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Thread: [Deck] The Polar Express

  1. #1

    [Deck] The Polar Express

    The Polar Express II: When Hell Freezes Over
    as of 11-16-09

    [4x] Tarmogoyf
    [4x] Dark Confidant
    [4x] Thoughtseize
    [3x] Kitchen Finks
    [3x] Pernicious Deed
    [3x] Smother
    [3x] Sensei's Divining Top
    [3x] Living Wish
    [2x] Duress
    [2x] Crucible of Worlds
    [2x] Crop Rotation
    [2x] Vampire Hexmage
    [2x] Eternal Witness

    //Land
    [4x] Verdant Catacombs
    [4x] Bayou
    [4x] Wasteland
    [3x] Swamp
    [2x] Forest
    [1x] Polluted Delta
    [1x] Windswept Heath
    [1x] Volrath's Stronghold
    [1x] Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    [1x] Dark Depths
    [1x] Horizon Canopy

    //Sideboard
    [3x] Krosan Grip
    [3x] Choke
    [1x] Yixlid Jailer
    [1x] Dark Depths
    [1x] Vampire Hexmage
    [1x] Ghost Quarter
    [1x] Shriekmaw
    [1x] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
    [1x] Glacial Chasm
    [1x] Kitchen Finks
    [1x] Wickerbough Elder
    Last edited by Michael Keller; 11-16-2009 at 09:04 PM.

  2. #2
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    Re: [Deck] +~The Polar Express~+

    All I can say is WOW. At first I thought this was just going to be a another Hollywood joke. But after sitting next to you for a couple of rounds and you making the top 8 I must says Congrats.
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  3. #3

    Re: [Deck] +~The Polar Express~+

    Have you considered Jokulmorder?

    EDIT: Nevermind, I thought Jokulmorder only needed to sac three lands.
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  4. #4
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    Re: [Deck] +~The Polar Express~+

    Jokulmorder is a lot more difficult to reanimate and attack with (you need six Islands for that).

    The other blue fattie is Denizen of the Deep, which doesn't have any upkeep, however it also lacks trample so it risks getting chumpblocked into oblivion. It is also a Portal rare, and as such not that easy to find. Maybe a split of Kraken and Denizen could be optimal.
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  5. #5
    Cardboard Messiah
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    Re: [Deck] +~The Polar Express~+

    I like the idea of Polar Kraken as a beater for making Sutured Ghoul bigger.

    Since you already explained all the reasons FOR playing the big man, why are you still playing cloudscraper? Right, he can morph. I don't think your deck is really designed for swamp, rit, morph, go.

    I just don't see why cloudscraper is a viable choice, he doesn't even have trample. He trips over squirrels. I suppose he doesn't come into play tapped, meh. Anything that's at least ten power is good enough, right?
    Sexy

  6. #6

    Re: [Deck] +~The Polar Express~+

    Quote Originally Posted by Nihil View Post
    Jokulmorder is a lot more difficult to reanimate and attack with (you need six Islands for that).

    The other blue fattie is Denizen of the Deep, which doesn't have any upkeep, however it also lacks trample so it risks getting chumpblocked into oblivion. It is also a Portal rare, and as such not that easy to find. Maybe a split of Kraken and Denizen could be optimal.
    I looked at Denizen of the Deep and it really is a house. The whole issue surrounding him is this:

    Pros:
    He's blue and can be Forced away.
    He doesn't hurt horribly off Reanimate (8 as opposed to 11).
    He's an 11/11...which is barely sufficient.
    He has no upkeep.

    Cons:
    He doesn't trample.
    There is a huge difference between a 22/22 trampler and a 26/26 trampler. All they have to do is soak up 3 damage to prevent you from winning.
    You can chump him all day.
    Cloudscraper can be morphed, which is always nice. Because if someone knocks him off, he goes to the graveyard (underneath Ghoul) and helps in the reanimation process.

    I like Cloudscraper better. Bottom line: Your Ghoul at 26/26 is better than 22/22. It's just so close with the power and toughness issue and being able to kill someone. What we need to look at is: Is that an issue?

  7. #7

    Re: [Deck] +~The Polar Express~+

    how do you deal with meddling mage on buried alive? It looks like you don't have any discard outlets, so what do you do to pitch your fatties if they get a mage out? Hope you have a force or something? I guess I can't argue on results, but, man, it seems like your engine is a bit fragile.
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  8. #8
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    Re: [Deck] +~The Polar Express~+

    I worded that in a bad way: by "a split of Kraken and Denizen" I meant 2 Cloudscraper (for the 26/26), 1 Kraken, 1 Denizen.

    And yeah, it isn't important at all. But I'm not very experienced with classic Reanimator, and between Hulk-Flash and my Counter-Rebels I don't have much time to play other decks. I just posted what little useful info I could provide.
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  9. #9
    monkey
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    Re: [Deck] +~The Polar Express~+

    How often do you need to reanimate Kraken in a pinch? I think that would be the biggest factor after the power toughness of Ghoul when choosing your fatties. 22 vs 26 is important but having a consistent plan B is important too.

    I too like Kraken over Cloudscraper. Maybe a 3/1 split would be good. That way you get a 24 and have 2 other krakens to work with for FoW pitching, emergency reanimation etc. Reanimating Kraken is >> than Cloud obviously.

    EDIT: this is awesome.
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  10. #10

    Re: [Deck] +~The Polar Express~+

    Hello,

    Damn this deck looks slick. I have a small tournament next week and I was planning to take IGGy-pop, but I think I will take this one. I like it alot more to have real MD protection instead of Leyline and I do own most of the cards. I only have to obtain one copy of the Kraken and doesn't own the Watery Graves. I do think the manabase needs some tweaking anyhow. I'm going to play some more basics and adding Cabal Pit as a 2-off. Getting Threshold isn't very difficult and it can kill a Mage or a blocker( I'm going to play 4 Krakens). The last point I see is, that you don't play a single bounce spell in MD or SB. Is there any reason for. This means you loose to Moat, Solitary Confinement if they can keep you of balance longe enough to get in play. When I know the excact manabase and SB I will inform you.

    BB

  11. #11

    Re: [Deck] +~The Polar Express~+

    Quote Originally Posted by xsockmonkeyx View Post
    How often do you need to reanimate Kraken in a pinch? I think that would be the biggest factor after the power toughness of Ghoul when choosing your fatties. 22 vs 26 is important but having a consistent plan B is important too.

    I too like Kraken over Cloudscraper. Maybe a 3/1 split would be good. That way you get a 24 and have 2 other krakens to work with for FoW pitching, emergency reanimation etc. Reanimating Kraken is >> than Cloud obviously.

    EDIT: this is awesome.
    The balance of creatures the deck plays as is is perfect - which is to say 6. Remember, you're only going to Buried Alive at most twice in a game - so two Buried Alives equal a total of six creatures which is perfect. Two of these creatures maindeck are obviously going to be Sutured Ghoul. The Polar Kraken count is sufficient. I had all these same thoughts you guys are having right now with the deck and the way it played out was absolutely fine in testing. Denizen of the Deep is really freakin' cool and he is an 11/11...but the balance of creatures is already set and the fact Cloudscraper is 13/13 just wins out over an 11/11. There is a strategy to Buried Aliving - I usually play it Ghoul, Kraken, Cloudscraper. I go 24/24 to start, unless I have a Reanimate in my hand to back up Kraken (if Shallow Grave is countered). Otherwise I go all Cloudscrapers. Reanimate remember can be used against an opponent. It's important to know what to get.

    As for Meddling Mage, U/G/w Thresh is obviously an extremely hard matchup to begin with and the sideboard will be adjusted to help out with that. I run Lim Dul's Vault which essentially stacks my deck so fishing for a Duress first or Force and then Buried Alive is just plain amazing. I did it against Mulletus in Top 4: I stacked Force of Will on top of Buried Alive and had a blue card in hand. I had no problem getting what I need. I also run Brainstorm. This deck can potentially dig from top to bottom and stack it how it needs. Lim Dul's Vault acts as the 5-8 slots of every other card in the deck. That's how good it is.

    I was considering running Wipe Away in the board or one main deck. I'm still working on testing that.

    Cabal Pit is pretty cool and would work well against Mage.

    You need to be careful with four Krakens, as I said above. Being able to prevent up to 3 damage against a 22/22 is huge. I suppose if they fetch once or twice it might hurt them in an extremely bizarre way...

    The mana base is perfect. I never mulliganed once in the tournament in all the games I played. Having access to blue and black mana simultaneously is very important. The two life is irrelevant (unless I need to revert to plan B and Reanimate a Polar Kraken...which is rare).

  12. #12
    monkey
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    Re: [Deck] +~The Polar Express~+

    Quote Originally Posted by A Legend View Post
    There is a strategy to Buried Aliving - I usually play it Ghoul, Kraken, Cloudscraper. I go 24/24 to start, unless I have a Reanimate in my hand to back up Kraken (if Shallow Grave is countered). Otherwise I go all Cloudscrapers. Reanimate remember can be used against an opponent. It's important to know what to get.
    Ahhh, thanks. Makes a lot more sense now.
    info.ninja

  13. #13

    Re: [Deck] +~The Polar Express~+

    Okay everyone, I did some re-working to the main build and cleared up some issues. This is temporary because feedback is of course necessary

    With these changes:

    - Force of Will has become much stronger and more applicable.
    - The Meddling Mage issue has been taken into consideration and dealt with.

    "The Polar Express v.2.0"
    Designer: Michael Keller
    Affiliation: Team Darkness

    //Spells
    [4x] Dark Ritual
    [4x] Duress
    [4x] Reanimate
    [4x] Shallow Grave
    [4x] Lim Dul's Vault
    [4x] Buried Alive
    [4x] Force of Will
    [3x] Brainstorm
    [2x] Sutured Ghoul
    [2x] Polar Kraken
    [2x] Denizen of the Deep
    [1x] Wipe Away

    //Mana
    [4x] Lotus Petal
    [4x] Polluted Delta
    [4x] Underground Sea
    [4x] Watery Grave
    [4x] Bloodstained Mire
    [2x] Cabal Pit

    //Sideboard
    [4x] Stifle
    [4x] Pithing Needle
    [4x] Hydroblast
    [3x] Engineered Plague

    Additions and Subtractions

    +2 Cabal Pit [vs. Meddling Mage, etc.]
    +2 Denizen of the Deep [Force pitch, Ultra-Cool Factor]
    +1 Wipe Away [Meddling Mage, Maze of Ith, etc.]
    +1 Pithing Needle [SB] [Crypt, Maze of Ith, etc.]

    - 2 Krosan Cloudscraper
    - 2 Swamp
    - 1 Brainstorm
    - 1 Engineered Plague [SB]

    With most of the deck functioning properly from the start, I figure a little more protection couldn't hurt. I can still Reanimate Polar Kraken if need be. And at worst, I can also Reanimate another big guy for less of a life cost.

    Ideas and thoughts on this variation.

    Is the loss of Cloudscraper really a debate here?

    Should I care that Denizen does not trample...or is that responsibility left up to Kraken/Ghoul?

  14. #14
    Boy George?
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    Re: [Deck] +~The Polar Express~+

    Does Phyrexian Dreadnought bear consideration as Ghoul fodder? I know it can't be reanimated in it's own right, but if you draw it you can effectively discard it from your hand for 1. I suppose the question is, are the Cloudscraper's features (extra +1/+1, ability to be played as a morph, and ability to be Shallow Grave'd) more important than the Dreadnought's built-in 'discard' abililty? After typing that sentence, I'm starting to think probably not, but it's probably worth considering, especially if you had problems drawing into fatties all day (with no Brainstorms to throw them away).
    Quote Originally Posted by pi4meterftw View Post
    Still up for more games, although I must say it's pretty silly to play if you're just going to complain about luck irrationally.
    Quote Originally Posted by pi4meterftw
    I think the massive difference is a fluctuatiuon of luck. Against Piceli I drew fairly well, whereas against green one I mulliganned for mana screw reasons twice and for "hand has no answers in it" like 5 times.

  15. #15
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    Re: [Deck] +~The Polar Express~+

    Quote Originally Posted by A Legend View Post
    //Mana
    [4x] Lotus Petal
    [4x] Polluted Delta
    [4x] Underground Sea
    [4x] Watery Grave
    [4x] Bloodstained Mire
    [2x] Cabal Pit
    This is how I would rework the mana if I played the deck.

    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Underground Sea
    2 Swamp
    2 Island
    2 Cabal Pit

    I just worried about wasteland if all the lands are non-basic. I really would like the inclusion of a 2/2 spilt of swamps and islands.

    This deck looks like a lot of fun to play.
    ~Shriek~

  16. #16
    monkey
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    Re: [Deck] +~The Polar Express~+

    I would imagine that Polar Kraken #3-4 are better than Denizen's #1-2. You are losing trample to save yourself 3 life to reanimate, and a land(or 3) to Kraken. If you shallow grave, a Kraken is much better than Denizen. Unless the life and land loss proves to be a big liability then Kraken is the superior choice.
    info.ninja

  17. #17

    Re: [Deck] +~The Polar Express~+

    Quote Originally Posted by nickrit2000 View Post
    This is how I would rework the mana if I played the deck.

    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Underground Sea
    2 Swamp
    2 Island
    2 Cabal Pit

    I just worried about wasteland if all the lands are non-basic. I really would like the inclusion of a 2/2 spilt of swamps and islands.

    This deck looks like a lot of fun to play.
    Thanks brotha. Here's the deal with the mana base:

    I understand a lot of people fear Wasteland and believe that decks like these are susceptible to it. But the truth is, the deck hardly does fear Wasteland. I had to deal with it in EVERY round besides playoffs and it was never a problem. Because the deck runs Rituals and Lotus Petals, comboing out is never a problem. I can see where someone would want to run basics over non-basics, but to my knowledge no one runs Blood Moon main deck and if they did I would almost certainly Blast it post-board. Dropping a fetch and passing the turn only concerns your opponent because they licked their chops at the opportunity to axe your land only to be let down. It's a truly wonderful strategy.

    I always like have access to whatever mana I want - whenever I need it.


    Quote Originally Posted by xsockmonkeyx View Post
    I would imagine that Polar Kraken #3-4 are better than Denizen's #1-2. You are losing trample to save yourself 3 life to reanimate, and a land(or 3) to Kraken. If you shallow grave, a Kraken is much better than Denizen. Unless the life and land loss proves to be a big liability then Kraken is the superior choice.
    Sorry man, but you can't Shallow Grave a Kraken - it comes into play tapped. Here's the thing: I will almost ALWAYS have a Kraken/Denizen in the yard after I Buried Alive. I can Reanimate whichever I choose. But in focusing on the main combo - it's all about reanimating Ghoul.

    I love Dreadnaught Unfortunately, he can't be reanimated or pitched to FoW. I don't see him in the optimal build.

    Is a 22/22 that much different than a 26/26? Is the loss of Cloudscraper and addition of Denizen that important?

    vs.

  18. #18
    monkey
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    Re: [Deck] +~The Polar Express~+

    Quote Originally Posted by A Legend View Post
    Sorry man, but you can't Shallow Grave a Kraken - it comes into play tapped.
    Doh, forgot. In this case then you are right. It is a matter of the utility of the +2/4 power / toughness compared to pitchablity of your extra fat.

    EDIT:

    Denizen of the Deep 6UU

    Creature - Serpent

    When Denizen of the Deep comes into play return all other creatures you control to their owner's hand.

    11/11
    info.ninja

  19. #19

    Re: [Deck] +~The Polar Express~+

    What do you do against extirpate?

  20. #20

    Re: [Deck] +~The Polar Express~+

    I really don't like these kinds of deck. An enough protected Chain of Vapor and you give up...

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