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Thread: [Deck] Red Death

  1. #21
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    Re: [DTW] Red Death

    I was a great proponent of 4x Giant in the main, but I have recently been running into situations where I can either not feed the single giant or I draw a second one. Thats a problem imo. Anurid is fine, just use your head when you play it. If you drop it against TES you deserve to lose.
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  2. #22
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    Re: [DTW] Red Death


    You can give Avalanche Riders a shot at that 16th creature slot.... really, I'm not sure, but even Blazing Specter works too.
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  3. #23
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    Re: [DTW] Red Death

    Quote Originally Posted by blackguard90 View Post
    but you don't control anurid's drawback. For gator, you choose to WHAT to sac, for giant, you choose to remove, for something like fleshreaver, you choose to lose (life, although he might cause you to lose ) but for anurid, your opponent tells you how much you lose, which is BAD! You don't want to be wining, then suddenly the goblin player vials out a siege gang, then plays matron and vials out another siege gang, when your holding a chain lighhtning and he's at 2.
    Now, think with me.

    If a gob player drop 2 siege gang on the table, you'll probably gonna loose anyway, with or without Anurid. 2 siege gang + 1 matron = 9 goblins (without couting a possible warchief or whatever...). If you don't have a plague, how you're gonna answer that. Am I wrong?

    So, as you see, the player looses the game, not Anurid. It's not fair to blame the creature.

    "If you drop it against TES you deserve to lose." Yup, pretty much that.
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  4. #24
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    Re: [DTW] Red Death

    To me, it seems that the already not so easy ******** matchup (especially with a red splash) could become even harder with the substitution of Tarmogoyf for Werebear (like Bardo proposed), as it would often become a sizeable blocker faster than Mongoose or Werebear, if for instance I play a discard spell, a land is getting fetched, and the Threshold player plays a cantrip in the first two turns. Rotting Giant might become a bit better then, but still, I wonder how the percentages are post-Future Sight against ********, and how this could be remedied (in addition to Dystopias in the board). I don't like Crypt much since its effect on the board is only indirect, and thus it somehow doesn't seem to be aggressive enough, and I don't know many other matchups where I would want to bring it in against (for example, it obviously hurts Loam, but it should be a better strategy to enhance the beatdown while they pay two mana every turn to gain card advantage).

    Any thoughts on this ?
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  5. #25
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    Re: [DTW] Red Death

    How about just running Leyline of the Void? Threshold and many other decks seem to be adopting Needle en masse as an answer to Crypt, and Leyline dodges that as well as countermagic. We have the means to hardcast Leyline as well if we happen to draw it late.

    It might also be worth considering that Leyline is one of the few answers to Hulk Flash, which barring errata/bannings is very likely to be Tier One after Future Sight.
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  6. #26

    Re: [DTW] Red Death

    Well, Tarmogoyf is very much resistant to everything this deck have. Because in the match-up, its consistently a 4/5 for 2, maybe 3/4 at times. Its toughness is out of bolt range, and crypt isn't so good, as it only takes their graveyard, while you still have instants, lands, sorceries and creatures in your own yard. A way to remedy this is of course dystopia, but I agree that Tarmogoyf makes the first game slightly harder.

    Leyline can be a nice addition, but the chances that you get 1 in your starting hand (4 in deck) is around 27%. Which means you have to mulligan aggressively. And also, consider that Leyline only takes care of Mongoose, it does nothing against Tarmogoyf, except maybe make it a 4/5 instead of a 5/6.

    Now, Planar Void is another option! But it shuts down rotting giant, against threshold wretched is just as good.
    Another option is sideboard Diabolic Edicts, which does so much better than chain lightning, etc.

  7. #27
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    Re: [DTW] Red Death

    Chance of drawing one leyline with 4 in the deck is 40%

  8. #28
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    Re: [DTW] Red Death

    I think Tarmogoyf should not be discussed yet as it will not be legal for the GP. Let's keep the discussion on tuning this deck for that event for now.
    they haunt minds...

  9. #29

    Re: [DTW] Red Death

    Leyline can be a nice addition, but the chances that you get 1 in your starting hand (4 in deck) is around 27%. Which means you have to mulligan aggressively. And also, consider that Leyline only takes care of Mongoose, it does nothing against Tarmogoyf, except maybe make it a 4/5 instead of a 5/6.
    But it takes care of Monkey Pilot Wins...uh, I mean, Hulk Flash.

  10. #30
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    Re: [DTW] Red Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Hummingbird TG View Post
    But it takes care of Monkey Pilot Wins...uh, I mean, Hulk Flash.


    Leyine of the Void does nothing against CRET Belcher. How does Red Death expect to win this matchup? You really have to win the die roll in this matchup and keep a good hand with a least one discard spell you can cast on the first turn. I think its the hardest combo matchup to win, because Belcher is so fast.


    I'm a big fan of Red Death, but if Belcher is gaining popularity, it becomes a very problematic matchup to face.
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  11. #31
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    Re: [DTW] Red Death

    Quote Originally Posted by nickrit2000 View Post
    Leyine of the Void does nothing against CRET Belcher. How does Red Death expect to win this matchup? You really have to win the die roll in this matchup and keep a good hand with a least one discard spell you can cast on the first turn. I think its the hardest combo matchup to win, because Belcher is so fast.


    I'm a big fan of Red Death, but if Belcher is gaining popularity, it becomes a very problematic matchup to face.
    I dont know, needle maindeck and in the board has been considered before and needle is a card that can be used in just about every matchup so if you are affraid of belcher try and find some room for pithing needle.
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  12. #32

    Re: [DTW] Red Death

    Quote Originally Posted by nickrit2000 View Post
    Leyine of the Void does nothing against CRET Belcher. How does Red Death expect to win this matchup? You really have to win the die roll in this matchup and keep a good hand with a least one discard spell you can cast on the first turn. I think its the hardest combo matchup to win, because Belcher is so fast.


    I'm a big fan of Red Death, but if Belcher is gaining popularity, it becomes a very problematic matchup to face.

    I don't care for belcher. The deck doesn't win consistently turn 1, and you'd be an idiot if you kept a hand with no disruption anyways. All it takes is 1 duress or hymn to kick his ass, so it won't matter. And some people are packing cabal therapies in the board. getting a discard spell isn't the problem, there is a 85-90% chance you will have 1 duress or hymn, and 40% you will have ritual.

  13. #33
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    Re: [DTW] Red Death

    Quote Originally Posted by blackguard90 View Post
    I don't care for belcher. The deck doesn't win consistently turn 1, and you'd be an idiot if you kept a hand with no disruption anyways. All it takes is 1 duress or hymn to kick his ass, so it won't matter. And some people are packing cabal therapies in the board. getting a discard spell isn't the problem, there is a 85-90% chance you will have 1 duress or hymn, and 40% you will have ritual.

    If you show up for the GP in Columbus, you will care. This might be the number one combo deck that people will bring to the GP. If you don't go first, then you will probably lose the match.
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  14. #34
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    Re: [DTW] Red Death

    I wouldn't be as worried about belcher as I am about hulk flash; that is the truly broken combo deck we need to worry about. However, chalice seems to affect both and might be a good addition to the board. If we ran something that smashed both thresh and combo then we would be in business. How about:

    3 dystopia
    4 chalice of the void
    4 leyline of the void
    4 engineered plague

    We lose jitte which I am not too happy about but then again if the meta stays the way it is that might have to happen. I don't see any way for goblins to beat hulk flash at all. That deck will warp the format if it does not get nerfed before the GP. At least with this board we can fight them with leyline and chalice, as well as fighting CRET with chalice and plague. Thresh should be smashed by chalice, leyline, AND dystopia (wow), while goblins is still acceptable with just the 4 plagues coming in. Thoughts on any of this or where the deck should go? I know Anwar tried chalice but did not seem to like it at Kaddy's (although I don't think he ran into much aggro control...with hulk flash, there should be a big resurgance of all kinds of stifle-happy aggro control decks).
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  15. #35

    Re: [DTW] Red Death

    Dont forget ritual plague on clerics is a pretty good way to slow down hulk/flash as well. It forces them to bounce the plague before they can go off. That mixed with leyline would make for a good matchup post board.

  16. #36
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    Re: [DTW] Red Death

    Plague does not affect the combo. Disciple's triggers will go off as he goes to the yard with the artifact creatures (they all come into play at once). It is the same deal as when you play wrath against affinity. So plague is a no go.
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  17. #37
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    Re: [DTW] Red Death

    The only thing about Chalice in the board for Red Death, is that Chalice usually hurts yourself more than your opponent. You know how many times I've lost games playing Red Death when my opponent goes first turn Chalice for 1.

    I'm not sure if boarding in chalice is the best solution for fast combo. I rather bring in cabal threapy as it as more synergy with the deck, and easy to flashback. Leyine of the Void is definitely something to consider in the board.
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  18. #38
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    Re: [DTW] Red Death

    The thing is, in matchups where you bring in chalice, you are boarding out the burn. Chalice for 1 destroys threshold and you would only be leaving in duress against them. It also severely hobbles combo. Therapy is very strong, and definitely could be put in chalice's place, but I feel running chalice is not a problem (in what matchups would you bring it in against that it would hurt you more than your opponent?).
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  19. #39
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    Re: [DTW] Red Death

    I'd run Therapy in Chalices place if you're worried about Hulk Flash at the GP. Therapy seems strong since it compliments the rest of the discard in the deck and only costs 1cc (as opposed to the 2cc you'd have to spend on Chalice).

  20. #40

    Re: [DTW] Red Death

    Quote Originally Posted by nickrit2000 View Post
    If you show up for the GP in Columbus, you will care. This might be the number one combo deck that people will bring to the GP. If you don't go first, then you will probably lose the match.
    belcher isn't that consistent, and its not consistent in vintage either where the belcher player plays REBs just to counter forces. How the fuck do you know that if I don't go first I lose? From what I see, belcher has a very low turn 1 win percentage and that Red death does not have a negative match-up against it. Belcher haven't seen play in a long time because of its inconsistency. May I remind you that FS is not legal at the GP so pact of negation isn't a viable protection option. In general, Red Death have a positive match-up against all combo decks, especailly solidarity and to a lesser extent storm combos. The only combo deck that cause Red Death to stutter is Flash Hulk, but the deck makes all aggro control look stupid.

    Don't fucking say that I'm going to lose just because i go second, thats clearly not the case. I can bet you 1,000 dollars that you won't get even 3 turn 1 wins in a row unless you stack your deck or cheat. Anyhow, if you want to test I got time on saturdays and sundays, just PM me.

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