In all seriousness. I'll have the new list put up sometime Sunday night after the tournament when I get back. It's a whole lot of fun to play. Hopefully, it performs just as well. It certainly has in testing.
OMG! Eot Entomb->Hexmage->Shallow Grave->sac to Depths->swing for a million.
I was just trying to do it at instant speed.
Wasteland targeting what?
Wait, that's not a land.
It's a...a....a.....Aaaaaaaarrrgh!!! Splat.
Why do you play polar kraken, what about phyrexian dreadnought+stifle ?
It's way better on his own, if you have it in hand you can play it and sac it to make the ghoul bigger, whereas if you have kraken in hand it sucks.
I do not see how kraken could be better than nought, maybe just because you want to laugh at your opponent.![]()
You don't play Polar Kraken to just play it; you Buried Alive getting Sutured Ghoul and two Krakens, Shallow Grave, and attack with a hasty 22/22 trampler.
Understanding the concept of how the deck plays is an important concept itself. This is a reanimator deck; Dreadnought and Stifle have nothing to do with the strategy.
You can do the same thing with nought, can't you, burried alive for 2 nought and ghoul ?You don't play Polar Kraken to just play it; you Buried Alive getting Sutured Ghoul and two Krakens, Shallow Grave, and attack with a hasty 22/22 trampler.
Understanding the concept of how the deck plays is an important concept itself. This is a reanimator deck; Dreadnought and Stifle have nothing to do with the strategy.
Yesterday 04:28 PM
It is way easier to play stifle+dreadnought (2 cards combo) than kraken in hand + one card to discard it+reanimate, that's a 3 cards combo...
I have already tried this kinda of deck 2-3 years ago, when threshold played werebear and nimble mongoose, and it wasn't already good enough (crypt were ereverywhere !).
This combo is not new at all...
The list in the OP is 2 years old. Hollywood never say it was new, he just explained the combo.
The only new thing about the deck is probably that new list he is working on.
team HASTE!
The funny thing is that Buried Alive + Reanimate and Entomb + Necromancy is in the same colours for the same mana cost.
Entomb + Necromancy pulls ahead, because you play the "cheap"-setup spell first, its instant and can get some utilty flashback cards like Deep Analysis or Ancient Grudge besides Hulk.
So if this deck isnt something 'completly' new, i dont know how it could be build better than a Entomb Hulk variant.
BBB
So did the Depths version go 1-3 or what? After all that hype and nary a Top 8 appearance, I want to know what the list is and how it did.
Just because I actually bothered to read the first few pages and never saw this thread the first time around, I had a thought about it.
Why not Sharum and Magister Sphinx? Seems like it would fit better than a couple of creatures that can't typically get hard casted (well, at least realistically) and if a single Badlands was thrown in to be able to Use Anger, it would be quite nasty to throw that at someone.
Buried Alive - Anger / Sharum / Magister Reanimate the Sharum, she brings in the Sphinx, sets them to 10, swing for 10. GG.
Nice posters btw. : )
I've seen something similar in a survival welder build, but maybe it can work faster here.
Greatest hype and promotion for a deck I've ever read, regardless of how strong the list is I'm looking forward to see it. :)
yea seriously, I've got popcorn and coke ready... now we play the waiting game!
Maybe this will be the deck that brings Draco to the top!? ;O!!!!!!!!!
There was a great deal of preparation involved with this deck in the weeks before the Black Lotus tournament in Binghamton. It was very hard to gauge what version I wanted to run, as there ended up being (ultimately) five or six viable incarnations of the list I could run. In the end, I tried going a different route that proved to be very effective.
The deck essentially using varying control elements such as Daze, Thoughtseize, and Force of Will to protect the main win condition of the deck (this being Dark Depths and Vampire Hexmage). The deck was in no way re-animator, to be clear. The idea was to win by attrition; to punish decks using Stifle and Wasteland and keeping them off for turns before beating in with either Marit Lage or Tombstalker (or Hexmage and Dark Confidant).
There are some major flaws in the deck outright. This variation uses black and blue to supplement the combo while controlling the board with sweepers and removal. However, I would like to point out this is not the version of the deck I will continue playing. It is fairly obvious green with black works much more efficiently and allows you to abuse Living Wish to search for the combo as well as use the toolbox sideboard. I prefer this much more.
Here's the list I ran at the Black Lotus tournament, for reference. I ended up going a modest 3-3 before deciding to further play anymore. I wanted to sit back and take in what went wrong and how I could fix it.
Here's the original list, for reference:
The Polar Express II: When Hell Freezes Over
[4x] Vampire Hexmage
[4x] Dark Confidant
[4x] Force of Will
[4x] Brainstorm
[4x] Stifle
[4x] Thoughtseize
[4x] Daze
[3x] Smother
[3X] Sensei's Divining Top
[2x] Tombstalker
[2x] Damnation
[1x] Engineered Explosives
//Land
[4x] Polluted Delta
[4x] Underground Sea
[4x] Island
[4x] Swamp
[3x] Dark Depths
[1x] Urborg, Tomb Of Yawgmoth
[1x] Tolaria West
//Sideboard
[3x] Perish
[2x] Ravenous Trap
[2x] Tormod's Crypt
[2x] Engineered Explosives
[2x] Damnation
[2x] Grim Discovery
[1x] Tombstalker
[1x] Smother
As you can see, the functionality of each card within the deck is obvious. The point of the deck is to slow an opponent down with early discard and counter-magic to augment the combo. The difficulties this list presents are of many, so I'd like to address them one by one:
Lack of Continuous Firepower
I always felt like the deck needed something to get things going faster on the attack; to put pressure on early. You never want to swing in with Dark Confidant and kill it, you need to wait to get Tombstalker going, and obvious it is possible for the combo itself to take a few turns to get going. Damnation and Smother worked absolute wonders in the deck, but it still doesn't make up for the fact the deck still needs to use the attack step in order to win.
Blue...Really?
Going in to the event I anticipated a lot of aggro. Like, a lot. Marit Lage easily destroys most aggro decks and spot-removal helps pave the way to soften up an opponent's life total. Counter-magic works good, but it does nothing if you can't follow up with some gas.
Fragility of the Combo
It's not as fragile as a lot of people may believe. This is where blue becomes much more important. I ran Counter-Top in the deck at Eli's to off-set the distraction of Swords and Path. By eliminating that, I now can leave my counters open for something else. Stifle is good not just on its own, but to protect the combo. The trick is to make the combo less prevalent so that an opponent won't even care about it, but rather your immediate threats. The lack there-of hurt.
I fully believe the green and black version is the way to go. This is not a tournament report section; that is saved for later. What I am concerned most about here is getting a list together that works like a well-oiled machine. Blue has weaknesses when it comes to inclusion in aggro-combo decks because of the inherent lack of aggressive threats to one-two punch after a counter-spell.
So, with that in mind, I've decided to take the deck in an entirely new direction. I'd like to think this variation of the deck works much, much better.
The Polar Express II: When Hell Freezes Over
[4x] Tarmogoyf
[4x] Dark Confidant
[4x] Thoughtseize
[3x] Kitchen Finks
[3x] Pernicious Deed
[3x] Smother
[3x] Sensei's Divining Top
[3x] Living Wish
[2x] Duress
[2x] Crucible of Worlds
[2x] Crop Rotation
[2x] Vampire Hexmage
[2x] Eternal Witness
//Land
[4x] Verdant Catacombs
[4x] Bayou
[4x] Wasteland
[3x] Swamp
[2x] Forest
[1x] Polluted Delta
[1x] Windswept Heath
[1x] Volrath's Stronghold
[1x] Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
[1x] Dark Depths
[1x] Horizon Canopy
//Sideboard
[3x] Krosan Grip
[3x] Choke
[1x] Yixlid Jailer
[1x] Dark Depths
[1x] Vampire Hexmage
[1x] Ghost Quarter
[1x] Shriekmaw
[1x] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
[1x] Glacial Chasm
[1x] Kitchen Finks
[1x] Wickerbough Elder
There are several reasons why I choose to run green over blue:
Tarmogoyf
Green gives us Tarmogoyf, which is very important. Tarmogoyf will almost surely rake-up a Swords to Plowshares or some sort of other removal. He allows the deck to get very aggressive in a hurry.
Crop Rotation
This card is ridiculously good in this deck, allowing you to instantly search for Marit Lage and any other land you may need in a pinch. Being able to do this gives you the opportunity to catch an opponent off guard with scenarios like the following:
Turn 1: Fetch, Bayou, Thoughtseize, Go.
Turn 2: Swamp, Hexmage, Go.
Turn 3: Fetch, Bayou, Attack, Opponent casts Swords, Crop Rotation in response, get a 20/20.
That's pretty solid. Not only have you removed a relevant card in an opponent's hand turn one, you dodged Swords on Hexmage by instantly fetching for the 20/20 and putting it into play. Very effective. It also lets you find the draw engine (Horizon Canopy with Crucible) and the Waste-lock engine with Crucible. Ridiculous.
Kitchen Finks
Absolutely fantastic against Zoo and decks running burn. He knocks off creatures and lives, gives you life, lives through a Deed, and works overtime with Witness and Stronghold to continue increasing your life total. A very good creature.
Living Wish
This is about as good as it gets in any deck. You are able to search for either piece of your combo with the extra-added ability to find a solution to a situation you are faced with. It's a tutor that works remarkably well in this instance, much like Crop Rotation to hit the other Depths main deck. More often than not, this might end up hitting the Hexmage because Crop Rotation can get the Depths and Crucible can recur it.
Witness supplements both in the main, so there's no problem there. Being able to obtain either piece at 1G is a bargain, especially with the toolbox sideboard.
Essentially, this is the list I run now. I prefer not to run blue for the reasons previously stated: It just doesn't have the firepower or defense weapons necessary to win games and puts the game in the hands of the combo flat-out. I was, however, excited to try it out at the Lotus event so I can gauge the proper direction the deck should go, which is to say, black and green.
I know some folks actually run blue and green with the obvious color black as the anchor color of the deck. This opens up opportunities for cards like Intuition and Brainstorm, which just aren't as good as they should be in a scenario like this. You have so much gas in the B/G version that there's no need to dilute it with another color.
"The Polar Express II" is not a re-animator deck, but rather a code-name for the Hexmage-Depths combo I planned to run at the event, just so everyone knows. I feel this version of the deck works absolutely best and gives it the best chance to play competitively. Also, keep a lookout for a primer of sorts for the B/G version of this deck in the days to come.
Last edited by Michael Keller; 11-17-2009 at 02:49 AM.
Interesting list, i am working on a similiar concept too
(http://mtgthesource.com/forums/showp...&postcount=132)
Glad to see you liking Living Wish. In the Bg build have thought about the following cards:
- Gatekeeper, instead of Smother. Is never dead and can hit opposing Marit Lages / Progenitus.
- Senseis, let you find the combo pieces easier. I always dislike the fact about none-blue decks that you can have horrible topdecks - SDT fixes this. It also allows you to play Tombstalker as a (at least) two of together with Bob.
While Crucible allows Wasteland recursion, i am not convinced it is what the deck needs - if you want recursion what about Grim Discovery? (I still wouldnt advise it).
Your bild looks a little bit rockish - personal i would go more in the black-aggro control direction and add Dark Ritual and maybe Hymn for explosiveness. SDT and Living Wish still gives you a follow up plan / consistency.
BBB
// Lands
1 [R] Tundra
1 [A] Underground Sea
8 [7E] Island (2)
2 [MR] Seat of the Synod
1 [MR] Plains (1)
2 [TSP] Academy Ruins
3 [ON] Polluted Delta
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [BD] Swamp (1)
// Spells
1 [CFX] Path to Exile
1 [4E] Nevinyrral's Disk
1 [FD] Vedalken Shackles
2 [ALA] Tezzeret the Seeker
1 [DD2] Jace Beleren
1 [FUT] Sword of the Meek
4 [4E] Swords to Plowshares
1 [ARB] Thopter Foundry
2 [FNM] Fact or Fiction
1 [TO] Deep Analysis
4 [CS] Counterbalance
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [4E] Counterspell
4 [CST] Brainstorm
3 [FD] Engineered Explosives
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
// Sideboard
SB: 4 [PS] Meddling Mage
SB: 4 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 4 [7E] Engineered Plague
SB: 3 [US] Back to Basics
Well definately this is the deck I''ve been testing and feel confortable, the only issue once happened to me was about not having the white mana for the neccessary swords/path, so I have to change the base, I'm thinking in adding 2 more fetches, but not sure yet... suggestions at this point?
also I feel that thirst f.k didn't make the cut at least in this control version in which we have no many artifacts, the explanations are :
I wanted to play 6 card drawers, but 4 were enough
F o F is the best card between them by far, however I didnt want to run more than 2 becuase of the bad choices it made us, also deep is huge in control match ups. and jace seems to be like a card drawer and a win cond. in 1 card.
The number of thopter /swords , 2 was the correct becuase they are intended to be fetched with tezz. 2 no more.
the senseis were at first 3 but I find the m too powerfull to not to run the four, (I also thoutgh to put in 1 predict - good card drawer).
Regarding to the lonely path to exile it's just 1 but the numbers recognize him as a correct inclusion, maybe a 2nd could fit in.
Regarding to vedalken /nevinirral, I find the a good target with tezz, aboveall nevinirral, which can save us some games.
The side is quite standard I think I have to work more in it.
Well Opinions are wellcome and I expect this serves you as an archetype to follow as I contemplate 4:
Tezz with tombs/citys
Tezz with gifts 2thopter/1 s.o.m (control way)
Tezz with 4 thopter/4 s.o.m. (control way)
Tezz with c.b like my approach (control way)
Merry Christmas to everyone on The Source.
:)
(Seems like every two years, this becomes a tradition! lol)
Last edited by Michael Keller; 12-24-2013 at 05:03 PM.
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