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Thread: [Deck] Red Death

  1. #481

    Re: [Deck] Red Death

    Quote Originally Posted by CRich3 View Post
    I'm disappointed that I have never heard of this deck until now, now I must play it. Anyone have a recent decklist?
    Just take this list...

    https://youtu.be/z9Aq3-I1bkU

    But improve it by splashing red for Bolt and Kroxa and adding some fetches, shocks and a dual.

  2. #482
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    Re: [Deck] Red Death

    Ragavan makes this interesting again.

    RB Ragadeath


    //Creatures: 20
    4 Ragavan, Nimble Pilferer
    4 Death's Shadow
    4 Asylum Visitor
    4 Grief
    4 Street Wraith

    //Spells: 22
    4 Thoughtseize
    4 Reanimate
    4 Faithless Looting
    4 Lightning Bolt
    2 Sudden Edict
    2 Snuff Out
    2 Prismatic Ending

    //Lands: 18
    4 Wasteland
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    3 Marsh Flats
    1 Arid Mesa
    2 Blood Crypt
    1 Godless Shrine
    1 Sacred Foundry
    1 Mountain
    1 Swamp

    //Sideboard: 15
    3 Surgical Extraction
    2 Mindbreak Trap
    2 Red Elemental Blast
    1 Pyroblast
    1 Prismatic Ending
    1 Rip Apart
    1 Meltdown
    1 Nihil Spellbomb
    1 Karakas
    2 Fury
    1 Sulfuric Vortex


    Ragavan and Griefanimator make early pressure before Shadow is online.

    The deck shreds hands and boards so the 1 drops can get there. Ragavan functions as R: "Duress" or "Pacifism", efficiently trading with one of opponent's few remaining resources even if it doesn't "go off". Otherwise Ragavan and Asylum restock the hand.

    Possibly +4 Hymn to Tourach -4 Looting/Visitor
    Or +2 Chain Lightning or Price of Progress (functions as pump spell + dome with Shadow)
    Last edited by FTW; 07-14-2021 at 04:20 AM.

  3. #483

    Re: [Deck] Red Death

    I would replace Asylum Visitor with Dauthi Voidwalker.

    And I might try Confidant in place of Street Wraith.

    Dragon’s Rage Channeler might be worth some slots along with Unholy Heat. You would need to add some Baubles to make that happen though. At which point it could make sense to accommodate Lurrus.

    I would cut white and instead add Dark Ritual and Hymn and Liliana. Enables so many explosive turn 1s. Also helps with Delerium.

  4. #484
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    Re: [Deck] Red Death

    Lurrus is banned in Legacy, otherwise Lurrus would be everywhere.

    Visitor is replacing Bob, to make up for card disadvantage from Grief etc without killing the life total (Wraith, Grief). Turn 1 Grief is also a thing that's really worth doing, especially if the deck has ways to recoup card disadvantage. Bob replacing Wraith could also work, making room for Voidwalker over Visitor at some strain to the mana.

    White is to answer permanent types RB struggles with, something that Ritual+Liliana doesn't help with. Could just cut it but then the deck needs some other game plan against these things besides discard.

  5. #485

    Re: [Deck] Red Death

    I would consider Unholy Heat, Angrath’s Rampage or Kolaghans Command.

    Cutting white greatly improves the mana base so you could accommodate Dauthi Voidwalker, Hymn, Dark Rituals, more basics and sideboard in blood moons. Cut Faithless Looting as well. Bob is just better.

  6. #486
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    Re: [Deck] Red Death

    Rampage does at least kill Chalice and walkers and fatties, though it misses enchantments. Without Prismatic the deck has no ways to deal with a resolved enchantment. SB Ratchet Bomb?

    Rip Apart or other white disenchants can also kill Urza's Saga while Abrade can't. What's a good solution for that gap? Blood Moons?


    //Creatures: 20
    4 Ragavan, Nimble Pilferer
    4 Death's Shadow
    4 Dauthi Voidwalker
    4 Grief
    4 Street Wraith

    //Spells: 22
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Reanimate
    4 Thoughtseize
    4 Hymn to Tourach
    2 Sudden Edict
    2 Angrath's Rampage
    2 Snuff Out

    //Lands: 18
    4 Wasteland
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    2 Prismatic Vista
    1 Polluted Delta
    3 Blood Crypt
    2 Mountain
    2 Swamp

    //Sideboard: 15
    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 Cling to Dust
    2 Blood Moon
    2 Red Elemental Blast
    1 Pyroblast
    1 Abrade
    1 Meltdown
    1 Blazing Volley
    1 Sulfuric Vortex
    2 Ratchet Bomb


    Bob is better in a vacuum, but can't the lifeloss be dangerous in a Shadow deck, especially running 4 cmcs and no sac outlets or lifegain? One good thing about Visitor is you have much more control over the life loss, even if it draws fewer cards.

    Improving the manabase and cutting Street Wraith all make the Shadow plan harder too. While this runs more generically good cards, can it actually make an early Shadow? Is Shadow the next cut here?

    Looting did have some modes like discarding + Reanimating Grief/Fury while drawing cards, pitching to Fury, or filtering through dead discard or removal depending on the game state. Without Looting, I cut Fury too.

    Edit: Cut Bob and added Wraith back
    Last edited by FTW; 07-14-2021 at 02:08 PM.

  7. #487

    Re: [Deck] Red Death

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    decklist
    I was thinking about a concept very similar to this the other day
    I think rather than looking towards cut shadow you instead want wraith (probably instead of bob) in this deck just to make sure your 4x reanimates are live more reliably and then the fact that it's a better shadow enabler is just a side-benefit

  8. #488
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    Re: [Deck] Red Death

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Rampage does at least kill Chalice and walkers and fatties, though it misses enchantments. Without Prismatic the deck has no ways to deal with a resolved enchantment. SB Ratchet Bomb?

    Rip Apart or other white disenchants can also kill Urza's Saga while Abrade can't. What's a good solution for that gap? Blood Moons?


    //Creatures: 20
    4 Ragavan, Nimble Pilferer
    4 Death's Shadow
    4 Dauthi Voidwalker
    4 Grief
    4 Street Wraith

    //Spells: 22
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Reanimate
    4 Thoughtseize
    4 Hymn to Tourach
    2 Sudden Edict
    2 Angrath's Rampage
    2 Snuff Out

    //Lands: 18
    4 Wasteland
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    2 Prismatic Vista
    1 Polluted Delta
    3 Blood Crypt
    2 Mountain
    2 Swamp

    //Sideboard: 15
    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 Cling to Dust
    2 Blood Moon
    2 Red Elemental Blast
    1 Pyroblast
    1 Abrade
    1 Meltdown
    1 Blazing Volley
    1 Sulfuric Vortex
    2 Ratchet Bomb


    Bob is better in a vacuum, but can't the lifeloss be dangerous in a Shadow deck, especially running 4 cmcs and no sac outlets or lifegain? One good thing about Visitor is you have much more control over the life loss, even if it draws fewer cards.

    Improving the manabase and cutting Street Wraith all make the Shadow plan harder too. While this runs more generically good cards, can it actually make an early Shadow? Is Shadow the next cut here?

    Looting did have some modes like discarding + Reanimating Grief/Fury while drawing cards, pitching to Fury, or filtering through dead discard or removal depending on the game state. Without Looting, I cut Fury too.

    Edit: Cut Bob and added Wraith back
    You could also just splash white for wear/tear or rip apart. favoring wear/tear because of saga recently tho.

    Also, DRC is so powerful. But then you want baubles also, and possibly gurmag.

  9. #489
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    Re: [Deck] Red Death

    Quote Originally Posted by itrytostorm View Post
    You could also just splash white for wear/tear or rip apart. favoring wear/tear because of saga recently tho.

    Also, DRC is so powerful. But then you want baubles also, and possibly gurmag.
    That's what my list above did, also splashing for Prismatic Ending. Captain Hammer pointed out it makes the mana weaker and harder to play cards like Hymn and Voidwalker. Maybe the splash is still worth it.

    DRC is strong but I don't think there's room for DRC + Ragavan + Death's Shadow in the same deck. They push the deck in different directions. Bauble takes up space that would be used by Shadow enablers (Wraith, Reanimate). Ragavan fills is here as a card advantage engine, otherwise there would need to be Bob or some other draw, but Bob doesn't play so well with the Shadow package.

  10. #490

    Re: [Deck] Red Death

    Red Death should be built on a curve similar to Delver, but with removal spells, baubles and discard subbing in for cantrips...

    This is what I would try...

    //Creatures: 16
    4 Dragon’s Rage Channeler
    4 Ragavan, Nimble Pilferer
    4 Dark Confidant
    4 Dauthi Voidwalker

    //Instants: 10
    2-3 Dark Ritual
    2-3 Lightning Bolt
    1-2 Unholy Heat
    1-2 Sudden Edict
    1-2 Kolaghan’s Command

    //Sorcery: 10
    4 Thoughtseize
    4 Hymn to Tourach
    1 Reanimate
    1 Angrath's Rampage

    //Artifacts: 5
    4 Mishra’s Bauble
    1 Retrofitter Foundry

    //Enchantment Lands: 3
    3 Urza’s Saga

    //Other Lands: 16
    4 Badlands
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    3 Prismatic Vista
    2 Swamp
    1 Mountain
    1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    1 Volrath’s Stronghold/Agadeem’s Awakening/Wasteland

    //Sideboard: 15
    3 Blood Moon
    2 Abrade
    2 Red Elemental Blast
    1 Pyroblast
    1 Surgical Extraction
    1 Sulfuric Vortex
    1 Ratchet Bomb
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Relic of Progenitus
    1 Nihil Spellbomb
    1 Grafdigger’s Cage

    If you like Death’s Shadow or Grief and want to find a way to squeeze them into the above list, that should work just fine.
    Last edited by Clark Kant; 07-16-2021 at 11:55 PM.

  11. #491
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    Re: [Deck] Red Death

    If you cut Death's Shadow it's just some RB aggro deck. Shadow is the namesake behind "Red Death". This archetype is literally BR Death's Shadow.dec

    You could play RB aggro with Ragavan + DRC but it won't be able to match Delver's level of tempo without Daze+FoW+Wasteland. Urza's Saga clashes with everything the aggro strategy is trying to do other than making Delirium. Not clear that strategy is any better than playing BR Shadow or UR Delver.

  12. #492

    Re: [Deck] Red Death

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    If you cut Death's Shadow it's just some RB aggro deck. Shadow is the namesake behind "Red Death".
    It's not. The deck predates Death's Shadow by years. Check out the first page of the thread. It started as Suicide Black plus burn. The name is from the Poe story.

    Edit: to be clear, I agree with the spirit of your remarks. Just not this specific claim.
    "I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each. I do not think they will sing to me." -T.S. Eliot

    RIP Ari

    Legacy UGB River Rock primer Click here to comment

  13. #493

    Re: [Deck] Red Death

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    If you cut Death's Shadow it's just some RB aggro deck. Shadow is the namesake behind "Red Death". This archetype is literally BR Death's Shadow.dec

    You could play RB aggro with Ragavan + DRC but it won't be able to match Delver's level of tempo without Daze+FoW+Wasteland. Urza's Saga clashes with everything the aggro strategy is trying to do other than making Delirium. Not clear that strategy is any better than playing BR Shadow or UR Delver.
    As already pointed out, Red Death is a Sui Black with a red splash. Death’s Shadow was never an integral aspect of the deck.

    I really dont think Death Shadow can function without the blue xerox cantrip shell to help find the Shadow. If you build your whole deck to lose life in order to cast Shadow early, your deck needs tons of cantrips to help find that Shadow every game.

    I also dont think Death’s Shadow is a powerful enough threat to warrant all the life loss anymore. Its 1cc vanilla beater that can get large when youre low on life. It made sense back when threats were weaker than they are today, back when Tarmogoyf vastly outshined other creatures. It doesnt make as much sense anymore now that 1cc powerhouses like Ragavan and DRC exist.

  14. #494

    Re: [Deck] Red Death

    Scratch what I wrote earlier. Reanimating Street Wraith type shenanigans as well as Street Wraith’s and Thoughtseize’s synergy with Dragon’s Rage Channeler are very worthwhile.

    Those cards alone might make Death’s Shadow worth it as a threat.

    As much as I hate Ragaven being an $80 staple, I do think that its too powerful not to run. It and DRC made Temur Vaka Nought very solid and I think they would do the same to both Red Death and Death Shadow and Temur Death Nought.

    Its just hard to squeeze all these cards in together alongside 4 Mishra’s Bauble.

    Here is hoping Ragavan gets banned in Modern soon so that its price falls to something reasonable for legacy and commander players.

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