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Thread: [Deck] Landstill - Former DTB

  1. #1
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    [Deck] Landstill - Former DTB

    Landstill is one of the premier control decks in the Legacy format. It is a control deck that can easily be customized for specific environments. This has been proven across multiple environments in varied locations. This deck is one of the more forgiving control decks due to the fact that it has the ability to support board sweepers to get rid of any problem permanents that may land on the table.

    Through the years Landstill has gone through many incarnations.

    Landstill in its original form (from the old format) can be found here:
    http://mtgthesource.com/cgi-bin....82;st=0

    With the transition to the new format, it is only lacking Mana Drain, while a decent blow to the deck, still allowed it to function with the replacement Counterspell.

    Shortly after the format had changed the deck was adjusted to accommodate the loss of Drain and added a new card that is tailored for the deck: Crucible of Worlds. These updates were discussed here:
    http://mtgthesource.com/cgi-bin....=4;st=0

    Onto the latest build. This deck has gone through many adjustments and variations to fit into the new environment. It has had to adjust for the transition of the meta due to the changes to the format in September. This is the build that will be discussed in this thread.


    U/w Landstill (Geoff Smelski)

    Removal:
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    4 Wrath of God
    3 Disenchant
    3 Akroma's Vengance

    Attack:
    2 Decree of Justice
    2 Eternal Dragon

    Draw/Filter:
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Standstill
    2 Fact or Fiction

    Counters:
    4 Counterspell
    4 Force of Will

    Lands:
    2 Plains
    2 Islands
    4 Tundra
    4 Flooded Strands
    4 Wasteland
    4 Faerie Conclave
    4 Mishra's Factory


    Card discussion:

    I will leave out the obvious (ie. Standstill, Manlands, Wasteland, STP, etc..) as they can be found in previous threads.

    Fact or Fiction: Excellent and powerful draw. Fact or Fictions re-entering into the format was a good boost for control decks and any other deck that can afford to splash for it. It has the problem of being on the higher end of the mana curve for the deck making running a full set a nuisance at times. 2 in the maindeck has been a good number as drawing them in the first few turns can be quite cumbersome.

    Wrath of God: With the format swaying towards agro decks, Wrath of God was a natural inclusion. One of its main advantages is that it allows you to let the opponent to overextend and then generate an extreme advantage by casting this sweeper.

    Akroma’s Vengence: This may be the most controversial card in the maindeck. It has come into being, after agro started adjusting to Nevinyrral’s Disk by running artifact destruction spells. This sorcery sweeper can really be devastating to the opponent. When compared to Disk, it has the inherent disadvantage of being a turn slower, but it does, on the plus side, have the option of using the turn it is drawn.

    Disenchant: I don’t need to explain this card too much as it is one of the best utility cards printed. It has a use against most decks in the format currently and is rarely dead. It is just another form of removal that this deck is highly dependant on.

    Brainstorm: This is one of the best cards for its cost and effect. It doesn’t generate any card advantage, but the card quality that it allows for is outstanding. It will let you find the needed removal/counter that is appropriate for the situation. It also smoothes out a lot of early hands to make the early game go a lot better.

    Decree of Justice: With the rise in popularity in this deck, Decree is an obvious choice for the mirror match. It is an amazing “surprise” blocker against a lot of decks as well. It has the disadvantage of being highly expensive to generate tokens, but it also serves as a late game win condition.

    Eternal Dragon: A card I was very skeptical of at first, but after much testing I agreed that this card is well fit for the deck. Its main function in the deck is to help keep the mana base consistent by searching for lands (which it does nicely under Standstill), but it also has the option of becoming another late game finisher.

    Cards not included:
    Nevinyrral’s Disk: This is the card the original build of Landstill was based around. With the decks changes, Disk is a lot harder to protect for the turn that it is required to become active. Aggro decks have adjusted to prepair for a Disk hitting the table and getting rid of it before it is ready to blow. It did allow you the option of sweeping the board at instant speed when it was active, which is a noticeable loss, but it is out weighed with the replacement cards for disk (Vengence/Wrath)

    Stifle: This card is an excellent hoser to certain combo decks and provides a lot of utility. It has a use against almost any deck in the format and is rarely dead. This card can still be used in various metagames as it is very good against many decks.

    Crucible of Worlds: A highly accepted and used maindeck inclusion in a lot of Landstill builds. Crucible is excellent at providing a lot of utility with Wasteland/Fetchland/Manland recursion. It has a lot of uses in the mirror. It has recently hit the sideboard to accommodate room for maindeck Decree of Justice. This is a very debatable slot and I’m not saying that either is right or wrong, because they are both very viable options in the maindeck.

    This build has proved it self in many tournaments and across many environments. You must keep in mind that Landstill is a very flexible deck and can be easily adjusted and tailored to specific environments. While this is a widely accepted build and is what can easily be played in an unexpected metagame, the deck still has many options to its arsenal.

    Please discuss.
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  2. #2
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    Could you please explain the choice to have four Faerie Conclaves? My experience is that they can be slow and bothersome early in the game, distracting from better win conditions like Dragon and Factory. Considering the already high volume of threats in the deck, why add more that aren't as efficient (albeit still necessary in one form or another).

    Thanks in advance.

  3. #3
    Bryant Cook
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    Geoff up'd the count to 4 because of the mirror match in 'cuse. The mirror match is everywhere and the more uncounterable dudes the better. They are slow but they make up for it as an attackable island, Also against decks that play choke conclave untaps.

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    I'm not so sure that this is a widely agreed upon list. It may have done well, but seems tailored to a specific meta. The lack of MD Crucibles is extremely questionable, especially for a build that is supposed to serve as an example for the deck. I would consider using a more mainstream build, that can do well in various metas.

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    Colsmack - If you read the part written about Crucible you will realize that it is an already debated slot. It's fine not to agree with an exact build, but state reasons why instead of just stating that you don't agree. The fact is, this exact build has won 2 big tournaments on it's own in completley different areas, along with winning a lot of smaller tournaments.
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    Crucible, how would you feel that in a mirror match, you will get wastelands/crucible lock thrown at you?

    Nevinyrral's Disk, I see as an oxymoron. Why in hell would you play a sorcery, that takes up your mana from activating manlands, paying 6 mana?
    Disk is good, it can be activated in instant speed, it works on turn 5. When you do at the end of your opponent's turn, you can attack with all your manlands on your turn!
    Akroma's Vengeance won't let you do anything, because it's a sorcery. You play it, and you go all like, I wish i can attack you for 2~16 right now. *sighs*

    Stifle; Not only this thing hates combo, it prevents manlands from getting scooped by wasteland.

    And FoF needs to be at threes.
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    Akroma's Vengeance was chosen in response to artifact hate against Disk. That was stated in the origional post, and I think it's a very good choice. Never dead. More likely to go through. It is, as stated, slower. If your meta hasn't caught on to Disk, then you can stick with it. My only true beef with that list is the inclusion of 7 sweepers..and 4 swords to boot. You could drop 1 Vengeance and 1 Wrath and you'd have plenty. And now you have two slots to do with as you please.

    And could you explain why FoF needs to be 3-of?
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  8. #8

    There are a couple of things I feel the need to respond to.

    And FoF needs to be at threes.
    Short of the Landstill staple cards with the auto inclusion of 4ofs, the rest of the cards, might it be Crucible, FoF, Stifle, DoJ, ED, E.Angel, or any of the other ones should be tailored to suit the meta game and not "needs to be at [insert number]". That is a strength of Landstill, be able to tailored to the specific meta to have the RIGHT NUMBER of reduntencies to max the effeciency of the deck.

    Vengence is slower than Disk is only applicable in turn 4 and 5. After that, Vengence is considered faster since top decking it means board wipe NOW, not a turn later. With most of the decks packing mainboard artifact hate, having the need to protect the Disk often means turn 6 cast with Counter to backup anyways, in which case a Vengence could have wiped the board by then. If I remember correctly, there is detailed disccusions in the original thread, so I don't need to repeat myself here. The only point I really wanted to bring up is that Vengence is not always slower than Disk, that is a misconception that a lot of you need to change your views on.

    EDIT: Forgot to respond to Stifle and Crucible.

    Crucible: The post did mention that it is SBed for mirror matches, not completely removed from the list. So while first match, the version packing Crucible might be at an advantage, but if the meta was packed full of combo and fast aggro decks, the version with Crucible might just lose because of the Crucible clogging in their hand, again, this is more of a meta issue than anything else. Also note that with the addition of 2 DoJ and 2 ED, the deck's win condition goes up by 50%, that might reduce the need of recurring manlands.

    Stifle: While it has a variety of applications, again, it is more of a meta game call more than anything else. Using the above example, if the meta was NOT filled with combos, instead, aggros such as Angel Stompy that runs limited "abilties", then Stifle becomes a liability in opening hand, especially multiples.
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  9. #9

    I am not an expert on this deck, but I have one question.
    As far as I know, the decks target is to play the control game, adapt to the opponent, sweep the boad and kill with the manlands.
    It seems to me as if this deck plays in the same way like in 1998 (not sure about the year, so lets say a long time ago) Counter-Post did. It used Forces, Counterspells, Boadsweepers and as kill the Kjeldoran Outpost. Standstill and a lot of other cards were not printed at this time.

    So what do you think about the inclusion of the Kjeldoran Outpost?

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    The thing about Outpost is that it rtequires you to sacrifice a plains, which can be tough. Also, your tokens die to Wrath/Vengeance/Disk which is a disadvantage. Outpost has been talked about before, read through the old thread.

    After looking over the decklist, I realize that this is actually a pretty standard build, but with different meta slots than I usually see. As it won 2 major tournamwnts, I'm sure it is very good.

    My last point is sideboards, what sidebards are most optiaml to deal with a variety of Legacy decks?

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    Don't forget that 3 of the 7 sweepers can be cycled for an extra card. I think this is also a reason Akroma's Vengeance was included; Unlike Nevinyrral's Disk, it's never a dead draw. In old Landstill builds, I would sometimes draw a Disk when I needed a win condition.

  12. #12
    Bryant Cook
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    Quote Originally Posted by imran
    so what do you think about the inclusion of the Kjeldoran Outpost?
    It's rather funny someone mentioned outpost, I just picked one up from Geoff Smelski 2 weeks ago to run in landstill. I'm currently running outpost over the 4th conclave. Geoff ran outpost in landstill for awhile, until he cut cruicible from the main deck. I myself love outpost over the 4th conclave It's a decree of justice in a land form. Also provides as a great blocker for something you can't handle (example:troll) without your lands dying if you don't have cruicible.
    As for vengenance Vs. Nev. disk Vengance is way better. Instant speed mass removal is nice but the only card you fear at an instant speed is decree of justice, which is why I run 4 stifle in the board. Everything else you don't have to worry about.

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    I personally run a list very similar to this, but have Crucible in the deck over Decree, with Decree out of the board. I rely more on recurring manlands than a big Decree to win.

    What about Blinkmoth Nexus? It might be less damage efficient than other manlands, but with crucible it is an infinite blocker, with flying. You can't block all day with Conclave and Crucible.

    Finally, what are staple cards in the board? I would say Humility, CoP:Red, and either Decree or crucible depending on which is MD are run in almost all SBs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by colsmack
    What about Blinkmoth Nexus? It might be less damage efficient than other manlands, but with crucible it is an infinite blocker, with flying. You can't block all day with Conclave and Crucible.
    Nexus is a great card, but it doesn't produce U, which makes it extremely tough to run over Conclave and it is strictly worse than Factory.

    Quote Originally Posted by colsmack
    Finally, what are staple cards in the board? I would say Humility, CoP:Red, and either Decree or crucible depending on which is MD are run in almost all SBs.
    I am in the process of writing up a sideboard strategy article, mainly you have a ton of options including:

    Humility
    Reverence
    COP:RED
    Pulse of the Fields
    Stifle
    BEB
    Morphling
    Chill
    Tormod's Crypt
    Pithing Needle
    etc.....the list goes on.
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    Of the red hosers, what does everyone feel is currently the best? Chill, Pulse or coP?

    Chill is good for slowing gobbos to where you can sweep and stabilize the board, against bur decks, it can slow them enough but weakens without Pulse.

    Pulse is a little slow, but works wonders with Chill. Slowjng them down for multiple plays of this just destroys red. Not so hot on its own IMO.

    CoP:Red can work well on its own, all game, and deal with multiple threats at once. I feel that this is the best option, as it doesn't rquire as mana SB slots, and can slow the game down by shutting down many threats a turn.

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    Pulse is absolutely _amazing_. Using it for a few turns encourages Goblins to overcommit, then you Wrath and win the game. And unlike COP: Red, it has use against all aggro decks.
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  17. #17

    I've been playing landstill for a few months, and I have some questions and comments:

    I have been playing with -1 Wrath, -2 DoJ, +3 Crucible MD. Is 3 Crucible needed? I find that when I resolve them, I win, but I don't always find them when I could use them. This is often because I ship them back to hiding with Brainstorm in the early game to protect them from discard, and because I'm afraid of tapping out in the early game w/o Force backup, but waiting for counter backup takes a long time (Turn 5, past many decks FT). On the other hand, crucible is so devastating, and I play in a meta full of either scrubs or survival decks that roll over to wasteland, so it seems that 3 Maindecked is the right choice. No one else plays Landstill in my area, so that probably changes my perceptions.

    I have been using Disks instead of Vengeance. I know that disk is inferior (except for the instant bit), but, since I do not find much or any artifact hate in my meta, would you run it? (i.e. No one will blow it up, so does that make it good enough?)

    Again, since I do not have any other landstill players in my area, is there any reason not to play a delta instead of the 4th Conclave? Would the Outpost be better here? What about a 3rd basic island?

    I have been running 3-4 Tormod's Crypt in my sideboard, because it can hose random decks that like their graveyard, such as Reanimator and Cephalid/Full English Breakfast. Also, Crypt shuts down the Survival decks I encounter.

    For other sideboarding bits, I tested Exalted Angels, and tapping out early for them was not good--they would get burned out when morphed, and turn 6 is too slow too start stopping fast burn/aggro (you are dead).

    While contemplating tech, I thought of an interesting idea. If you maindeck crucible, Mox Diamond becomes an interesting choice. It may require the addition of 2 more lands, but being able to have a turn 1 counterspell or standstill seems like it would be good, in addition the the tempo boost it gives (the boost would end on turn 6, I imagine). Perhaps this has already been tested, but it seems like it just might have potential in the right metagame. Also, the discarding of a land might hurt too much, or its deadness under standstill, but it seems like it could be played around. I will test it for a few hours when I return to my home tommorrow night.

  18. #18

    Anyone thinking of playing Balance?

    It's a wrath of god for 1W and you can probably discard some uneeded disenchant/land to it. Also, it helps make sure your opponent has the same number of lands and/or cards in hand as you.

    And Kjeldoran Outpost looks interesting. [glare]

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boogy_Boy
    Anyone thinking of playing Balance?
    That card is not recommended at a sanctioned tournament considering it's banned from the format and all.
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    Balance would make you discard a lot of your hand, and you want to kee pyour hand full. Not to mention its banned in the format...

    Did you ever wonder why no one ever suggested Balance for any other deck using white, or why the Balance deck wasn't played? :;):

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