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Thread: [Deck] Death and Taxes

  1. #4361
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Karakas and revoker usually do nothing against Omnitell. And Teeg don't disturb the normal winning route (show->Omniscience->Wish->Eladamri's call->Emrakul) of Omnitell.

    In the DnT vs Omnitell mu, the most important card is Thalia, undoubtedly. With Thalia and port in play, Omnitell cannot do anything dangerous before reach 5 mana.

    Also, your heroine received a new version:

    I hear they got twisters miles wide in the Midwest.

  2. #4362

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Tokugawa View Post
    Karakas and revoker usually do nothing against Omnitell. And Teeg don't disturb the normal winning route (show->Omniscience->Wish->Eladamri's call->Emrakul) of Omnitell.

    In the DnT vs Omnitell mu, the most important card is Thalia, undoubtedly. With Thalia and port in play, Omnitell cannot do anything dangerous before reach 5 mana.

    Also, your heroine received a new version:

    i'd rather my deck be either all non-foil or foil. i might grab one just for the hell of it tho

  3. #4363
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    Barook's Avatar
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    I liked some of the sketch ideas better.

  4. #4364
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    I don't think that I have ever cared about the art all that much. But I gotta tell ya, the freckles just do it for me.
    "Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
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  5. #4365
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    It looks like Kaley Cuoco with freckles, which I guess isn't the worst thing. Some of those sketches would probably have turned out better, but it's not bad.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
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  6. #4366

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    So I went to Eternal Clash today and I played a deck list that I've never seen anyone play anything close to, nor have I played anything close to that myself.

    The list I played was:

    Creatures (26):

    4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    4x Mother of Runes
    4x Flickerwisp
    4x Phyrexian Revoker
    4x Stoneforge Mystic
    4x Magus of the Moon
    2x Serra Avenger

    Non-creature spells (11):

    1x Umezawa's Jitte
    1x Batterskull
    1x Sword of Fire and Ice
    4x Æther vial
    4x Swords to Plowshares

    Lands (23):

    4x Wasteland
    4x Rishadan Port
    3x Karakas
    3x Windswept Heath
    2x Marsh Flats
    2x Plateau
    4x Plains
    1x Cavern of Souls

    Sideboard:
    3x Sudden Demise
    3x Ethersworn Canonist
    3x Rest in Peace
    2x Council's Judgement
    1x Cataclysm
    1x Ratchet Bomb
    1x Pithing Needle
    1x Containment Priest

    Here's how my tournament went:

    Round 1: Death and Taxes 0-2

    I played against the guy who lost to Thomas Enevoldsen in the top 8 of GP Strasbourg, he's apparently himself on D&T now but with Leonin Arbiter.

    I got crushed but it was just one of those unwinnable matches. He drew 4x Swords to Plowshares in game 1 which lasted about 6 turns and I drew 0 in 2 games.

    Round 2: Welder MUD 2-0

    My match was the first of all the matches to finish that round. He kept bad hands and got crushed both games by wasteland and Revoker.

    Sucks that I only play against basically Blood Moon proof decks so far but oh well.

    Round 3: Esper Deathblade 2-1

    Blood Moon AND Wasteland/Rishadan Port weak deck? SCORE!

    Game 1 I get a game loss for an error in my deck list, something I've never done or gotten before but I had not slept a lot the past 2 days so I was really groggy during the tournament and especially when I wrote the deck list in the train the morning on the tournament.

    Game 2 I play a bunch of creatures, they get Swords to Plowshares'd and on turn 4 I vial in a Magus of the Moon vs. his 3 nonbasic lands and that is the game.

    Game 3 I play an Æther Vial and double Wasteland + Thalia him to death.

    Round 3: ANT 1-2

    In game 1 I play Revoker on Lotus Petal and use Magus of the Moon to shut him off black mana completely. Game 2 he kills me on turn 2 and game 3 I draw nothing but 1 revoker and he goes to 2 life on Ad Nauseam and still gets there. Again not much I could do.

    Round 4: Affinity 2-0

    Jitte taking care of business and working over time

    Round 5: Esper Delver 2-0

    I Moon him and then I moon him

    Round 6: ???

    This round is completely blank for me but I can only assume that I mooned someone, but I won this round so I'm 4-2 at the time.

    Round 7: 12 Post MUD 2-1

    Really good match up but he got an early Metalworker down and played Wurmcoil + Myr Battlesphere on turn 3 or 4. I then fogged the Wurmcoil Engine for 2 turns with Flickerwisp and killed him anyways. Game 2 he drew all his 4 Cloudposts and played turn 3 Lodestone Golem, delaying my turn 3 Magus of the Moon and then he landed turn 4 Ugin which I couldn't do anything about. Game 3 I just played a few threats and ported him to death with my 3 Rishadan Port.

    So I ended 5-2 good for 12th place out of 71 players. I think it's ok, and I have no regrets. I would've loved to back to back top 8 this tournament but it wasn't meant to be.

    I am super happy with the red splash and I will continue to test it, I am looking for other people to test it as well, and I am looking for feedback definitely.

    Already ordered my Foil Magus of the Moons and I am looking at foil fetches and alpha Plateaus now, that's how much I believe in the viability of this splash

  7. #4367
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Magus of the Moon + Port/Wasteland seems pretty weird, at the very least.

    If you go for the read splash, why not try out Imperial Recruiter? Too slow for what it does?

    Sudden Demise looks like a pretty cool sweeper.

  8. #4368
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    Magus of the Moon + Port/Wasteland seems pretty weird, at the very least.

    If you go for the read splash, why not try out Imperial Recruiter? Too slow for what it does?

    Sudden Demise looks like a pretty cool sweeper.
    Definitely a +1 on recruiter, he's so dreamy. I would probably cut down on then magus, sfm, revoker and even Thalia counts to run him. Plus you can turn those avengers into toolbox one-ofs in Mirran Crusader and Containment Priest/Canonist/Mindcensor. Not to mention Flickerwisp shenanigans!

    Also, demise vs Elves sounds great.
    "Don't mess with me, lady. I've been drinking with skeletons."

    I write articles about Legacy Death and Taxes. Check them out.

  9. #4369

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Red death sounds like a cool name

  10. #4370
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    @Bahra: I think you should add another red source to the deck. You seemed to be stuck on your stuff more often than I liked it in yesterday's stream, so I went back and did the basic math since the green splash worked rather well.

    Thing is, you need at least 8 red sources to make the maindeck work, and that doesn't even include running Magus + Demise after boarding (which would be around 10 red sources if you ran the full set of 7 red cards). You currently run 7 true red sources (fetches + duals), plus Cavern as so-so red source. Vial is nice and all, but definitely can't be counted as a red mana source since top decking it makes you wait another 3 turns for action.

    Thus, I would definitely try out another red mana source to smooth things out. No need to scratch on the bare minimum.

    E-Tutor + Blood Moon for the board also comes into mind for the sideboard.

    @Barbed Blightning: Recruiter is something that needs to be tested out first, though. I talked to Bahra yesterday when he streamed and he thinks Recruiter is way too slow, and I also have my doubts until serious testing proves otherwise. He's probably great if you can grab a T1 Vial and play him on T3, but otherwise, you just time-walked yourself. I thought about initially running about 2 copies since that seems less excessive in terms of speed and cuts from the MD.

    @neddsaurus: Isn't Red Death already a RB deck? I'd prefer something like "Bloody Taxes", as it includes a reference to Blood Moon, too.

  11. #4371

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    @Bahra: I think you should add another red source to the deck. You seemed to be stuck on your stuff more often than I liked it in yesterday's stream, so I went back and did the basic math since the green splash worked rather well.

    Thing is, you need at least 8 red sources to make the maindeck work, and that doesn't even include running Magus + Demise after boarding (which would be around 10 red sources if you ran the full set of 7 red cards). You currently run 7 true red sources (fetches + duals), plus Cavern as so-so red source. Vial is nice and all, but definitely can't be counted as a red mana source since top decking it makes you wait another 3 turns for action.

    Thus, I would definitely try out another red mana source to smooth things out. No need to scratch on the bare minimum.
    I will try adding another red source to the deck.

    After hearing more about I'm warming up to Imperial Recruiter and I will test it to see how it does in the deck.

    Thanks for the feedback so far guys.

  12. #4372
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    It just occured to me:

    How about Mastery of the Unseen in our 75 for grindy match-ups? It guarantees us with a steady stream of new creatures (with Flash), and the lifegain could be quite something as well. Aside from the high mana investment, one disadvantage I see is that turning your creatures face up don't trigger SFM, Revoker and Flickerwisp, thus requiring a Flicker effect to get full value out of them.

    Thoughts?

  13. #4373

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Death and Taxes with red splash? Sounds like... Bloody Taxes

  14. #4374
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by kryllex View Post
    Death and Taxes with red splash? Sounds like... Bloody Taxes
    Taxes and periods.
    Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.

  15. #4375

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Bahra View Post
    So I went to Eternal Clash today and I played a deck list that I've never seen anyone play anything close to, nor have I played anything close to that myself.

    The list I played was:

    Creatures (26):

    4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    4x Mother of Runes
    4x Flickerwisp
    4x Phyrexian Revoker
    4x Stoneforge Mystic
    4x Magus of the Moon
    2x Serra Avenger

    Non-creature spells (11):

    1x Umezawa's Jitte
    1x Batterskull
    1x Sword of Fire and Ice
    4x Æther vial
    4x Swords to Plowshares

    Lands (23):

    4x Wasteland
    4x Rishadan Port
    3x Karakas
    3x Windswept Heath
    2x Marsh Flats
    2x Plateau
    4x Plains
    1x Cavern of Souls

    Sideboard:
    3x Sudden Demise
    3x Ethersworn Canonist
    3x Rest in Peace
    2x Council's Judgement
    1x Cataclysm
    1x Ratchet Bomb
    1x Pithing Needle
    1x Containment Priest
    While the formats are different, this is actually a much-discussed idea in the Modern DnT deck, and the mana denial path is largely the same. It is powerful, but it also does in your mana base. You have to have at least a Vial or 1-2 Plains or you can mess yourself up.

    Since I run the Green slash, but I don't run 4 G spells (only 3), and I can run Horizon Canopy, I only run 4 fetches and 2 Savannah without hurting my mana too much, and I don't run anything that makes my own duals bad.

    I like the basic idea and the build, though. There seem to be a lot of decks that just lost if you resolve Magus.

  16. #4376

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    I just played a daily with this list:

    I tested Imperial Recruiters and they were good.

    Round 1: Deadguy Ale 2-0

    He drew a lot of discard and Liliana but Imperial Recruiter allowed me to play around Liliana's edict and fetch Stoneforge Mystic that got Jitte and sealed the game. In game 2 he plays Lingering Souls and Liliana again and I again Imperial Recruiter for Stoneforge Mystic for Umezawa's Jitte and then I Sudden Demise away all his Spirits and lock the game with Jitte.

    Round 2: UWR Delver 2-1

    This picture sums it up:



    I would've lost terribly without Revoker and Magus of the Moon. I got the Mother of Runes active a little later.

    Round 3: UWR Miracles 2-0

    Typical miracles match, I grind him out and kill him with Thalia + Karakas game 1.

    Game 2 I needle Jace and play Revoker on Sensei's Divining Top. I fetch Sword of Fire and Ice and beat him down until he kills the sword and then regular beats gets him.

    In the end I was sitting with 2 Imperial Recruiters in hand (which I COULD cast) but they were really nice to have as quadruple insurance against Terminus (both being 2 threats in one).

    Round 4 UWR Stoneblade 2-0

    Game 1 he gets TNN + Jitte online but I fog it by playing a Flickerwisp, flickering my Flickerwisp and then flickering his Jitte in my end step. He gets counters on Jitte the following turn but 2 Flickerwisp 1 Thalia and a Mirran Crusader is too much for Jitte and his 1 life.

    Game 2 I wasteland him and Port him out of the game while beating down with a Phyrexian Revoker that's naming Umezawa's Jitte (which he has sitting on his board).

    So 4-0 against some very competent players, the Deadguy Ale and the UWR Stoneblade player were very good, the UWR Delver player was kind of new and the Miracles player was average.

    I ran into 3 bad match ups and crushed which felt really good and would've been very hard without the red splash.

  17. #4377
    Force of Will is my bitch
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    I have tried literally for years to come up with a taxer/punisher deck. I even got my last Recruiter for the job (you may have heard me grousing on the need for a search creature in D+T). I have some versions for you here. None of them work, and I will give you some insight why to help any of you along who wish to pursue it. There *SHOULD* be a deck in here somewhere, but it has bedeviled me for so long.

    We really should have a new thread though.

    4 Cavern of Souls
    4 Plateau
    1 Mountain
    1 Plains
    4 Wasteland
    4 Rishadan Port

    4 Aether Vial
    4 Ankh of Mishra
    3 Chrome Mox
    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    1 Batterskull

    4 Lightning Bolt

    4 Stoneforge Mystic
    4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
    4 Imperial Recruiter
    4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    2 Simian Spirit Guide
    2 Knight of the White Orchid
    1 Fiend Hunter
    1 Magus of the Moon
    1 Mother of Runes
    1 Zo-Zu the Punisher
    1 Avalanche Riders


    My initial try. This deck could not be counted on to succeed either as an aggro deck or as a control deck so I often ended up with stupid card combinations that did not have the same game in mind. Recruiter was a bomb though.

    I realized at some point that the deck probably needs Mother of Runes because the creatures are acting as hosers. You would think that I would have figured that from the start. The next list went into the direction of...

    Spirit of the Labyrinth
    Mother of Runes
    Winds of Change
    Oblation

    ...that I looked into with a fellow who calls himself Poppeleseed. I was able to live the dream often enough to keep me interested, but it could not deal with the format effectively.

    This is his next list that he said also did not work.

    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Plateau
    2 Mountain
    8 Plains
    3 Chrome Mox

    4 Simian Spirit Guide
    4 Stoneforge Mystic
    4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    4 Magus of the Moon
    4 Spirit of the Labyrinth
    2 Containment Priest

    2 Blood Moon
    1 Batterskull
    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    1 Sword of Fire and Ice
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Oblation
    4 Magma Jet



    The biggest issue I faced was that my opponents were able to do better than me under the duress of the punisher elements and were not sufficiently taxed under the taxing elements. As a result, I would often be in games where my opponent got out in front and were able to close the deal while I piled on harsh, but ultimately unsuccessful control and damage stuff that were hurting me in addition to my opponent.

    Some parting ideas are that Cavern is great with Chalice of the Void because you can still keep the 1-mana dudes. (really fun in a deck with Spirit of the Lab and Arcane Denial too [counter your own creature if you want to]) I think that I would actually try Chalice, Vial, Cavern, and Ankh in my next version. Thalia should still be at the center of any of these plans.
    "Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
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    "Politicians were mostly people who'd had too little morals and ethics to stay lawyers."

  18. #4378

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    I can not say for sure of course, but the problem seems to be that your lists are too "all in". At least that is the difference between yours and my list, and I am really liking my results :)

    My list is just D&T splashing for Magus of the Moon, Imperial Recruiter and Sudden Demise.

    I have no acceleration and I am using Magus of the Moon as just an additional taxing/disrupting effect. As well as it being a surprise factor that will get my opponents when they don't expect it.

    So far I have a decent win percentage with the deck and I have beaten match ups that are very bad otherwise. I think there's a lot of potential and it just needs some more work and it could be really good (it seems to already be pretty good )

  19. #4379
    Force of Will is my bitch
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    You are correct. Actually, I am sure that there are lots of problems with these and the other countless lists I have tried. To reverse the issue, the lack of a problem with what you are doing stems from the fact that it is based upon a proven winner. What I and my cohorts had been doing was to try to stake out an entirely new strategy. We have yet to discover it. I am sure that it is there, but it has gotten to the point that I feel I am looking for the northwest passage.
    "Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
    "Politicians are like diapers. They should be changed often and for the same reason."
    "Governing is too important to be left to people as silly as politicians."
    "Politicians were mostly people who'd had too little morals and ethics to stay lawyers."

  20. #4380
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Now that Recruiter has turned out to be good, wouldn't you reconsider inclusing a Mangara (I know, the cuts are hard) as tutor target, Bahra?

    Yes, it blows when you have Magus out, but in the end, it's the same as if you don't have Karakas available. Getting virtual 3 copies of Mangara for a single slot doesn't sound too shabby, though.

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