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Thread: [Deck] Armageddon Stax

  1. #21
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    Re: Armageddon Stax

    Quote Originally Posted by xsockmonkeyx View Post
    Meh, his is better. This one isnt quite there yet.
    I concur. I'm not going to post his list, because it's his, but it seems inevitable anyway, so maybe he'll post it for us.
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  2. #22

    Re: Armageddon Stax

    I roll landstill unless they have vengeance/disk/deed. I've never played anything but U/W landstill in tournament play though, so its mostly just vengeance/disk that I look for.

    As far as goblins go, I do get paired up against them alot, but I've never lost a tournie match against gobs. In playtesting, I constantly get owned by not having enough pressure on before siege gang commander comes down and melts my face. Early bleeding on top of ancient tombs really screws me vs goblins, hence the nodes in the SB. The matchup is better now with magus, but it's still a rough one. I hate having 4 slots in the board that are only used half the time in a single matchup, so I might find a more versatile replacement.

    I'll try karmic justice over sacred ground though.
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  3. #23
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    Re: Armageddon Stax

    Hum, has anyone considered Leonin Abunas in sb?

    It avoid to be owned by shatering spree or krosan grip / ancient grudge

    At least, he is always better than trini/chalice against goblins

  4. #24

    Re: Armageddon Stax

    Quote Originally Posted by B4L4 View Post
    Hum, has anyone considered Leonin Abunas in sb?

    It avoid to be owned by shatering spree or krosan grip / ancient grudge

    At least, he is always better than trini/chalice against goblins
    Not true. I've Trini/Crucible/Wastelocked Goblins several times in tournaments with the help of Pithing Needle. Chalice is highly effective against Goblins as long as you rely on it to protect your other lock pieces from destruction and not as your only answer to vial/lackey.
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  5. #25
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    Re: Armageddon Stax

    Not true. I've Trini/Crucible/Wastelocked Goblins several times in tournaments with the help of Pithing Needle. Chalice is highly effective against Goblins as long as you rely on it to protect your other lock pieces from destruction and not as your only answer to vial/lackey.
    Hum, what i mean is, on the draw against gob, i always sb out chalice and trini, on the play it's different
    (on the draw) U can't answer vial / chalice without seal of cleansing/EE/nodes, and it makes your chalice really weak (maybe keep them if its white splashed gob..), and trini is bad here too (if u consider trini as a lock against them, it means that u go for geddon + prison plan, which is great with and without trini..)

    Abunas is at least a decent blocker..

  6. #26

    Re: Armageddon Stax

    @B4L4

    After reading your wonderful workstation exploits, I don't think anyone is remotely interested in your opinion about anything in magic.

    @obnoxious jerk:

    I guess all my goblin opponents in the past have been outdated, the only dangerous sideboard stuff I've ever seen against me was leave no trace. Is RG with hooligans and grip really becoming more popular?
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    It's a size thing. Europe has 300 million people, but only takes like 20 minutes to drive across the entire continent.
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    That's the most ridiculous thing I have heard.
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  7. #27
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    Re: Armageddon Stax

    Hum, believe it or not, but they are 2 B4L4 on mws, myself, and someone who try to create me an unworthy reputation

    But anyway, answering to someone's argument with : your argument is bad, cause of your reputation is quite "stupid"...

  8. #28

    Re: Armageddon Stax

    About Landstill :

    My biggest problems with Landstill comes from them getting just enough disruption to keep me off anything useful until they manage a Disk or Deed (Deed is by far my biggest nemesis and I wish we had access to a card just like it for perms with CC 2 or less). Post board, the Defense Grids help, but not with Deed or Disk. [I realize that some play Akroma's Vengeance, but I've avoided it for the most part - keeping them off 6 lands hasn't been that much of a problem]

    For B4L4 :

    I have tried Leonin Abunas a little, but most decks don't pack dedicated 'hate' for us (yet), so he always underperformed. I would rather side in a card that progresses my game plan or nullifies my opponent's (another 'threat') rather than a card that protects my stuff. Post board, most decks will still only have a few disenchant effects and our whole deck needs to be answered. I understand he can attack too, but let's face it - you're playing him for the ability, not the 2 damage from a 4cc creature. And I will argue until I am blue in the face that boarding out Chalice against Goblins is the wrong decision.

    I think the point you are missing with the Goblins matchup is that answering a first turn Aether Vial is not that big a deal unless they get the nuts off it. And honestly against this deck, I've found I'm more worried if they drop the Vial off a Port than anything else.

    Fred Bear...

  9. #29

    Re: Armageddon Stax

    Karmic Justice is the best answer I've found to Deed/Disk. Before Flash I ran a few in my sideboard. What's really great is when they drop Serenity, and then you play Karmic Justice and get a one-sided Geddon.

  10. #30
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    Re: Armageddon Stax

    Yes, I am indeed very sad. Sad as a panda. A SAD PANDA! (Incidentally, my deck is called Sad Panda) I'll post it and its primer after Kadi's.
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  11. #31
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    Re: Armageddon Stax

    Any chance this deck (the original posted) wants to run Null Rod in the board? It does shut down 8 of your cards (Explosives and Moxen) but some could be sided out for it. I've been looking for a deck to run it in, as I think it's a solid card in the current meta, with the rise of LED combo, and equipment based aggro, as well as good old Vial, which I imagine is a problem card in this deck (Also, it seems this deck would struggle against Affinity, but I could be wrong there too). This seems like a solid fit for the Rod since it can power it out so quickly. It's almost like another set of Chalices that can be set @0 against TES and IGGy.

    I might be mistaken though, since a lot of the decks Null Rod is solid against, Explosives is also very good against (ETW based combo comes to mind). Thoughts?

  12. #32
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    Re: Armageddon Stax

    Have you considered Windborn Muse? My friend Nam that always plays Angel Stax runs a playset of those in addition to Ghostly Prisons. 3W for a 2/3 flyer is really good when it has built in Ghostly Prison. Magus of the Tabernacle is good, and even though the fact that it forces you to also pay 1 probably isn't an issue, it seems like overall it might be a little less effective at stopping creatures from attacking you. The evasion is also pretty nice.

    A creature base of:

    4 Magus of the Tabernacle
    4 Windborn Muse
    4 Mishra's Factory

    With 4 Ghostly Prison in addition seems like a really strong anti creature package that doesn't need WW, while giving you plenty of win conditions to boot.

  13. #33

    Re: Armageddon Stax

    being able to answer their ghostly prison worries with a cycle of gempalm incinerator makes it far too risky to run the Muse imo. It's easier to lock out quite a few decks because they run more creature kill than they do enchantment/artifact hate. Making most of your permanents... well... permanent. :)

  14. #34
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    Re: Armageddon Stax

    Quote Originally Posted by sammiel View Post
    I roll landstill unless they have vengeance/disk/deed. I've never played anything but U/W landstill in tournament play though, so its mostly just vengeance/disk that I look for.
    What you should worry about is not Vengeance nor Deed. It's Disk... and nobody in the right mind will ever play that card. Deed is easy because it's 4c; you keep them off color unless they play that Bardo Landstill. Vengeance is just easy; you toy around their mana base like crazy. Of course, you have Geddon' to stall....


    @Hanni: In this deck, Windborn Muse is awesome. What would you run over with Muse?
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  15. #35

    Re: Armageddon Stax

    Quote Originally Posted by Anti~American4621 View Post
    What you should worry about is not Vengeance nor Deed. It's Disk... and nobody in the right mind will ever play that card. Deed is easy because it's 4c; you keep them off color unless they play that Bardo Landstill. Vengeance is just easy; you toy around their mana base like crazy. Of course, you have Geddon' to stall....


    @Hanni: In this deck, Windborn Muse is awesome. What would you run over with Muse?
    I don't know about you, but at least one of the UW landstill players around here never stopped running disk, in fact he runs it with ruins. That's the main reason that I left exalted angels in, is because I have to end the game quick against him.

    Personally, I love disk and don't see why more people don't run it. Obviously it's way too slow to serve as your primary removal, but as backup it's pretty awesome, and you don't need double white or b/g to cast it.

    I playtested windborn muse, and it just makes enemy removal more relevant g1. Maybe side them in game 2 imo.
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    It's a size thing. Europe has 300 million people, but only takes like 20 minutes to drive across the entire continent.
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    Europe is Huge, no wonder people question Americans Geography skills

  16. #36
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    Re: Armageddon Stax

    Wouldnt splashing black for dark ritual and braids help this deck, dark ritual will help you get out turn 1 3sphere (managible for this deck because it runs 2 mana lands) or even turn 2 magus. This would allow you to run a creature base that stacks as control components. 6-8 smokestacks seems pretty cool.
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  17. #37

    Re: Armageddon Stax

    Quote Originally Posted by technogeek5000 View Post
    Wouldnt splashing black for dark ritual and braids help this deck, dark ritual will help you get out turn 1 3sphere (managible for this deck because it runs 2 mana lands) or even turn 2 magus.
    Dark Ritual is bad because it:

    (a) requires changing a stable manabase
    (b) is card disadvantage that cannot be offset by Crucible
    (c) is dead after turn 2
    (d) is dead if you are executing your gameplan (Chalice @ 1, Trinisphere)
    (e) is not able to be sacrificed to Smokestack

    As far as acceleration, there are already four moxen, 11-12 double mana lands, and 4 crucibles. This is more than enough acceleration for consistent early plays (consistently allowing 4 mana turn 2) while not altering the manabase for cards that absolutely must be draw in the first two turns while not having already played a Trinisphere or a Chalice @ 1.
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  18. #38

    Re: Armageddon Stax

    About Pernicious Deed & Nevinyrral's Disk :

    Karmic Justice would be a good answer to Deed/Disk. I just wish there was a way around having to side in such a reactive card. Relying entirely on mana disruption to keep your opponent off devastating cards is not enough for this deck, especially when those cards are played in control decks. The toughest games that I've had with this deck is when either your first 3 'threats' are countered or they let you play right into a Deed/Disk and counter the Armageddon.

    I even tried Disk in this deck in the EE slots. I just couldn't justify it since the number of times it either sat on the board waiting to become Smokestack fodder or sat in my hand because there were better cards to cast were too numerous even as a 2-of.

    About Null Rod :

    Null Rod is an ok card, but the applications are too specific to warrant use in the deck or sideboard. Other effects that are already included in the deck are more devastating to the decks packing Lion's Eye, etc. Null Rod will randomly hose equipment, Vials, etc., but other cards do a better, more universal job against those decks.

    About Windborn Muse :

    I have never tested a full playset, simply because I haven't been able to find room. As a 2-of, it tested terribly. Without a Chalice at 1, it will get Swords, Bolted, etc. etc. etc. and is not 'a fifth Ghostly Prison' since it becomes so easily removed. I almost always wished it was a different card in the deck. I did not find that it significantly increased the clock against combo (it will randomly hose Empty the Warrens, of course) and I did not find that it provided any more of a lock against Aggro (easy to remove). I always found that I needed Muse + another card to get the effect that I really wanted, which was how I justified not wanting a full playset. I guess I could see playing it in an environment that is more heavily weighted towards Goblins or other fast aggro (though I can't recall losing more than a handful of matches to non-Goblins aggro), but what do you take out?

    Specifically at Hanni :

    If I were to run that creature base, I don't think you could run 4x Factory simply because you should be running a playset of Wasteland in your mana base. Taxation + Mana Denial fits the strategy better than Factories. This is why I choose to run Wasteland over Factories in my build, in general.

    About Black Stax :

    It's a different deck. That's the quick answer. emidln makes good points about some of your suggestions, but, ultimately, Black Stax is an entirely different deck. I think there's even a thread for it here somewhere.

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  19. #39
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    Re: Armageddon Stax

    Quote Originally Posted by sammiel View Post
    I don't know about you, but at least one of the UW landstill players around here never stopped running disk, in fact he runs it with ruins. That's the main reason that I left exalted angels in, is because I have to end the game quick against him.
    Still.... You get Armageddon early.... like almost always. You should prevent them from their Turn 4 through Wastelands and early Geddons'.

    Personally, I love disk and don't see why more people don't run it. Obviously it's way too slow to serve as your primary removal, but as backup it's pretty awesome, and you don't need double white or b/g to cast it.
    I agree. It was good in the era of UW Landstill.
    I playtested windborn muse, and it just makes enemy removal more relevant g1. Maybe side them in game 2 imo.
    I fail to doubt this in a deck full of Bombs and Soft Lock components.
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  20. #40

    Re: Armageddon Stax

    Have people considered replacing the Armagedons with Cataclysm or Catastrophe in order to have more control over the opponent's board position? Armagedon seems like such a win more card sometimes, while Cataclysm and Catastrophe are full on reset buttons.
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