Before we began the discussion on it in this forum, I intended to write this article for mtgSalvation. I decided I hated it as an article, and I don't want to publish it, but I want people to see it anyway. It's a bit of a history lesson, at the very least. Enjoy, I hope.
Change has a considerable psychological impact on the human mind. To the fearful it is threatening because it means that things may get worse. To the hopeful it is encouraging because things may get better. To the confident it is inspiring because the challenge exists to make things better.
~ King Whitney Jr.
Prehistoric 1.5 - The Numbers Before the Names
For those of you who are unfamiliar with the history of the Legacy format - pre "Legacy" - here's a bit of a recap, and a little bit of autobiography to boot. I began playing Magic with the release of Fourth Edition, and continued through my high school years as a casual player, finally shelving the game near graduation. This was somewhere around Exodus. Through this first period of play, I began a growing interest in tournament play at a local shop in Syracuse, NY, where they held weekly Type 1.5 events. This was between 1998-2000, far before any relevant metagame or development picked up in the old 1.5 format. Most people were playing RG aggro or mono black control, and there was little in terms of high level competition. During the few years in college between quitting the game, and picking it back up in 2003, the friends I had left behind in Syracuse continued to work on the format. These players along with groups from Albany NY, Northern Virginia, and Massachusetts had, in my absence, laid the foundations for both the 1.5 metagame and the community associated with it. Many of the Syracuse regulars were active members of TheManaDrain.com's 1.5 discussion forum, until a few disagreements led to the exodus of the 1.5 players from the site, and the deletion of that part of TMD. www.mtgthesource.com was a created by former TheManaDrain.com moderators Mike Glow and Colin Chilbert, and The Source was born as the only site on the internet for the development of Type 1.5. For over a year, the format was developed on The Source by a small and dedicated group of players, turning it from a cesspool of casuality into an advanced metagame, completely autonomous from any support from Wizards of the Coast. I was unfortunate enough to miss this era of development, but I can say this with absolute certainty: If it weren't for those early developers on TMD and The Source, Type 1.5 would have died out, and Legacy as it is known today would not exist. WotC would most likely have considered 1.5 a dead format, and done away with it, rather than giving it the support and focus they do today.
In September of 2004, Wizards decided to act in what they believed was the best interest for them and for the format, when they separated the banned and restricted lists of Vintage and what would soon be known as Legacy. Prior to this date, the banned list of 1.5 was every card banned in Vintage, as well as every restricted card. With the separation, Wizards felt they could create a home for those players soon to be displaced by the Extended rotation. In his article on the issue, Aaron Forsythe said,
"...with the impending rotation of the Extended format next year, we felt the need to make sure there was a reasonable format available where players could use their old cards (everything from dual lands to Ice Age cards to Rebels) that was not just a toned-down version of Vintage. We tried to strike the fine balance between accessibility and, well, balance of play." (link)
This announcement had a number of impacts. Positively, it gave Vintage players confirmation that Wizards supported them, as it was largely at the request of those players the action took place. Vintage players were outspoken advocates of list separation, largely because they tired of seeing harmless cards added to the Vintage Restricted list, in order to ban them in 1.5. It also, as Forsythe said, gave the Extended players of that era a somewhat familiar format to continue playing in once their decks rotated out. Unfortunately, there was a previously ignored community of players who were put out in a big way by this announcement. The Type 1.5 players were outraged.
Wizards had effectively taken away the entire format. The upper tier of 1.5 decks at that time were comprised of decks like Worldgorger Dragon Combo (Worldgorger Dragon, Bazaar of Bagdhad), Welder MUD (Mishra's Workshop, Metalworker), Oath (Oath of Druids), Enchantress (Replenish), Food Chain Goblins (Goblin Recruiter), and Masknaught (Illusionary Mask). Every one of those decks was invalidated by the banned list. The only upper tier decks unaffected by the change were Tradewind Survival, which instantly became the best deck, along with Landstill, which lost Mana Drain, but was otherwise unaffected. The players were understandably upset, many were extremely vocal in their disdain. This was effectively the first attention they recieved from anyone, ever, and they gave a terrible first impression. As they say, it's difficult to make up for a bad first impression, and since 2004, the Legacy community has strived to do just that.
So Who's Format Was It?
Regarding the question posed in this article's title, 1.5 was "our" format. It was the epitome of Do It Yourself Magic. The players held events, because Wizards wasn't doing it. The players defined the metagame, because the pros didn't care. The players were the community, and ran it themselves, because there was no one else to do it for them, and they cared enough to make it happen on their own. With the new attention to Legacy, and the end of 1.5, much of that changed. Discussion boards popped up on sites like StarCityGames, mtgSalvation, and TheManaDrain. More players were dipping into the format, and bringing with them their own experiences, which were quite different from those of the established community. This was a cause for a lot of friction between the old and new. The format was no longer what the 1.5 players remembered it as, and they lost a lot of the control they worked so hard to maintain. The support from Wizards was a double-edged sword - while the Grand Prix events and attention were exactly what the community had asked for, it caused a drop off in the DIY feeling the format once had, and made it much more impersonal. This was a significant part of the allure of 1.5, and losing it was something the 1.5 community was not prepared for.
Most of the people responsible for the 1.5 format's development are no longer playing Magic, or at least no longer playing Legacy. There are a few of the old guard hanging on, but for the most part, the community is comprised of people who caught the Legacy bug closely before the restructuring, or sometime after. This is a point that is often overlooked when discussing the community and its reputation, and it's an extremely important factor to the discussion. People still point to the negative image received due to the separation of the Legacy and Vintage lists, and yet the people responsible for creating that image aren't even part of the community anymore.
Fast forward three years. Legacy is a healthy, well developed format once more, with a growing community made up of many experienced and dedicated players. There have been two Grand Prix events, and a third was rapidly approaching. Aside from those events, there are a rising number of large tournaments held across the country, and even more in Europe. Legacy is blossoming into exactly what Wizards hoped it would, the everyman’s format; the deckbuilder’s dream. Suddenly, everything changed when the power level errata was removed from Flash.
Aside – I know at this point, everyone is sick of hearing about this card. It’s banned, get over it, I understand. However, the period of Legacy’s history surrounding this event is an important one, and it redefined a lot of preconceived notions both we as Legacy players, and those outside looking in, had about Legacy and the people who play the format. Don’t expect to hear the end of the discussion and analysis anytime soon. Although the card itself is gone, the effects it had on the format are lasting.
To those of us playing 1.5 when the separation of lists occurred, this felt eerily familiar. Once again, the majority of the upper tier decks were invalidated. This time, it wasn’t due to pivotal cards being banned, but rather obsoleted by a combo so powerful that it immediately dominated the format. Just like the first time, the community spoke out. Just like the first time, people unfamiliar with Legacy, tuning in due to the broken combo and the upcoming GP, were left with a bad taste in their mouths about Legacy players.
Why We Care
Legacy and Vintage are different than Standard, Limited, and Extended. This seems obvious, but the reasons I’m referring to aren’t the obvious ones. Certainly, the formats are faster. The card pools are much deeper. But the people that play these two formats are the real difference.
By far, most serious tournament players gravitate to Standard, Limited, and Extended. They should, because these formats are the most likely to have large events where you can make money and compete with the best players around. The people who play in those events don’t care what format they’re playing (for the most part), they find something they’re comfortable playing (or the best deck, if there is one), and play. There are standard seasons, extended seasons, block seasons, and it makes no difference to them. This isn’t the way it works in the eternal formats.
With few exceptions, people playing Legacy actively seek it out as their format of choice. It must be that way, because there is no such thing as “Legacy Season.” There will never be a PT where the format is Legacy. It’s relatively easy to be an active competitor in the rotating formats, because events are easy to come by. It’s much more difficult to actively participate in a format where you might only get to play a real tournament once or twice a year. Why would someone do that to themselves? Why would you go out of your way to dedicate yourself to learning a format you can’t even play in? That’s a question for each person who chooses to be active in eternal formats to answer for themselves. I can only speak for myself when I say that for me, playing Legacy has always been about playing with my cards, for as long as I want. I never have to worry about impending rotations, or grabbing the hottest rares in the new set. Combine that with the feeling of camaraderie and community I get from playing this game with like-minded players from across the globe, and I have a real reason to stay dedicated to Eternal Magic. Legacy is an extremely laid-back format, and as competitive as it can be, it’s also extremely low stress. These are all important factors for me, and I’m sure for you, and they’re why I keep testing decks with Brainstorm, and leave my Temple Gardens in the trade binder.
Because of all this, I’ve dedicated myself to the betterment of the format, and I take responsibility for its health and prosperity. And yet, there’s a lot I can’t control. Things outside my sphere of influence can disrupt what I’ve worked so hard to achieve, and there’s nothing I can do about it. No one enjoys losing control. Of course anyone would be upset. It’s the equivalent of spending a summer gardening, and a tornado comes through, destroying your garden. Sure, you still have your house, but it sucks nonetheless.
Two Roads Diverged in a Wood
You, the Legacy player, have a choice to make. You can embrace the new visage of Legacy, or you can choose, like many have before you, to allow the changes to drive you away from the format into which you've invested your time, money, effort, and self. The more Legacy becomes like the rotating formats, the more change we can expect. This is a hard pill to swallow. From a completely DIY format, to one in which we have an ever decreasing amount of control, the Legacy format will never be what it once was. It's not our format anymore, and no matter what we think of that, the earlier we come to accept it - and play in "the" format, instead of "our" format - the better off the format and community will be.
Last edited by Nightmare; 06-29-2007 at 09:06 AM.
What changes are you referring to exactly? Other than making 1.5 sanctioned and splitting the B&R lists between vintage and legacy I don't see where Wizards has stuck their nose into the format. If anything they've helped it grow by sanctioning and implementing a separate banned list. I honestly don't see how this isn't our format anymore, nor do I see how Wizards has hurt the format at all.Originally Posted by Nightmare
Autocard links removed, thanks.
As for the changes I'm referring to, you've basically hit them spot on. Whether you personally see the effects of it or not, the format has changed since Wizards took action, and since high level events have begun. Whether this is a good thing or not is left to personal interpretation, as I've stated in the "article." Some people see it as a negative. The paragraph you've quoted is targetted at that contingent. The point is, good or bad, the changes will continue, and not everyone is going to be on board. Rather than continue to be portrayed as "xenophobic," we could do a lot for ourselves by accepting the notion of change now, rather than being upset about it as the changes progress.
I don't think anyone would suggest that the format has changed, nor do I know of anyone who believes these changes have hurt the format.
As far as this not being our format anymore though, I'd disagree wholeheartedly. Other than the 2 GP's and the upcoming Legacy Championships everything is run by the players. I don't think that Wizards has put their imprint on the format enough for us to have the mindset that extended/standard players have in that they're just participating as opposed to running the show. Maybe I don't feel that way because of the location that I play in, but I don't see any proof of this being Wizards format. Well, at least not in my opinion.
This captures the chronology and the feelings within the community quite well. I wish you had submitted it, would it be possible to sticky this as a reference point for players new to the format & The Source? Change is scary, for many people, but even more than that, it can be demoralizing. The 1.5 community had expended a lot of effort...and them Wizards exterminated our format, without telling us, without consulting with us, pretty much without acknowledging that we existed. That caused quite a bit of hurt & anger. The unbannings also caused quite a ruckus, as many people (rightly) saw the inherent combo danger in some of the cards, like LED. Inability to break it immediately led to derisive cries of 'Chicken Little' and 'you people are whiners'. However, it took about 12 nanoseconds after Empty the Warrens was released for people to start breaking it in conjunction with LED...all the card needed were the tools, which Burning Wish & storm provide. The GPs were a nice touch, if delayed. When we received another one, most of us were very excited. The the hurt and anger came, again, when Wizards, AGAIN, without warning or consultation (would it hurt them to consult with people who actually PLAY the format?!? or to have waited to un-errate Flash with 10th Ed.?) shanked the entire format, less than a month before the GP. Occurrences such as these are painful, especially when you feel some 'ownership' of the format due to the amount of time & effort you have spent promoting the format through deckbuilding, setting up/supporting tournaments, and community building.
TL,DR: if you think Saito is ok, check your moral compass. It may be broken. - Spikey Mikey, amen brother
WE know what the price of progress is (often 8-10 life). - Cait Sith
A casual stasis deck? You must not really like your friends. Do you play it before or after you pull the wings off of flys and microwave the neighbor's cat? - EwokSlayer
I thought this was well written.
I'm sure part of this is directed at my involvement in the Flash fiasco, but I don't see any cogent statement being made. You have left out all of the negative stereotypes and difficulties that Vintage had to struggle with during the time it was making space for itself. You refer to the Vintage players as "outspoken advocates" who brought up changes publicly and formed a discussion with the DCI, and yet you are telling players not to try to exert control over the format. This would be hypocritical coming from an outsider, but I think it's just an oversight in your case.
I'm just as sorry as anyone if Legacy got bad press when people complained about Flash, but I'm certain it was necessary to do so. We are not marketers, we are tournament players. This is the only way to improve the status of the management we receive from the DCI.
I agree that the whole flash fiasco ruined the GP fun for everyone, and along with it the countless hours of testing and playing before flash ruined the format for the short and brief time it was in the format.
I also believe that splitting the B&R lists up was the right thing to do. We now have a voice of our own that is seperate from the vintage crowd, and if we believe certain cards(such as LED) should be banned then now is the chance to have our voices heard. Let's not hide in the corner and whimper, let our voices be heard and make it matter. In the long run I believe the split lists will be for the better of the format.
But like always, these are just my $0.02.
I agree, and second the notion that it should have wider distribution.
I believe the response was very appropriate. I guess saying anything about the matter is redundant, but I will anyway. Because, the only reason that they were able to make the decision they did was because of an imbalance of power. Wizards states that they value all their players, but is it clear that the ones who are pumping money into the vaults day to day, are more relevant that the ones who did in the past. Look at memory jar. That was an oversight that was known in advance, but it would affect players paying money now. So it was emergency banned. Those of us who play legacy spent all that money then. Magic would not be what it is today, if their were not people out there making them a viable company by investing in 3rd edition, Ice Age, Tempest, what have you. I used to mow lawns and paint houses for my uncle in high school, and turn around and buy Packs of the Dark and Revised. I was psyched. I appreciate that they don't want people who are freshly excited about the game to have a negative experience and they deal with Memory Jar/Ravager accordingly. Maybe I am fictionalizing this, but my sense is Legacy players have a deep history with the game, we were those kids making them a viable company 13, 8, 6 years ago. The Flash GP seems like a case of them forgetting that. Obviously the game would be just fine without us, financially, but ignoring the foundation of your success is just rude. Frankly it was probably more profitable for them to let everyone see what the pros would do with flash, (and I admit I though it was interesting) than let the players who have constituted the community over the years have their day in the sun.
I don't want to add to the litany of complaints, or fuel the fires. I just want to weigh in and support the ideas that you, Nightmare & Machinus both have presented.
I had a few minor quibbles with specific sentences from this article, but really overall it was eminently agreeable. Applause!
I remember getting a very strong vibe of provincialism from the 1.5 community, that somehow any control that wasn't vested in MTS wasn't legitimate control over the format. Opinions from non-Source players have always been viewed as intrusions on the 'real' Legacy community. Cheering for 'your team' is one thing; thinking, "Well, if it's so great, how come I never saw it on The Source?" is another.The format was no longer what the 1.5 players remembered it as, and they lost a lot of the control they worked so hard to maintain.
The echoes of that notion are still there, but dying away, and that makes me optimistic for the future of the format. MTS is still the biggest piece of the format, but it's no longer the only one, and I am glad this writing shows an awareness of that.
This is really, really good. You should have just submitted the damn thing IMO.
*Affixes happy face sticker to article*
info.ninja
Whether the article was good or not, (I liked it very much) I think it needed to be written, and if it gets a front page should be submitted wherever.
I always saw the relationship between The Source and Legacy like a parent and child. The Source has an uncondititional love for Legacy, and nurtures it like it's child. Whether the child is behaving well, or poorly, you still love it. You do everything you can to help the child, and enjoy their successes as your own.
Sometimes you are angry at your child, but still love them. And it is fine for you to punish or chide your child, but woe betide any who might think they know better than you how to treat them.
Which is how it should be. While your child is a member of the human race, and of course should interact with it and hopefuly flourish, you are always going to have a vested interest in it's welfare, and stay involved in all facets of it's development throughout it's life.
Sorry for the sappy metaphor.
~ Team Unicorn Motto
Thanks so much for reminding me of why I do this. You have given me a lot to think about.
Team Unicorn is too hetero for me.While this is close it's still wrong. Every one knows it's an orgy of unicorns.******s?
TeaM NOVA for life.
The list seperation was complete bullshit. Call me bitter if you want, but I stand by it, for multiple reasons.
You're right, 1.5 was a DIY format, and I was perfectly content with that. I was perfectly happy with driving 6 hours to VA for a 50 person tournament. If I wanted to GP level event, I'd go to a fucking GP. I play standard and extended for a reason. 1.5 was my kitchen table format, and I liked it that way. And dammit, I was pissed off when two years of hard work was completely invalidated.
Another sentiment from that time period:
Vintage- Why is Earthcraft on the B/R list?
1.5- Don't look at us, we know it's a shitty combo too.
And on a slightly less selfish appearing front; 1.5 was the perfect eternal format. It was what competative vintage should have been. It had a much more fun balance between interactive and completely fucking broken. Even at it's height, Dragon was no where near the power of Long.dec, and it was better that way. You could play with old cards and have some broken plays, but in a fun way, and not have to deal with the complete fucking stupidity that is Vintage.
Call me a bitch, a whiner, say you don't want someone like me in this format, whatever. But 1.5 was a better, more fun and interesting format, and looking back, I think it's complete and utter destruction was the start and the catalyst for my departure from the game.
P.S. I keep reading this thread as "That Wasn't Legacy!"
I can understand having your format destroyed being a reason for you to leave the game. That is definitely your choice. But the real problem with 1.5 was the sheer cost of the better cards. Playing without Bazaar of Baghdad, Mishra's Workshop, and Mana Drain was definitely a severe disadvantage. I didn't have those cards, but still enjoyed playing the format (though I only played at the very end), but I am not under the delusion that I was making the optimal deck choice. While there is always a cost to playing Magic, but when cards cost more than 100 dollars a piece there will always be a shortage of people who will be able to play a given deck.
The actual problem with the old 1.5 is why would you bother playing a format with such completely degenerate cards as Mishra's Workshop, Bazaar of Baghdad, Mana Drain, and (a little) Goblin Recruiter and not Moxen? If the argument is 'because I have the former and not the latter', then 1.5 is literally just budget Vintage. If the argument is because there was less degeneracy, I would submit the protected turn 2 kills of Dragon and Workshop -> Trinisphere (of equivalent power to Vintage decks of the same eras). Proxy Vintage tournaments destroyed any old market for 1.5 on budgetary grounds, and it certainly wasn't 'omg these decks aren't as silly'.
I was playing 1.5 since 2003 or so, and I was always fighting with my budget constraints, being a high schooler and all. To me, the format was very fun since I got to play with my favorite cards like Dark Rituals(banned in extended), and replenish(also the case), but it was also not fun when some pimp showed up with bazaar (or workshop, after mirrodin). So, I don't see how 1.5 was a very good format to everyone, assuming every member of community did not own what they needed. I loved the format, but I love Legacy more.
Now I can afford more expensive cards, and budget is less of a concern now, but I still think that the separation made the format a lot more accessible and fun. I was one of the proponents of list separation back then, and I still think the change was the best gift from wizards to eternal players. Close second being the recent banning/unbanning, I suppose.
A very well written article nonetheless. Thank you for articles, nightmare.
She said, "You're broken."
"So is your face." replied the Tarmogoyf.
Great read Adam! Brought back memories of Glow's awful 4 color manabases.
I just want to add that I started playing the old 1.5 around Onslaught block so that puts it around 02/03. I played in the Albany meta which had the following "power" playsets in rotation:
2 Bazaars
2-3 Workshops
5 Drains
Now most of these where owned by the same people but on ocassion they were lent out so with a field of roughly 20 there was plenty of decks running the goods. On average I would say about 2 "power" decks would make top 4 which is not THAT bad. People would top 4 with things ranging from Sligh to Witch Tech.
When the lists were seperated things just seemed different. I miss those days. I feel that the format isn't the same and it really lead to me selling off my collection a couple years after the change. I still play in tourneys that P_R will take me to, but it just isn't the same.
I miss Big Arse, I miss Amrod's (except for the shitty location), but most of all I hate the fact that cards are banned for pure $ value. Tabernacles are getting up to about $60 in english...when will these go next?
Unless you do that, the format will be available only to those who can afford a playset of 100+ dollar cards, which is probably not a good for the Legacy. That will make all the sanctioned support that we are receiving go away.
If Tabernacle becomes huge factor in metagame, then it will have to go. Fortunately, any 50+ cards in the format is not very close to format defining.
She said, "You're broken."
"So is your face." replied the Tarmogoyf.
Nightmare, I thought this was a great read and you should have published it. For those of us who did not play Legacy back then, this article was a great history lesson. Of course I knew that at one point 1.5 was just vintage sans the restricted cards, but I did not know what an impact the separation had, nor did I know that there was any lingering animosity concerning the separation. This has certainly given me a better understanding of the format I love.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Reply With Quote