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Thread: [Deck] Red Death

  1. #401
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    Re: [Deck] Red Death

    What advantages could magus possibly have over cursed scroll other than being a fifth copy and so on? It is easier to destroy and requires coloured mana to cast. Am I missing something?

  2. #402
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    Re: [Deck] Red Death

    It isn't dead if you have more than one card in your hand. It dies to most removal the same as scroll (deed, EE), instead of grip, seal of primordium and disenchant it dies to swords, snuff out and bolt. Seems pretty equal. It sucks that it costs colored mana.

  3. #403

    Re: [Deck] Red Death

    1) A 1/1 creature IS dead in Red Death (and dead in legacy in general as well); Creatures in Legacy have to have one of 3: either be big, have evasion(and be capable of doing some damage), or have a powerful effect, and preferably more than just one of the 3. Magus has none (in Legacy how many creatures can you kill with 2 damage, and how many do you *want* to kill for 3 mana?)

    2) If we don't even play a single copy of Cursed Scroll (and don't delude yourself that we're doing so for fear of Krosan Grip; very intelligent would be whom that sides in Grip against me, and I would be very grateful to them), it's because its effect is crap for the mana cost. Why would we therefore play an inferior version?
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  4. #404
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    Re: [Deck] Red Death

    Why not just run Cursed Scroll and be infinitely less susceptible to removal? A 1/1 for 1 isn't worth playing, so it's obviously for the ability, at which point the Artifact is just better. It would also play a completely different role than Negator, as it is a slow controlling card rather than a turn 1 5/5 beatstick. Seems like it's not the best choice. Dauthi Marauder as a 3/1 Shadow creature would be better than Magus in Red Death.
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    I personally like spell snare against 2 cc spells, but it really isn't good against spells that aren't 2 cc. With engineered explosives, it is a good card to have against non-land permanents with converted mana cost equal to what you set the explosives to, but it doesn't hit those that have differing cc. Plus, engineered explosives has sunburst.
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    For some odd reason, I find shackles to be superb against creature oriented decks. Of course, the logic behind it is the sooner you can play and activate shackles the better. Although, shackles definitely has it's late game uses as well. It basically counts as a threat and a removal spell simultaneously which is relevant against "not quite shroud" creatures. Also, you should really be running a playset of engineered plagues against merfolks. They can dismantle tribal decks so run more of them.
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  5. #405
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    Re: [Deck] Red Death

    okay there are two main combo decks in my meta. The first is an Aluren Combo deck... the second is a Neo-Hulk Flash deck that utilizes Reveliark Protean Hulk, and various other cards for its win Combination. The deck list I am working on building at the moment looks like the following:

    //Creatures:
    3 Tombstalker
    4 Ashenmoor Gouger
    4 Hypnotic Specter
    4 Nantuko Shade

    //Instants:
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Lightning Bolt

    //Sorceries:
    4 Chain Lightning
    4 Thoughtseize
    4 Hymn to Tourach
    4 Sinkhole

    //Lands:
    7 Snow-Covered Swamp
    1 Snow-Covered Mountain
    3 Badlands
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    3 Polluted Delta
    3 Wasteland

    //Sideboard:
    4 Snuff Out
    4 Leyline of the Void
    4 Engineered Plague
    3 Perish

    Now a friend and I were having a discussion regarding what cards to put into the sideboard of this deck. And he is suggesting the following:

    Friend: Extirpate is horrible
    Friend: You should crush aluren.dec regardless
    .... snip....
    Friend: LOL. Just know that there is an answer out there waiting for you. That being said it's a very solid sideboard card for you anyways.
    Me: what Perish?
    Friend: Nope
    Friend: Something that gives you a big advantage vs aluren
    Friend: And lots of other decks
    Me: sudden spoiling?
    Me: that couldn't be it could it?
    Friend: Nope
    Friend: On the right track though
    Me: its not sudden death is it?
    Friend: No.
    Friend: Although that's a decent idea
    Friend: Although a good aluren player will duress/thoughtseize it before they "go off"
    Me: yeah
    Me: that is my concern
    Me: it isn't Engineered Plague is it? cause that seems to be the only thing it could be
    Me: plus I already have those
    Friend: EP is very good. Naming beast wrecks cavern harpy. But not what I was thinking of

    So does anyone have any clue what it might be that he is referring to in this dialogue? And the reason he refuses to tell me what the card is, is because one of his teammates plays aluren... and he refuses to betray his teammate.... (we all 3 play in the same area)....
    "He's like fire and ice and rage. He's like the night, and the storm in the heart of the sun. He's ancient and forever... He burns at the center of time and he can see the turn of the universe... and... he's wonderful."

  6. #406
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    Re: [Deck] Red Death

    If he's talking about pyrostatic pillar, don't play that. I wouldn't even worry about Aluren- it's a slow combo deck and you play a lot of disruption.

  7. #407
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    Re: [Deck] Red Death

    Quote Originally Posted by dude 666 View Post
    If he's talking about pyrostatic pillar, don't play that. I wouldn't even worry about Aluren- it's a slow combo deck and you play a lot of disruption.
    This.

    Anyway, is said mystery answer board wipe or is it split second? If it's board wipe, Hideous Laughter??? I don't think so. Split Second answers are most likely surmised by Sudden Shock, which is good for killing life combo as well, but Sudden Death would be better anyway and was rejected for the purpose, so... iDunno, but this is horribly interesting.
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  8. #408
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    Re: [Deck] Red Death

    Well, I played this at my local yesterday and got second. It wasn't a huge showing, but it was an average 12 or so people. I really like the deck idea and I've decided I'm gonna run with it and try to build on it. Here's my list:

    Mainboard: 60

    Creatures: 14
    4 Nantuko Shade
    4 Phyrexian Negator
    4 Hypnotic Specter
    2 Dark Confidant

    Spells: 25
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Chain Lightning
    4 Sinkhole
    4 Hymn to Tourach
    4 Dark Ritual
    2 Diabolic Edict
    3 Thoughtseize

    Lands: 21
    4 Badlands
    3 Polluted Delta
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    9 Swamp
    1 Mountain

    Sideboard: 15
    3 Price of Progress
    3 Engineered Plague
    3 Terminate
    3 Shattering Spree
    3 Extirpate

    I couldn't get my hands on Wasteland before the tournament so I didn't use them. They could have come in handy a lot, but oh well I had to make do. My sideboard was way different for the tournament, and though some cards did well, a lot didn't, so I changed it up for the way I want to try it next time.

    I think my match-ups consisted of:
    Some Ub CounterTop variant (2-0) (Easy)
    Goblins (2-0) (Easy)
    TES (2-1) (Game 2 he ripped Brainstorm into Chrome Mox x2 a couple turns after he failed to completely kill me with the FIRST Tendrils)
    Tombstone/Intuition (0-2) (He is pretty comfortable with his deck and I haven't played with Red Death enough)

    I played in a local earlier in the day and didn't do so hot, my match-ups consisted of:
    Goblins (1-2) (I'm still not sure how I lost this, lol)
    Reanimator (2-0) (Easy)
    GeddonStax (2-0) (More annoying)
    Rock (1-2) (Kitchen Finks and Hierarch are really mean guys)

    Anyways, I'm just posting my results, good and bad.

  9. #409
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    Re: [Deck] Red Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackened View Post
    Well, I played this at my local yesterday and got second. It wasn't a huge showing, but it was an average 12 or so people. I really like the deck idea and I've decided I'm gonna run with it and try to build on it. Here's my list:

    Mainboard: 60

    Creatures: 14
    4 Nantuko Shade
    4 Phyrexian Negator (is there any particular reason you don't run Tombstalker in these slots?)
    4 Hypnotic Specter
    2 Dark Confidant (Again, is there any reason to not run TS here? Also, Dark Confidant isn't a tempo-grabbing card, in fact the opposite, so perhaps something else here would be better. Maindeck Terminates?)

    Spells: 25
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Chain Lightning
    4 Sinkhole
    4 Hymn to Tourach
    4 Dark Ritual
    2 Diabolic Edict (For Mongeese, I guese?)
    3 Thoughtseize

    Lands: 21
    4 Badlands
    3 Polluted Delta
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    9 Swamp
    1 Mountain

    Sideboard: 15
    3 Price of Progress
    3 Engineered Plague
    3 Terminate
    3 Shattering Spree
    3 Extirpate



    Goblins (1-2) (I'm still not sure how I lost this, lol) I presume Negator might have had something to do with this?
    Notes in bold.

    The only suggestions I could make are -2 Edicts, -2 Confidant, -4 Negator, +4 Tombstalker, +4 Terminate, considering that 12x removal, 8 of which being burn, is nice (and you get 3 sideboard slots freed up), and that Negaytor makes already difficult agro matches harder, and Tombstalker files, shrinks Tarmogoyf on occasion, and doesn't have a severe drawback like Negator.


    Tangent: welcome to the source I think this is one of the better, if not best first posts I've seen. Take that however you want. At any rate, I think you might want to take a look at the Eva Green thread, considering that it's more focused on the main concept (tempo) and is generally considered the natural evolution of Red Death.

    EDIT: that's not to say that Red Death is a futile endeavor, as you've seen first hand.

    Also, with that newfound free sideboard space, why not try Pyroclasms since you can now run them without nerfing a majority of your creatures, and it's pretty in the goblins, random agro, and occasionally in the Ichorid match? Kinda unorthodox, but it at least looks viable. It'd be nice if there were a bigger replacement for Shade, though :3

    Other thoughts are another E. Plague and two Needles (maybe?), or Jittes for the Agro MU.
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  10. #410
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    Re: [Deck] Red Death

    The good hate card for aluren is probably needle, damping matrix or maybe dystopia? At first I thought aether flash or something, but even though aluren is slowish, aether flash is way to slow.

    Now that I think about it, aluren could play around dystopia. Maybe something like contagion, but you already have suff out in you sb. I figure that needle or matrix may be what your friend is getting at.

  11. #411
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    Re: [Deck] Red Death

    Quote Originally Posted by raharu View Post
    Notes in bold.

    The only suggestions I could make are -2 Edicts, -2 Confidant, -4 Negator, +4 Tombstalker, +4 Terminate, considering that 12x removal, 8 of which being burn, is nice (and you get 3 sideboard slots freed up), and that Negaytor makes already difficult agro matches harder, and Tombstalker files, shrinks Tarmogoyf on occasion, and doesn't have a severe drawback like Negator.
    I haven't tried Tombstalker yet. He definitely seems like a VERY solid choice, though. I think I may drop the Confidants because of how slow they are, as well as the Edicts for targeted removal.

    My take on Negator is if I get him first hand with a Ritual against just about any deck, I'm in good shape. Plus, he isn't too shabby with all of the removal and control the deck provides to set up for his appearance.

    I will definitely try your fixes though. Thanks.

  12. #412
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    Re: [Deck] Red Death

    Quote Originally Posted by raharu View Post
    This.

    Anyway, is said mystery answer board wipe or is it split second? If it's board wipe, Hideous Laughter??? I don't think so. Split Second answers are most likely surmised by Sudden Shock, which is good for killing life combo as well, but Sudden Death would be better anyway and was rejected for the purpose, so... iDunno, but this is horribly interesting.
    My friend says it is not a Split Second card. Nor is it a Board Wiper. So I am not sure what it happens to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordel View Post
    The good hate card for aluren is probably needle, damping matrix or maybe dystopia? At first I thought aether flash or something, but even though aluren is slowish, aether flash is way to slow.

    Now that I think about it, aluren could play around dystopia. Maybe something like contagion, but you already have suff out in you sb. I figure that needle or matrix may be what your friend is getting at.
    Additionally my friend says the card in question is neither Damping Matrix, nor is it Pithing Needle. However he says we are getting warmer
    "He's like fire and ice and rage. He's like the night, and the storm in the heart of the sun. He's ancient and forever... He burns at the center of time and he can see the turn of the universe... and... he's wonderful."

  13. #413
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    Re: [Deck] Red Death

    Additionally my friend says the card in question is neither Damping Matrix, nor is it Pithing Needle. However he says we are getting warmer
    Cursed totem?
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    Re: [Deck] Red Death

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Red_Panda View Post
    Cursed totem?
    We have a winner



    It comes down a turn earlier than Damping Matrix and it shuts off Wall of Roots mana which is key for this deck. It basically leaves them with Stern Proctor as an out

  15. #415
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    Re: [Deck] Red Death

    Okay so with the new tech the list I am looking at building is as follows:

    // Lands
    7 Snow-Covered Swamp
    1 Snow-Covered Mountain (wasteland and sinkhole protection)
    3 Badlands
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    3 Polluted Delta
    3 Wasteland

    // Creatures
    3 Tombstalker
    4 Ashenmoor Gouger (I just like this card better than Phyrexian Negator. A turn slower than the negator, but doesn't rip your resources to pieces if it gets hit)
    4 Hypnotic Specter
    4 Nantuko Shade

    // Spells
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Chain Lightning
    4 Thoughtseize (This should be obvious as to why it is in over Duress?)
    4 Hymn to Tourach
    4 Sinkhole

    // Sideboard
    3 Leyline of the Void (Graveyard Hate)
    3 Snuff Out (Tarmogoyf and Dreadnaught Hate)
    3 Engineered Plague
    3 Perish (Mongoose, and Tarmogoyf Hate)
    3 Cursed Totem (Aluren, Affinity, Mogg Fanatic, Carrion Feeder, etc... hate)

    Just wondering what all everyone thinks? I am not particularly pleased with MWS and not sure how else to test the deck short of proxying it up and testing it in real life. But that would require me getting a person to play against in real life.

    Any ways the deck is probably going to take me a while to finish building (assuming I don't manage to get some or even most of the cards as holiday gifts). Probably won't be entirely finished until sometime in 2010.
    "He's like fire and ice and rage. He's like the night, and the storm in the heart of the sun. He's ancient and forever... He burns at the center of time and he can see the turn of the universe... and... he's wonderful."

  16. #416

    Re: [Deck] Red Death

    My quick take on the newer evolutions of Red Death:
    • If you're not running Tombstalker, you should be. If you're not running 4x, then you should be. Take a look at Eva Green. Now replace Tarmogoyf with Tombstalker. That simple.
    • Phyrexian Negator stays. I suppose if your meta is VERY burn heavy then Gouger could be an adequate replacement. But let's be totally transparent. If your meta is really that burn heavy, then why are you playing Red Death in it? Phyrexian Negator is a better aggressor than gouger. And if you're not the aggressor, then you've lost the game with Red Death.
    • Time for something actually controversial: Drop Sinkhole, run Snuff Out. Sinkhole was for quite some time, considered the weakest card in the deck. (Post Red Death gaining Tombstalkers instead of pansy Rotting Giants and what not.) Sinkhole and Snuff Out serve almost the same role in gaining the Red Death player tempo. Sinkhole costs two extra mana is is typically better at taking out pure control, where Snuff Out is your key tool in a modern Goyf infested environment. Also... it doesn't cost you anything! Really, Goyf was the hurdle that caused Red Death to lost popularity. Snuff Out is the appropriate answer. And in my opinion, a more effective card than Sinkhole is nowadays. Despite how fantastic Sinkhole is.
    Cheers.

  17. #417

    Re: [Deck] Red Death

    Why are we not splashing green for Goyf? I mean normal lists play 6/7 fetches and 8/10 swamps. It shouldn't be so hard to drop 2/3 swamps for Bayou and have the beast our self.

    It got a lot advantages especially with burn to win the Goyf wars.

    BB

  18. #418
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    Re: [Deck] Red Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Galroth View Post
    • If you're not running Tombstalker, you should be. If you're not running 4x, then you should be. Take a look at Eva Green. Now replace Tarmogoyf with Tombstalker. That simple.
    I would agree, Tombstalker is a very good card. Though I don't think that it is absolutely necessary to run 4 in the deck to be absolutely victorius. However 3 is the absolute minimum that should be run for the deck. Though I do like the idea of running 4. I do not particularly like running 4 in my deck list.

    Quote Originally Posted by Galroth View Post
    • Phyrexian Negator stays. I suppose if your meta is VERY burn heavy then Gouger could be an adequate replacement. But let's be totally transparent. If your meta is really that burn heavy, then why are you playing Red Death in it? Phyrexian Negator is a better aggressor than gouger. And if you're not the aggressor, then you've lost the game with Red Death
    I am not a huge fan of the Negator. The only matches where he is particularly favored are matches where your opponent has next to no creatures of their own, or has no direct creature damage. And in a format where Goyf and Mongoose run rampant in almost every control deck in the format, I personally do not see Negator as being a particularly useful card. On the other hand, the Ashenmoor Gouger has far fewer Drawbacks for one less attack power and a lack of Trample. Personally I would rather run the Gouger than the Negator for the simple reason that it doesn't run the risk of screwing my mana or creature base so heavily, when it is targeted by damage of any sort.

    Quote Originally Posted by Galroth View Post
    • Time for something actually controversial: Drop Sinkhole, run Snuff Out. Sinkhole was for quite some time, considered the weakest card in the deck. (Post Red Death gaining Tombstalkers instead of pansy Rotting Giants and what not.) Sinkhole and Snuff Out serve almost the same role in gaining the Red Death player tempo. Sinkhole costs two extra mana is is typically better at taking out pure control, where Snuff Out is your key tool in a modern Goyf infested environment. Also... it doesn't cost you anything! Really, Goyf was the hurdle that caused Red Death to lost popularity. Snuff Out is the appropriate answer. And in my opinion, a more effective card than Sinkhole is nowadays. Despite how fantastic Sinkhole is.
    This idea I actually like, and think is worth some testing. I wonder how many other people are with me on this idea? In any case I wouldn't mind testing both a build that uses Land Disruption and a build that uses Creature Disruption. Though at the moment I am testing the build that uses Land Disruption. However the thing about the creature disruption build, is that I would be able to focus my sideboard more heavily. So actually I think I may go with that more so than the land disruption build... I wonder how many people like that idea.

    This is what I was thinking for a Creature Disruption Build:

    // Lands
    7 Snow-Covered Swamp
    1 Snow-Covered Mountain
    3 Badlands
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    3 Polluted Delta
    3 Wasteland

    // Creatures
    4 Ashenmoor Gouger
    4 Hypnotic Specter
    4 Nantuko Shade
    3 Tombstalker

    // Spells
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Snuff Out
    4 Chain Lightning
    4 Thoughtseize
    4 Hymn to Tourach

    // Sideboard
    4 Leyline of the Void
    4 Engineered Plague
    3 Perish
    4 Cursed Totem

    with the 4th Chain Lightning negotiable for a 4th Tombstalker....
    "He's like fire and ice and rage. He's like the night, and the storm in the heart of the sun. He's ancient and forever... He burns at the center of time and he can see the turn of the universe... and... he's wonderful."

  19. #419
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    Re: [Deck] Red Death

    Why play Perish when you could play Dystopia?
    SummenSaugen: well, I use Chaos Orb, Animate Artifact, and Dance of Many to make the table we're playing on my chaos orb token
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  20. #420
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    Re: [Deck] Red Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Illissius View Post
    Why play Perish when you could play Dystopia?
    Because dystopia can be disenchated, naturalized, or krosan gripped. Dystopia costs life and time. perish kills all the creatures immediately so you can swing ftw. The only white permanents you need to be afraid of are humility, moat, and solitary confinement.

    Pretty much what Ophidian said... and he was the one who suggested I run Perish over Dystopia.
    "He's like fire and ice and rage. He's like the night, and the storm in the heart of the sun. He's ancient and forever... He burns at the center of time and he can see the turn of the universe... and... he's wonderful."

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