Do you remember the name of the dude who beat you up BW?
Also, I run a similar deck so, I always keep some Ghostly type effects against TES.
Team Multi-Grain - We're wholesome.Originally Posted by frolll
It was a German that didn't speak a lot of English, I don't remember what his handle was off hand.
Right now I'm testing combo decks that don't use Empty the Warrens, so while I understand that the taxing effects stay in against TES, I'm more interesting in figuring out whether or not there's anything beyond Trinisphere and Chalice of the Void that I should be worried about game 2 and whether or not I can get away with SBing in Empty the Warrens game 3 if enough of the tax effects are boarded out.
Like, if you had to play against High Tide on a regular basis, what would your SBing plan be?
against High Tide, you want Rule of Law as a minimum. You must have a lock piece that survives Cunning Wish into Recall/Rebuild
Actually, Trinisphere is close to game over for them. They only have two outs before you Smokestack/Armageddon:
1) Survive to six mana to wish and bounce EOT.
2) Bounce + FoW on turn four, or Bounce + Remand on turn five.
Tangle Wire is good against both of these plans.
Glowrider comes in G2 vs combo. Against Solidarity there is Defense Grid as well. Rule of Law is also an option.
info.ninja
Yeah, Rule of Law looks like the best generic hoser, thanks.
As Armageddon Stax, what would you sideboard against Deadguy Ale type decks? (Black/White land destruction with discard effects)
So far, I came up with Tangle Wire and Bottled Cloister, but it doesn't seem to be enough. From the earlier White Stax threads, people said that reactive cards like Karmic Justice, Hana's Custody, and Scared Ground doesn't really help all that much.
you lose.
Unless you dedicate narrow sideboard slots to fix these matchups, you just lose. You'll pull some games out, but those decks are a horrible matchup for stax.
Do you guys read the thread at all before asking questions?
Against black aggro decks bring in Bottled Cloister and Tangle Wire if your sticking to Machinus' built. Cloister will probably = a win if it resolves as long as they arent playing The Rack. (They stack damage before your hand returns).
Tangle Wire acts like multiple time walks against them since everything in their deck is sorcery speed.
If your playing my build bring in Duskrider Peregrine. He blocks everything in the deck giving you ample time to restock your hand. He jumps out of your hand early to avoid discard, he cant be Vindicated or Scrolled. Chalice protects him from Bolt/Chain. He also kills the opponent quite efficiently.
Again..
Duskrider Peregrine
If black is a big part of your meta pick them up. Play with them. I really cant stress how good this guy is for you.
I also bring in Jotun Grunt occasionally since they side out alot of removal, you become a 5/3 style deck out of no where. Black decks feed him well.
Against non EtW combo I bring in Sphere of Resistance and Glowrider. I like the rider over Rule of Law since it's actually a clock. It helps put pressure on combo at two angles.
@BreathWeapon
Why the hell are you playing non EtW combo?? If its to avoid the hate I refer you to the age old "There are no wrong threats, only wrong answers".
For reference my new sb..
4 Defense Grid
2 Sphere of Resistance
2 Glowrider
1 Tabernacle at Pendrel Vale
3 Duskrider Peregrine
3 Jotun Grunt
Defense Grid comes in against blue and Solidarity. The extra tabernacle effect is for goblins and EtW. Notice the significant man plan in the sb. This is huge if you need to go to three games due to time constraints. Winning the game on time is tech. You should all give this board a go. If black based decks arent a problem for you swap the Peregrine with Tangle Wire.
Now playing real formats.
Against solidarity you have no answer to Cunning Wish into Hurkyll's Recall/Rebuild pre or post-board. I think those glowriders need to be rules of law, other than that I like the SB. The problem with peregrine is that it may be great against B/W, but it's terrible against B/R.
Also, and I think Emidin has covered this in great detail in his primer for R/G stax, but what matchups does tangle wire help that aren't already favorable ones?
Playing Solidarity, against Stax you have no answer except Force of Will and Cunning Wish into Hurkyll's Recall/Rebuild... Defense Grid solves the former and Armageddon solves the latter.
The problem with Bottled Cloister is that it may be great against B/R but it's terrible against B/W... Choose your poison ;)The problem with peregrine is that it may be great against B/W, but it's terrible against B/R.
B/R has bigger creatures so there's a chance Peregrine will never come out of suspend before you die, however once he is on the table only Phyrexian Negator can get through so he's not that bad. As has been stated Chalice of the Void can protect him from Bolts but Dystopia is a pain (although Peregrine helps protect your other white cards for a turn).
In conclusion I'll keep the Peregrine because of his "lower" casting cost and because all the black decks I've seen so far in my meta splash white. Should you encounter more red splash sui decks (meaning no Disenchant effects) Bottled Cloister sure is a good alternative.
Glowrider performs the same role as Rule of Law. It is a lockpiece that cannot be bounced together with your artifacts but unlike Rule of Law it also kills the opponent. That is especially relevant as bane said if you need to finish the match in time because you can switch to the "man plan" and just go beat down backed up with ressource denial.
My guess for Tangle Wire is that it gets boarded in against almost all decks but the cards that go out for it are different every time. Like the fourth copy of a card that you couldn't quite squeeze into the maindeck because you want to play *random one-of* to improve your preboard matchup against deck xy.
"Anybody want some . . . toast?" —Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
Against Solidarity I still have Glowrider which mass artifact bounce doesnt hit. I dont see why your worried so much. Gearhart himself couldnt squeeze himself out of that situation when I played him without Rule or Rider. Getting Defense Grid -> Smokestack -> 3Sphere -> CotV all out aggressively in pretty much any order is just too much of a beating. They can get the 6 mana for Cunning Wish -> Recall sometimes if you cant drop a Stack but if you have a Defense Grid out there's really no hope for them. Since your palying Geddon now I dont see them reaching 5 mana even.
Your wrong about Peregrine. Red Death cant Bolt/Chain him with Chalice out so that leaves them as a mono black deck vs a pro black 3/3 flyer yet again. You dont always need the chalice either since any smart Red Death player will surely be smart enough to board out his burn/removal..
Your right on Tangle Wire. I feel it still improves the black and Landstill matchups quite a bit, which can both be problematic, but Ive dropped it from my board since my meta disregards those matchups atm.
Like Silverdragon said, Bottled Cloister gets Vindicated and can lose you the game. Negator is still an issue but you can stall him with Prison or Factory till you see a Magus or Peregrine. Its probably worth noting you want Jotun Grunt against Negators and Rotting Giants for the early protection.
Now playing real formats.
Because the deck is U/b with 4 Tendrils and no access to red mana game one.
I guess I meant.. Why would you play a combo deck that doesnt run Empty the Warrens? I'd only make an exception for Gamekeeper. Aside from that storm combo should always figure out how to produce a red mana for 12 goblin tokens.
What other matchups are people finding problems with? I have difficult times with decks that features LftL or Crucible. Moreso Crucible since you can shut down loam decks with Chalice@2. Crucible will never leave the table. My short sighted plan is Jotun Grunts.
Now playing real formats.
Actually of all combo decks, Trinisphere hurts Solidarity the least. I've played games where I've had Trini out and they go off around it thanks to... Turnabout. I forget that could tap my Trini to shut it off, but it can.
Team Multi-Grain - We're wholesome.
It depends on the deck, for instance if I'm using 4 Infernal Contract, 4 Cruel Bargain and sacrificing Lion's Eye Diamond for black mana, the odds of me having red mana for Empty the Warrens and not being able to win with Tendrils of Agony instead are low.
You also have to reconsider the traditional threat versus answer paradigm, because that philosophy is based on Goblin Lackey vs Swords to Plowshares and not Empty the Warrens vs Pyroclasm comparisons. If an opponent Swords to Plowshares a Goblin Lackey, the Goblins player doesn't lose, if an opponent Pyroclasms and Empty the Warrens, the combo player loses. Empty the Warrens is comparable to Worldgorger Dragon, it turns the opponent's "answers" into "win conditions."
On the one hand, you want the threat of Empty the Warrens in order to get the opponent to consider countering your acceleration, but on the other hand, you really don't want to see an Empty the Warrens resolve and then get Stifled/removed. Ask yourself whether or not you'd want to play a combo deck with 3 MD Empty the Warrens and 4 MD Burning Wish against a control deck with 4 MD Sandstorm and 4 MD Pernicious Deed and you'll understand the position I'm in.
Sucker :P
info.ninja
Have you thought about playing 1-2x The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale?
I think it would fit the deck nicely
I play one copy in my sideboard.
@BreathWeapon
But there are no wrong threats, only wrong answers. I dont like Contract Tendrils because it scoops to mage.
It sucks just as bad to get Tendrils Stifled. Its an advantage to attack from two kill mechanics.
Now playing real formats.
SI doesn't scoop to mage. In all tested builds (outside of the one labeled "QSI" that comes with a warning saying that I'm testing secondary win conditions) there are at least 2 win conditions maindeck. You will always find Tendrils, and then either ETW, Brain Freeze, or Goblin Charbelcher, sometimes accompanied by Tomb of Urami.
BZK! - Storm Boards
Been there, tried that, still casting Doomsday.
Drawing my deck for 0 mana since 2013.
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