[Deck] Landstill - Former DTB

[Wobbles The Goose]

Here's what I played in the Source Tourney III to a second place finish.
2x Plains
3x Faerie Conclave
3x Island
4x Tundra
4x Mishra's Factory
4x Wasteland
1x Reverance
1x Decree of Justice
1x Arcane Laboratory
1x Humility
2x Pithing Needle
2x Crucible of Worlds (This should almost certainly have been a one of)
3x Mana Leak
2x Fact or Fiction
3x Enlightened Tutor
4x Counterspell
4x Force of Will
4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Brainstorm
4x Standstill

SB (Which is complete jank, except for the Exalteds)
2x Deep Analysis
1x Serenity
1x Ivory Mask
2x Eternal Dragon
1x Pithing Needle
1x Humility
2x Reverance
1x Decree of Justice
4x Exalted Angel (Aggro!)

Completely unpolished. Reverance is a house against basically everything, and I feel better then moat (though that should have been in the board). No disks or vengences, because you are generally relying on your own enchantments to stay alive. No wraths, but thats probably a mistake, at least having some in the board or something. I would certainly drop a crucible for an aura of silence. It's probably a mistake not including an Ancient Den in the main, because against most aggro decks you just need humility or reverance to stabilize, and for that you need a second white, but it also can mean a goblins player with two wastelands beats you. Then again, if you have the cards you need in hand, I would feel pretty safe pithing the wastelands turn one.

[SpikeyMikey]

Perhaps I misspoke. What I meant to say was that in an idealized metagame, Pulse doesn't belong in the maindeck. It's fair to say that there isn't much of an idealized metagame anywhere right now, and that in certain metgames (read: aggro-heavy), Pulse is in fact strong enough to warrant maindeck slots. In an "ideal" meta consisting of vaguely equal parts aggro/combo/control, MD Pulse would be a bad call.

Yes, but you're not going to see that ideal metagame. Whether people choose to accept it or not, and god knows everyone denies it, but this is currently an aggro driven environment, on the whole. Why there aren't more people playing Solidarity, I'll never know, but at the moment, aggro is where it's at. Start counting up T8 #'s and looking at the decks that are winning big tourneys.

While I agree that Disk runs into a lot of hate, especially incidental hate aimed at Survival match-ups, Vengeance *is* incredibly slow. I'm not sure I can countenance the switch. It makes dealing with aggro far more difficult in the early game. It's great late game if you've got a good hand early that lets you survive that long, but if you don't, it's just dead wood. The ability to cycle it is nearly irrelevant, it costs 3 to do so, and in the early part of the game, when things are at their most hairy, chances are, you won't have time to do that. By the time you get to Vengeance mana, chances are, your life total is low enough that you're just using it as an over-priced StP, maybe catching a second critter if you're lucky, but I don't see you getting to 6 mana and still being at over 10 life. Not unless your opponent mulled to 5 and kept a no land opening.

Of course, I don't play U/W Landstill, I feel the deck is too slow to reliably compete with aggro, and I'm willing to back that up testing with anyone who thinks otherwise, but I don't think the correct response to hate is to add even slower utility.

[bigbear102]

I would like to see the list you are running if you can't compete in the aggro matchup, U/W is especially good in that matchup.

With StP, Wrath, and counters you should be able to stay in it. Decree for blockers keeps you alive also. At that point the Vengeance is good.

Geoff Smelski performs with this deck every week. He has no trouble with aggro.

[Bryant Cook]

I thought there was a rule of no spamming up threads with decklist, Whatever happened to that?
As for the whole aggro match-up Spikey Mikey I don't know who you are playing against, But they have got to be the worst landstill player ever. With wrath, vengance, swords, Cruicible (factory is removal as far as I'm concerned.)
Absorb seems decent but why use a 3 colored counterspell to gain 3 life when you could swords a factory?

[baptist]

A friend of me plays Vedalken Shackles in his deck. He says that you can steal manlands with this card when I make a creature of them and that they stay in play on his side.

Is this correct?

Please keep rules related questions to the rules forum. For clarification see the following thread:
http://mtgthesource.com/cgi-bin....19;t=66
-Jander



Edited By Jander78 on 1121708127

[mulder]

A friend of me plays Vedalken Shackles in his deck. He says that you can steal manlands with this card when I make a creature of them and that they stay in play on his side.

Is this correct?

Gelooft ge me niet Baptist :p

Last time I used the Shackles in my sideboard, but i had to board them in almost every time. There aren't a lot of decks that don't use creatures, and since you can use them to steal manlands too, it's not dead against Landstill either. And if you're playing against aggro, one Shackles can swing the game, effectively eliminating two creatures, since you can use the one you stole to block another one with.

[pater]

Playing in a meta-game with a decent amount of aggro decks, my creature control in MD consists of:

3 Wrath of God
3 Nevinyrral's Disk
4 StP

Shackles sounds like a good play but from experience I haven't needed more creature control. The only deck that really seems to overflow with creatures is Vial Goblins. Even then, Chills in SB tend to slow that down enough where you can control the game by the time they get going.

Absorb doesn't seem to fit in the deck at all. Style points rewarded, but Pulse does buy the time you need to get a sweeper. Pulse always buys at least 2 more turns and sometimes forces them into mana-burn mode. Pulse > Absorb.

[Braves54321]

Oh yea, I forgot to post after Big Arse.

Anyways,

I have added 2 Mystical Tutor to my build, and have absolutely loved it. Finding a wrath when its needed, a decree in the mirror, or, if nothing else a FoF has been great.

It saved my ass a few times on saturday when I needed to find disenchant asap to kill a crucible/jitte.

I also cut Akroma's Vengenance, because its the slowest removal ever, I'd run disk over it, but thats my own personal choice.

So has anyone else tested Mystical Tutor?

[B is for Big Job]

I have and it was simply amazing. In playtesting against gobs it was so good. Helped me clear his board and pwn his 1st turn lackey onto the train to poundsville

[KillerWhiteRabbit]

I also tried it, but was not quite so impressed with the results. I always found that by the time i drew it the next turn it was too late, and the current threat had already killed me or made my sollution pointless. I always found myself sideing them out for real answers and wishing i had my 2 chain of vapors back(yea, i play them).

Surprisingly, vengence was a godsend to me last weekend (local tournament, can't believe i forgot big arse...). It's less picky boardsweeping was disgustingly effective (once i took out a pithing needle set to mishra's, a wild mongrol, meddling mage set to wrath, Jitte with no counters, aether vial with 2 counters, and an equiped SOfI), and it's cycling was greatly appreciated in the 2 mirrors i ended up playing. To each thier own, i guess.

Last week i also spent some time testing out shackles. I always had the stolen critter for a turn or 2, then either ended up wrathing or vengence(ing) due to an incoming horde that my one stolen guy had no chance of stopping. Against ATS and almost anything else in my meta, this card is even weaker as it can simply be bounced/killed (everyone where i play runs MB hate due to the presence of affinity). I really hate vengencing my own stuff away, too, so it seems like: extra permanents=bad.

[67-1122470612]

Does The Tabernacle At Penderell Vale have a place in this deck? Im thinking that a copy or two may have a spot in the board versus Gobbos or ATS. Heres my thinking:

Pros:
Helps restrict the abuse of Aether Vial.
Really imedes any development based on mana critters.
Cant be countered.
Strong synergy with man-land kill mechanism for the deck.
Good control mechanism that can be played under Standstill.

Cons:
Doesnt produce mana.
Legendary land.
Wasteland-able.

All in all, I think that the pluses would outweigh the minuses in those matchups. The fact that it is vulnerable to Wasteland can be seen as a plus actually, because every Wasteland that hits a Tabernacle is one that didnt hit a colored source or manland. Like a Cabal Therapy for Wasteland. :)

Has this been tried yet? Am I missing something?

[Destavi]

Not producing mana is huge. The worst games this deck has it when it doesn't have the mana to WoG, FoF, or two blue for a counter. Impeding your mana development is the wrong way to go about evolving this deck.

This deck should smoke ATS and goblins anyway. It would have to be a sideboard card, and there are way better sideboard cards for both of those matchups. Wrath should do the same thing anyway, and it does it much better than the Tabernacle. Against goblins, you have your pick of COP: Red, Chill, Humility, etc. Imo COP: Red is the best.

Against ATS, the entire maindeck is great against them. For sideboard you should bring in 2-3 Tormod's Crypt. I wouldn't worry about the matchup too much after that.

[KillerWhiteRabbit]

[color=#000000:post_uid11]Do you really think that crypts are necissary in the SB? I've found that they are nice, but too much of a silver bullet for my purpuses. The ATS matchup is already strong in your favor, even post board. I have yet to loose a game to ATS.

I really like the idea of tabbernackle, and i really don't think that the not producing mana part is as bad as Destavi makes it out to be. When you swap it in, it won't replace a land but rather something else as to keep your manabase intact. Also, the one time walk it does provide your opponent is more than made up for in thier upkeep costs screwing with thier tempo. I would really like to try this out, but my SB slots just seem so tight right now...

3 COP:red
3 Pulse of the fields
2 crucible of worlds
2 tefferi's response
3 disenchant
2 stifle

Any ideas on what to cut for a tabbernackle (TAPV?)?[/color:post_uid11]

[Bryant Cook]

Meh, I hate the idea of tabbernackle it's just more of a win more card. Does landstill need extra removal? really think about it 4x wrath is enough by itself. Why not put in glacial chasum (sp?) then? That card stops combat damage! Sorry for being a dick but the card is not needed. As for your SB KillerWhiteRabbit IMO cruicible should be maindeck.
Here's my sideboard:
3x cop:red
3x pulse of the fields
2x Gaea's blessing (it's sad I know but it works and you can always brainstorm and shuffle it back.)
2x tormod's crypt
4x stifle
1x decree of justice (For the mirror, I run 2 main.)

[midnightAce]

I know this is an age old debate, but I feel the need to bring it up: Furnace vs. Crypt.

Looking at BAII results, Gro varients depends on Threshold quite a bit to deliver their blow, as for other SotF deck, there are only key cards such as Squee, Genesis, Anger needs to be removed, in Landstill mirrors, the ability to remove their manlands/Wastelands in grave is important to ensure your OWN Crucible lock.

All that be said, Crypt is a one shot deal, and can often be stopped by Stifle. Like the NOQ thread pointed out, when Gro mirror matches happen, Furnace is prefered over Cypt to continuesly eat away the opponent's graveyard, and at worst, cycles for cards. Should Landstill be borrowing that principle and switch Crypts to Furnace instead?

[troopatroop]

In response to comments before about ATS being an amazing matchup, I have to disagree with you. I've played against Landstill alot in tournaments and have finished ahead by alot. I'm not claiming it to be a positive matchup for ATS, but its pretty damn close to even. I really don't fear landstill when playing ATS. Either the ATS players you played against were mediocre, or they drew utter crap. Either way the matchup definetly isn't amazing for you. You should in no way "smoke" them.

[pater]

Through my eyes, If a Landstill player knows how ATS works, they should be able to beat it; not smoke it, but get the win.

[kimberley]

re: crypt/furnace
In my area Ur is as viable as Uw-Landstill. We strictly play Furnace not Crypt. In Ur i play two of them MD and feel no need at all to cut them. Having Yardhate Game 1 has won me many games in the extremely bad matchups Ur has (SA, TheRock).

re: ATS
I have played all three decks Uw, Ur and ATS, and i have won several Tournaments with each of them. In my team we have tested these matchups extensively and have reached the result: From our point of view... Landstill very well smokes ATS.
It is a fact i don't like, cause ATS is the Deck i love most of those three, but i had to accept it.
The concrete numbers of our testing results:
ATS vs. Uw
35% - 65%
ATS vs. Ur
25% - 75%
Those were games (half pre board half post board), not matches). Testing Volume: about 90 games.
My experience in tournaments is exactly the same: I have never seen ATS win a match against any Landstill deck whatever obscure splashes and choices they ran.
I had to draw against subpar Landstill once too (running exactly Diablos list at that time and winning the tournament despite that draw).
Of course all testing may fail if either the decks or the plays are flawed. For my skill i cannot guarantee you anything, but if anyone wants lists of the used decks he or she may pm me.
I don't want to aggressively push forward this opinion (and i am sad i did not get around the word 'fact'), but just want to show my expierience and....well...
...vote for "smokes".

[Destavi]

I know this is an age old debate, but I feel the need to bring it up: Furnace vs. Crypt.

Looking at BAII results, Gro varients depends on Threshold quite a bit to deliver their blow, as for other SotF deck, there are only key cards such as Squee, Genesis, Anger needs to be removed, in Landstill mirrors, the ability to remove their manlands/Wastelands in grave is important to ensure your OWN Crucible lock.

All that be said, Crypt is a one shot deal, and can often be stopped by Stifle. Like the NOQ thread pointed out, when Gro mirror matches happen, Furnace is prefered over Cypt to continuesly eat away the opponent's graveyard, and at worst, cycles for cards. Should Landstill be borrowing that principle and switch Crypts to Furnace instead?

I used to play Furnace but I found it too slow compared to Crypt. When it worked it was great, the problem I had quite a few times was that against threshold, one card a turn doesn't turn their guys off. Many games they would just keep dumping cards in, and I would be hopelessly far behind. In many of those games a Crypt would have taken all their steam away and turned all their guys "off". In the matches where you need it, it just seems like the Crypt is better, being able to shut off Threshold guys, against a Survival player's grave full of creatures, or as a quick answer to Reanimator the Crypt gets it does whereas Furnace removes a Fetch and says "go".

[kirdape3]

Furnace is a maindeck card because it is never dead (against decks that don't care either way, it cycles). Crypt is a board card because it actually does the job of eliminating the graveyard when you want it to.