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Thread: [Deck] Death and Taxes

  1. #4901
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Having a tutorable Mangara in R/W is still a good catch-all answer to most everything. It's done a lot of work for me in my playing of R/W.
    Quote Originally Posted by nedleeds View Post
    Dat 1/1 with built in pump. Watch out Griselbrand here comes lizard mid range.
    Quote Originally Posted by Von View Post
    Is this a troll or are gobbos really dtb?

  2. #4902
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    yeah I've been going back and forth on it, but it's rarely been bad for me. I've also gone deep on caverns and he's another human.

    the r/w version is even more pure control/resource denial than tempo and having a (slow) get out of jail free card is nice, but you def give up some of your g1 advantage vs the aggressive tempo decks if you use one of the flex spots for another 1/1.

  3. #4903
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by c2232 View Post
    It is a reason for testing though.
    Quote Originally Posted by c2232 View Post
    I encourage people to test as many things as possible... It makes it easier for me when they come here and tell me it sucked. I don't get a chance to play often
    I agree with, and am in the same boat as, everything stated above. I'd just rather the testing take place before the forum post, so there's something more constructive than "ooh, shiny." Of course, one man's noise is another man's signal.

    Anyway, I've been having the same debate about Mangara. Vryn Wingmare and beefy beats like Crusader and Brimaz make a serious play for Mangara's slot(s) He does seem to better fit the Red build, where a 1-of tutor target can still further the strong mana denial plan. Running a single copy in mono-white or green makes drawing him at precisely the right times a total crapshoot.
    Most people blindly suggest new cards for decks. True contributors also suggest what to remove. It's not about what's good, but rather what's better than the current selections.

  4. #4904

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by kirbysdl View Post
    i agree with, and am in the same boat as, everything stated above. I'd just rather the testing take place before the forum post, so there's something more constructive than "ooh, shiny." of course, one man's noise is another man's signal.
    qft!

  5. #4905

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by ksmith View Post
    qft!
    Wha???

  6. #4906
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by c2232 View Post
    Wha???
    QFT = Quoted for Truth :)

  7. #4907

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Anyone try wear tear in rw? I have 2 council judgment, wondering if I should swap one out. Or maybe instead of relic warder

  8. #4908

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Quasim0ff View Post
    QFT = Quoted for Truth :)
    See, I always thought QFT means "Quit Fucking Trolling". A new day is upon us.

  9. #4909
    Bear Cub > Tarmogoyf

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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=QFT says "quoted for truth" is often seen on forums, whereas "quit fucking talking" is MMO-speak. I'm not a MMO person so I didn't know that one. It's also #8 on their definitions list so I guess forum-speak wins.

    Anyway, there was a recent discussion on MTGS about Containment Priest vs Spirit of the Labyrinth, with most people including me siding with Priest (assuming you don't have room to run both). Any dissenting opinions here?

    In other news, how about Mirran Crusader vs Brimaz? Crusader dodges Abrupt Decay and loves equipment, whereas Brimaz dodges Bolt, loves Jitte (like Avenger) and helps a lot against Pyromancer strategies (and to a lesser extent Mentor strategies) by spitting out 1/1s. I've been pretty happy with Crusader in my green splash, but am wondering if I should run Brimaz instead now that we have more tokens in the meta. Which do you run when you have room for it, and why?
    Most people blindly suggest new cards for decks. True contributors also suggest what to remove. It's not about what's good, but rather what's better than the current selections.

  10. #4910
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    I think both priest and spirit have proven to be pretty mediocre. even if I were playing the mono-white version I think I would play none - more ethersworn canonists are almost always better than spirit or priest, even against the decks spirit and priest are supposed to wreck. priest does barely anything against the best cheat-stuff-into-play deck and spirit does nothing against the best draw spell.

    brimaz def doesn't have a place in the red splash lists as crusader is a tutorable finisher.

  11. #4911

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by iatee View Post
    I think both priest and spirit have proven to be pretty mediocre. even if I were playing the mono-white version I think I would play none - more ethersworn canonists are almost always better than spirit or priest, even against the decks spirit and priest are supposed to wreck. priest does barely anything against the best cheat-stuff-into-play deck and spirit does nothing against the best draw spell.

    brimaz def doesn't have a place in the red splash lists as crusader is a tutorable finisher.
    I'm thinking for my 2 flex in rw to do mirran and ethersworn instead of fiend hunter. Have u tried wear tear? Any thoughts on red elem blast in sb? Most decks side out counters post board so I would imagine red elem resolves

  12. #4912
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    wear tear seems bad when you have leonin which is tutorable, vialable, and is a body. dnt is always gonna prefer to play the creature version of an effect but the red splash rewards that more than the others w/ the recruiter multiplier.

    I've tried a one of red blast in my sb a few times but still haven't actually drawn it. it's probably not terrible and can hit a dig or cast-TNN in the best cases, but I get the sense that in a lot of games you'd end up having to toss it at whatever.

  13. #4913

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by iatee View Post
    wear tear seems bad when you have leonin which is tutorable, vialable, and is a body. dnt is always gonna prefer to play the creature version of an effect but the red splash rewards that more than the others w/ the recruiter multiplier.

    I've tried a one of red blast in my sb a few times but still haven't actually drawn it. it's probably not terrible and can hit a dig or cast-TNN in the best cases, but I get the sense that in a lot of games you'd end up having to toss it at whatever.
    Leonin is only temporary removal. I prefer permanent, but lrw tutorability makes it more likely to hit when needed

    Red elem hits omni, jace as well. I was thinking of 2x but probably wrong. I'll give it a shot tho

  14. #4914


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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    After a few months of playing Death and Taxes I did a video intro for new players. Death & Taxes 201 with a companion article at
    https://youtu.be/LB0z9-UfUQg

    Death & Taxes 201 @moxboardinghouse

  15. #4915
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by kirbysdl View Post
    [url]In other news, how about Mirran Crusader vs Brimaz? Crusader dodges Abrupt Decay and loves equipment, whereas Brimaz dodges Bolt, loves Jitte (like Avenger) and helps a lot against Pyromancer strategies (and to a lesser extent Mentor strategies) by spitting out 1/1s. I've been pretty happy with Crusader in my green splash, but am wondering if I should run Brimaz instead now that we have more tokens in the meta. Which do you run when you have room for it, and why?
    I've long been a proponent of going Brimaz over Crusader. You forgot to note the Karakas interaction which makes it a much better creature in a non-RW build (others are correct, RW should go Mirran for tutotrability and a ton of humans makes it more appealing for Caverns). That alone makes it a much better threat against Miracles by a big margin (outside of the times they draw their Karakas, which we can deal with anyway). Mirran dodges Abrupt, but dies to bolt. Brimaz dodges bolt, but dies to Abrupt, BUT is protect-able by Karakas so it dodges a lot more stuff. On an empty board, and outside of equipment, Brimaz deals more damage over turns than Mirran does (3+1, 3+2, 3+3 vs 4). The only matchup where Mirran is clearly better is BUG, but even in that match Brimaz ain't too bad.

  16. #4916
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by iatee View Post
    I think both priest and spirit have proven to be pretty mediocre. even if I were playing the mono-white version I think I would play none - more ethersworn canonists are almost always better than spirit or priest, even against the decks spirit and priest are supposed to wreck. priest does barely anything against the best cheat-stuff-into-play deck and spirit does nothing against the best draw spell.

    brimaz def doesn't have a place in the red splash lists as crusader is a tutorable finisher.
    ^^ +1
    Quote Originally Posted by nedleeds View Post
    Dat 1/1 with built in pump. Watch out Griselbrand here comes lizard mid range.
    Quote Originally Posted by Von View Post
    Is this a troll or are gobbos really dtb?

  17. #4917

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Alright green splash enthusiast, I am going to be running the Richmond Premier IQ this weekend and I have decided to sleeve up the Teeg (unable to get recruiters this time around). Please flood me with your decklist ideas and match-up nuances. I will try and provide a tourny report on monday. time to get first this time..... second sucks.

  18. #4918
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    @Sarterus great article, but Batterskull is actually the newest addition to the Stoneforge package. We used to run Jitte and SoFI+SoLS. Enevoldsen and I were championing the inclusion of Batterskull here a few years back AFAIK.

    Also, I think this is a playstyle choice but I don't dig the singletons in your list at the end of the article. In a deck without search and sift, I feel you'll too often draw the wrong card at the wrong time. I keep railing against decks chock full of 1-ofs and 2-ofs though, seemingly to deaf ears. So I probably have it wrong, but that's my 2c.

    Historical note: I went fact-checking myself, and there were other early supporters of Batterskull too, but a lot of skeptics. One benefit of adding Batterskull was getting a boltproof beater outside of Jotun Grunt, allowing us to free up 1-2 slots (3 maindeck Grunts were the norm at that time). Thomas undervalued SoFI and only ran colorless equipment (Jitte+Batterskull), which seemed like an odd choice both then and now. However, he was one of the first to drop the Tutor package from the side.
    Most people blindly suggest new cards for decks. True contributors also suggest what to remove. It's not about what's good, but rather what's better than the current selections.

  19. #4919
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    So I haven't had much success playing my usual choice of decks and decided to play D & T last night in the daily if you watch the video you can see it was the right choice for the event.

    http://www.twitch.tv/romariovidal/v/8368996

  20. #4920

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    @c2232 I've been playing DnT for a few years now, and about a month ago I started testing the G splash in the current DTT/Miracles meta. Here is what I've been killing people with:

    Creatures: 26
    4 Mother
    4 Thalia
    4 Stoneforge
    3 Revoker
    2 Teeg
    2 Pridemage
    3 Serra Avenger
    4 Wisp

    Spells: 11
    4 Vial
    4 STP
    1 Jitte
    1 SoFI
    1 Batterskull

    Lands: 23
    4 Port
    4 Waste
    3 Karakas
    4 W Fetch
    4 Savannah
    4 Plains

    SB: 15
    2 Rest in Peace
    2 Wilt-Leaf Liege
    1 Choke
    1 Sylvan Library
    1 Teeg
    1 Pridemage
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Sword of War and Peace
    1 Path to Exile
    1 CoP: Red
    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 E Tutor
    1 Canonist

    Matchup Changes:

    Miracles: Much better
    Between the addition of 2 Teeg and 2 Pridemage in the main, and a Teeg, Pridemage, Choke, Library, and SoWaP post board, the matchup gets much better. Having hard answers to their miracles while having 7 highly disruptable creatures you can protect with Karakas makes the matchup feel much better. Moreover, having Pridemage to blow up CB or vialing one in to blow up a top to draw a card is a beating. On top of that, the SoWaP helps a ton against the Mentor builds, making your clock huge and their creatures unable to block. Finally, Sylvan Library and Choke can actually win the game on their own more often than not.

    Elves: Better
    Having Teeg to stop both GSZ and NO means that Jitte can often actually go to work without them getting their 1-2 Rec Sages. While the matchup is still rough, it gives a huge advantage as opposed to the Mono White version.

    Storm: Much Better
    Having Pridemage to blow up Dread of Night and any Petals/LEDs they throw down pre-emptively is huge. Teeg stops their win conditions as well as wished/SB'ed massacres. Choke is big too, and the rest of the deck still has a ton of hate for the deck. Teeg just makes the matchup much better.

    Sultai Control/Shardless: Better
    The matchup stays the same with the exception of a couple parts: pridemage and teeg as x/2s make you much more resilient to Golgari Charm, and shutting off FoW/DTT is huge. On top of that, being able to grind hard with Library and taxing their ADs with Choke makes for a tough time. Pridemage is phenomenal mostly post board when they bring in hate like Dread of Night (or more likely Null rod). Being able to answer these cards while simultaneously pressure them is huge while they durdle around.

    Omni: Better
    Having access the the same green hate cards pulls some weight in this matchup: Teeg shuts off DTT and FoW, Pridemage forces them to go off exactly the turn they play Show and Tell, Choke... chokes their mana. The matchup certainly gets better, though not in any big percentage.

    Stoneblade variants: Much Better
    Qasali Pridemage providing permanent answers to equipment is huge, since we all know that a naked 3/1 TNN is easily raced. Once again, bringing in Choke/Library are incredibly helpful for when the game goes long, and SoWaP blanks all their removal.

    Jund: Better
    Having Pridemage as a x/2 that makes attackers bigger and provides answers to their potential Jitte/Library/Null Rod/Dread has felt important every time I've played the matchup. While the matchup is still in their favor it has certainly gotten better.

    Delver Variants: Slightly Worse
    This matchup is really the only one where you take some percentage points. Having a rougher manabase makes their wastes relevant occasionally, but with Thalia, some fliers, and creatures with bigger butts, the matchup is still certainly in our favor.

    A point on the sideboard 2 WLL. I was testing out Sigarda as my anti-attrition card, but ultimately found that 5 mana was too rough. Also, WLL pumping Teeg and Pridemage to 4/4s is nothing to sneeze at.

    As a final point: if you haven't tried the G splash, I would try it out. The meta has never been better for it, and I'm confident enough in the list to bring it to the Washington DC SCG open in a couple weeks from Texas.

    *The matchup analysis is admittedly quick. I'm just trying to get the important information across. If you have any SB questions, just let me know.

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