

The only real problem out of those examples is Counterspell, because Survival never saw play. Against Needle, you still have the few outs in the deck to stop it in Tin Street Hooligan and Tradewind Rider, and against Disenchant you tutor up Eternal Witness in response, assuming you weren't stupid enough to tap out playing it against a deck with access to Disenchant.

I think that pushing Bob up to 4 and replacing brainstorm with Top could prove very interesting. That may take us to the direction of RGBSA because all that you need to do is cut the Tradewind riders at that point.

In my card choices section I discussed a little why I don't run 4 Bob, and I probably won't go back up to 4. Seeing them in multiples is just bad. And you're insane to cut Brainstorm for a card that is slower and can be Needled. Brainstorm is one of the best cards in the deck because it can turn a bad hand into a good one, and can be an amazing topdeck. If I were to run anything over something like that it would be Sylvan Library, but I prefer Bob to that because Bob you can at least attack with and pitch to Survival.

Lastly, someone suggested cutting Werebears for Mogg Fananatics. Another idea would be to use Kirdapes because they have to decide to waste your Taiga and Incinerate next turn if you can't find a forest.

Both Kird Ape and Mogg Fanatic would force a bigger role for red into this deck. That's something that would only strain an already fragile manabase even more. The only color for Lackey answers should be green because every land will cast it.

Lastly, what about Werebear's smaller and untargetable brother in arms Nimble Mongoose. A beater when you have Threshold and a sure fire answer to Lackey.

A lot of people have discussed with me about adding Nimble Mongoose into the deck for Goblin Lackey. It's debatable, but the only slots I'd really feel it could go in for are those who are already there for Goblin Lackey (Tinder Wall). It's possible they could go in for Werebear, but as I mentioned earlier that hurts the deck in a number of ways (a 3/3 pales in comparison to a 4/4) but if it ends up being that big of an issue then it'll have to be done.

[Bongo]

In my card choices section I discussed a little why I don't run 4 Bob, and I probably won't go back up to 4. Seeing them in multiples is just bad. And you're insane to cut Brainstorm for a card that is slower and can be Needled.

I'm pretty sure the first Needle goes on Survival. By the time the second Needle hits play, the Top has already done its job.
I don't think you should dismiss Top as lightly. While the initial cost is higher than a Brainstorm, the Top allows you to continually manipulate your library, which is really really good, especially with Confidant.

I also don't get how you think multiple Confidants is a bad thing unless you're on a really low life total. Even then, Top can reduce the damage and quite frankly, the game should be over in short time if you're drawing 3 cards per turn.


4 Survival of the Fittest
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Duress
2 Sensei's Divining Top

3 Eternal Witness
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Anger
1 Genesis

4 Dark Confidant
3 Flametongue Kavu
1 Bone Shredder
1 Tin Street Hooligan
1 Ravenous Baloth

4 Tinder Wall
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Werebear
1 Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary

4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bayou
3 Taiga
5 Forest

Survival + Top is really good at searching out the Therapy/Duress/Witness engine.
Not to mention that going down to 3 colors improves your manabase significantly.

Did you test a GRB version? If so, what made you choose GRBU over GRB?

[jazzykat]

Also, Hi-Val wrote up an article using Sylvan Library (an idea also mentioned in this thread). It's similar to topping every turn.

Also, my second target after survival when playing against you is Rofellos, and third is confidant (I never like to see him on the board unless my opponent is at an insanely low life). You say 3 is enough but he would have my creature removal 3-X on his forehead.

[Pinder]

Also, Hi-Val wrote up an article using Sylvan Library (an idea also mentioned in this thread). It's similar to topping every turn.

I actually really liked this option because, as hi-val mentioned, it lets you keep more than one card if you need to. And since you have Baloth you can help offest the lifeloss (not the best use, but it's there). Combined with Confidant, you can stack the triggers appropriately to avoid lifeloss from Bob and, if need be, keep one of them to draw 3 cards in one turn. Now that's sexy. The only downside I can really see is that it costs more than Barinstorm and Top.