[Deck] Armageddon Stax

[GoldenCid]

Why not PKeg main deck??

[Q-Ball]

Certainly possible, but in many cases, first game you win based on what you got. Second game they bring in their artifact hate, and most of the time it's not enough. So working from there they'res very few reasons to have it main deck. If you find yourself in the case where they drop an early tarmogoyf, you have options that don't require blowing it up.

More specifically, it does not serve as a permanent. While O-ring gives you a permanent to Stack and they lose one.

[Zythe]

I've been wondering, why don't more people play Elspeth in Geddon Stax? She seems absolutely bomby in this deck. I know the WW can be hard but armageddon costs the same, and not only does she make permanents to sack to smokestacks, but she also chump blocks the singleton big dude your opponent could afford to pay 2 mana to swing at you for. So in that regard she acts like a kor haven/maze while also doubling as a pretty fast win-con after you lock them out.

[Misplayer]

I've been wondering, why don't more people play Elspeth in Geddon Stax? She seems absolutely bomby in this deck. I know the WW can be hard but armageddon costs the same, and not only does she make permanents to sack to smokestacks, but she also chump blocks the singleton big dude your opponent could afford to pay 2 mana to swing at you for. So in that regard she acts like a kor haven/maze while also doubling as a pretty fast win-con after you lock them out.

+1. I've always been a fan of the Elspeth/Humility package in Stax myself, but with Baneslayer seeing play it's gotten tougher to find slots. You do NOT want to cut lock pieces for win-cons. Obviously this leads to discussions about the "Dutch Stax" variant that plays Moat as well, but that tends to price out your average Stax player.

That said, Stax has taken a pretty big hit because of Qasali Pridemage (actually that one card has had about a significant impact on the format as anything printed in the last 5 or 6 sets). In order to beat a deck like Zoo you need to a) draw the right lock pieces (this has always been true) and b) keep them in play. Pridemage hitting one lock piece like a Ghostly Prison, Trinisphere or Chalice can lose you the game straight up. Knowing that one of your lock pieces is likely to get blown up makes your draws even more important than they were before. A deck with no library manipulation or card draw like Stax (most Tomb/Chalice decks actually) would already semi-regularly lose games to itself because of an inability to draw the right cards at the right time (despite redundancy in almost every slot) and cards like Pridemage that are standard 4-ofs in all Zoo lists really exacerbate this weakness.

[ClearSkies]

I've been wondering, why don't more people play Elspeth in Geddon Stax? She seems absolutely bomby in this deck. I know the WW can be hard but armageddon costs the same, and not only does she make permanents to sack to smokestacks, but she also chump blocks the singleton big dude your opponent could afford to pay 2 mana to swing at you for. So in that regard she acts like a kor haven/maze while also doubling as a pretty fast win-con after you lock them out.

You have to remember that ghostly prison doesn't protect Elspeth. So if the person has more than one creature, Elspeth is doomed.

[Q-Ball]

Yep, this makes Chalice at 2 or Pithing Needle important in the matchup.

[Misplayer]

Yep, this makes Chalice at 2 or Pithing Needle important in the matchup.

This seems unreasonable. Chalice at 1 is the best play against Zoo because >50% of their deck is 1-drops. To protect against Pridemage you'd need to draw double Chalice or Chalice + Needle, requiring you to play Needle first and letting them drop 1-2 additional 1-drops on top of their turn one play, and you'd need to get those Chalices online before they land Pridemage. Now you've devoted your first 3 turns to stopping one of their weaker cards while they smash you with Nacatls, Kird Apes, Lavamancers, Figures, KotRs and burn spells.

The point remains, stabilizing against Zoo is a tall order.

[Q-Ball]

Having a hand that can produce 4 mana on turn 2 is a main way to do it.
Three mana on turn one (Even if it is city of traitors and a mox) is the best.
First turn Trini.
Now you have two more turns to establish a wastelock, get a chalice or two out, or even better a second trini.

Lately with Lodestone and Juggy I've been able to come out swinging, first turn Trini, second turn Lodestone has been a game over for them. He gets in a free beat normally, then they have to start dropping threats that are going to end up blocking while I get more lock pieces down.

[Zythe]

You have to remember that ghostly prison doesn't protect Elspeth. So if the person has more than one creature, Elspeth is doomed.

Ah ok, that makes a lot of sense actually. I guess I never thought of that before.

[Q-Ball]

After a bit more testing;
Although I love Elspeth. And I love Ghostly Prison.
They just are not needed. They are always soft-lock components, and never truly help towards a hardlock.
So they're cut to the sideboard for Goblins.

Oblivion Rings however, offer a 2 permanent swing. You gain a permanent, they lose one. In that way, they are incredible with Smokestack allowing it to begin chewing faster.

2 Juggernaut
4 Lodestone Golem

3 Armageddon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Crucible of Worlds
4 Mox Diamond
4 Oblivion Ring
4 Smokestack
3 Tangle Wire
4 Trinisphere

4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
1 Darksteel Citadel
3 Flagstones of Trokair
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
4 Plains
2 Riftstone Portal
4 Wasteland


Sideboard:
3 Magus of the Tabernacle
3 Suppression Field
3 Ghostly Prison
6 ?

[The Wes]

I can't say enough what a bad idea taking Ghostly Prison out of main would be, at least for armageddon stax.

Elspeth works great, but you really need to run humility main with it. That way the ghostlys not protecting it isn't as much of an issue.

Also, I have never (with 4 years experience playing stax exclusively) liked tangle wire in geddon stax.

[Steveman]

Yeah Q, I feel that your deck doesn't have enough creature control, I"d at least throw out the Juggernauts for Magus. Also, I think Ghostly Prison would be better than Tangle Wire. In my testing, I always found Tangle Wire underwhelming unless I played it together with Smokestack

[4zureSky]

I only have 3 solutions for qasali and that is damping matrix in sb n 3 o.rings and one wog in main deck for me :P I was never fan of Elspeth but more of a KoTr person :)

[danzam86]

Hello everyone! I'm new of this forum and I'm very interested about this deck. My current list is:

2 Baneslayer angel
3 Magus of the tabernacle

1 Elspeth, knght errant

4 Armageddon

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Crucible of Worlds
4 Mox Diamond
3 Smokestack
3 Trinisphere

3 Oblivion Ring
4 Ghostly Prison

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
3 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Kor haven
7 Plains
4 Wasteland


Sideboard:

1 Magus of the Tabernacle
3 Suppression Field
2 Runed halo
3 Tormod's crypt
2 Karmic Justice
3 Aura of Silence
1 ?

In this deck there's something wrong and I don't know what it is..any suggestion? I want to add one ravages of war to the maindeck, but where? Baneslayers are very good in this deck and I like the one copy of elspeth..Having two copy of smokestack is the same as put them out, so what?

[Otter]

It's not like there are a lot of options. Cutting too many lock pieces down to 3-ofs is dangerous and you can't really have any of them at 2 copies. Oblivion Ring is too useful as a catch-all answer to go to 2. I wouldn't go down to 24 land either, it's risky with Diamonds. That pretty much leaves you with getting rid of an Elspeth or Baneslayer.

Edit: Well, speaking from the standpoint of the traditional list, at least. If you want to branch out and try a non-conventional build, just read the last couple of pages in the thread, there are plenty there to try.

[4zureSky]

You can try cutting a City of Traitors for the 5th Armageddon effect. I too have 5 Armageddon effects. 3 Armageddons and 2 Ravages of War.

[Al-ucard]

Zoo its an easy matchup, I don't see the problem... Maybe its because you don't play suppresion field MD like me ;-p

[Moduloc]

What sideboard cards would you guys suggest for a field bogged down countertop decks.

[The Wes]

S. field, K. grip, Choke. But are you really that worried about countertop?

[Dark Ritual]

...Countertop? Only card they have we care about is goyf because it can be big and nasty. Along with their 4 daze and 4 FoW obviously. Staxx has 3 and 4 drops, 2 two drops (chalice at 1, suppression field out of the board).

Against zoo, you want chalice for 2 to stop pridemage and goyf. Chalice for one can get blown up if you don't have chalice at two set up to go online the next turn. Which is annoying; if they never see pridemage, you always want chalice at one because their whole deck is like 1 drops. The only times you want it at two is if they see pridemages or price of progress which can blow us out.

Ghostly prison + magus of the tabernacle seems like a hardlock against swarm decks. So don't say ghostly prison is a 'softlock'. G. Prison also combines well with armageddon and wasteland. Along with trinisphere.