XP
wow. im so used to just fetching either vine dryad or dryad arbor i forgot it can only fetch green. point taken. you can search for cantor still, but yea, that is obviously weaker. nvm.
just so everyone knows 2 people (including myself) made the top 17 in at 150+ person tourney in binghamton ny this past sat (i think it was 170 something). there were only 3 belcher decks there. he made top 8 with cedrics exact list and i played 73 outa 75 cards. and i came back after going 0-2. and i happened to win one game through 3 dazes on the back of permenant mana sourses. i love you chrome mox.
wow grats. I hope everyone doesn't start playing this all of a sudden :XOriginally Posted by Phthisisity
honestly i feel as if belcher is well positioned in the current metagame. i think our real focus should be on what is the proper board configuration for beating decks with blue. xantid swarm is not the answer. it doesn't beat counterbalance and it doesn't stop cursecatcher(the later should be as much of a problem, but i always come up against multiples). xantid swarm is too slow. it doesnt matter if you can cast it on turn one with combo in hand. i think i would rather play REB or something similar.
Not needing to pay for your protection spell on the turn you combo is pretty huge, which is what gives Xantid an edge over REB or similar effects. I don't really seen Xantid being too slow unless you're plan is to Empty the Warrens and you need to race WoG. Emptying a turn earlier still doesn't outrace Explosives. If you're on the draw you're opponent might be able to get Counterbalance down (maybe even with top) but you still have a turn while he's tapped down to go off.
awesome
i agree and that seems to be the case in testing. i think i am just bitter that i lost every game in an 8 round tourney that i resolved the bees. i also never cast the tendrils in the board. i'm not sure that the slot couldn't be something else. for reference i played cedric's list -1 ingot chewer +1 deathmark.
Yeah, it's biggest downside is that it's protection which is vulnerable to removal. I would anticipate most people boarding out there StPs and PtEs though.
awesome
you'd think so but any savy player may decide to keep it in. i played against bgw counterbalance in vestal and he kept his swords in, in anticipation of the bees. that is why i think reb may be better cause it blanks their cards. and if they do board out the removal then it is no loss for you.
another question for folks... how many cards do you feel comfortable boarding in in an MU such as merfolk?
Last edited by Phthisisity; 11-19-2009 at 10:23 PM. Reason: i suck at spelling
What about Vexing Shusher? It costs a mana more, but you can conceivably get it out with a Rite of Flame or something. Past that, you only need to pay a mana when they actually try to counter your spells. The downside is that I think Shusher benefits a deck that can develop its mana and make more land drops and Belcher doesn't really do that.
Another historic option is Goblin Welder, to bring back the Belcha and play nice with LED (if Welder isn't already maindecked, of course).
the problem with shusher you already addressed, the problem with welder is that you only have 4 belchers where as, depending on the build, you have about 7 warrens so that kill happens alot more often. belcher kill is preferable, as it is more stable, but it doesn't always happen.
So this is the list I've been working on. I still don't really have a plan for the sideboard as I am absolutely terrible at those things but I know it'll contain 1 ETW, some amount of Deathmarks, Shattering Sprees and Pyroblasts among various metagame wish targets.
// Lands
1 [B] Taiga
1 [B] Bayou
// Creatures
4 [PLC] Simian Spirit Guide
3 [GP] Wild Cantor
// Spells
4 [CS] Rite of Flame
4 [SHM] Manamorphose
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
4 [MM] Land Grant
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [MR] Goblin Charbelcher
4 [MR] Seething Song
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [MM] Dark Ritual
2 [JU] Burning Wish
4 [MR] Spoils of the Vault
3 [CHK] Desperate Ritual
3 [TO] Cabal Ritual
3 [TSP] Empty the Warrens
I'm sure some of the cards go against conventional wisdom, but so far the testing for the 4/4/3/2 split of Spoils/Belcher/ETW/Wish split has been solid. Post any comments/criticisms. It's pretty late so I'll post more tomorrow after I get some sleep.
shattering spree is actually terrible because it rarely does the intended job. it doesnt kill chalice. you don't have the sustainable red mana to make it useful. ingot chewer is better and hull reach is a better wish target.
i think the 2/2 warrens split MD and BOARD is the right number. most MU's dont require the warrens kill. the only time you want more is against U so you can bait them with spoils and have them counter to up your storm count.
Last edited by Phthisisity; 11-25-2009 at 02:19 AM. Reason: another point
I would also put in that Cabal Ritual is pretty bad in this deck, because Threshold comes only after something's gone horribly wrong, so it gets the same or less boost as Desperate Ritual, and it's on the off color, which you have far less ways to generate than r, plus less ability to chain spells like Rite of Flame or 2x SSG into it. I would cut three for one Desperate Ritual and either two ESG, as a quick burst of (for you) colorless, or two Street Wraith.
2 Burning Wish seems like a poor number. If you plan to derive any kind of utility from a Wishboard, either for Hull Breach or Tendrils or the like, you will need at least 4 to see them consistently.
honestly the wish board it not te reason to run wish but to have 2 extra warrens.but if you run wish a few slots in the board are prudent. i hate tendrils in the deck. cabal rit is strictly better than desperate rit. you should have no less than 6 ways to wash mana if you play this much black so the switch shouldn't be a problem. street wraith is bad. in every deck. all it does is confuse your mulligan decisions.
So that you can run...5 warrens, instead of 4? Or, counting Spoils, 9 instead of 8? I would think Wish is better than Spoils because you don't lose an average of 12+ life in the casting, letting someone with, say, a Wild Nacatl/Kird Ape go swing, bolt, bolt for the win. If you want to try and win that turn, your six other cards will need to generate 8 mana, and if you want to cast Warrens, well, spoiling for a 3-of will lose you even more life.
And Desperate Ritual is not strictly worse than Cabal Ritual. Normally they are equal, because you will not have Threshold. Now, Desperate has three advantages:
1: It is easier to cast, even if, in your deck, only marginally.
2: It doesn't convert red mana into black, which is only useful for Spoils, Dark Ritual (a card which keeps the amount of red mana in your mana pool constant, incidentally) and further rituals.
3: If you have 2RR in your mana pool and two desperate rituals, it becomes 7 red mana thanks to splices, not six. This is important because 7 mana is what you need to play and activate Belcher in one turn.
Regarding the threat of Counterbalance:
Reverent Silence seems our best answer to it, not to mention its fetchable with Burning Wish.
Wah?! How does this work?
Don't you know how Splice works? Cast the first Desperate Ritual, Splice the second onto that, then cast the 2nd Ritual.
The Source: Your Source for "The Source: Your Source for..." cliche.
Has anyone else tried Demigod of revenge in the board?
I find that most of my opponents side out creature removal, and almost nobody knows how to properly counter him. Against blue, I side out belchers in favor of this guy, because one is huge, but if you get 2, you just win.
Team Unicorn: We're horny...get it?
are people really so stupid that they don't know how to counter demigod?
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