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Thread: [Deck] Death and Taxes

  1. #10621

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Skyclave is OP !
    And Ragavan does nothing to us, in fact, we can totaly ignore him : we have Karakas to bounce him, and he can't exile and play nothing but STP...

  2. #10622

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Hi all, been a while cuz... 2020...

    Brewing Yorion DnT and UW Humans, alongside kind of enjoying Standstill again.

    I have to say, I love some of the new cards:
    Solitude is an S-tier card.
    Sanctifier en-Vec is an A-tier card because pro-R/B is fantastic because it stonewalls Monkey, ignores all the red (very important right now) and black (not especially relevant right now) removal, it's a bear, but RiP for R/B is actually super strong against Reanimator and Dredge.
    Kaldra Compleat, if you can get it in, is an absolute monster of a card. Probably A-tier just because you will almost never hard cast it.
    Esper Sentinel is some lovely tax and/or draw (it is better in humans and I don't think it fits in a 60 card list of DnT). Prolly B-tier in DnT, S-tier in Humans.
    Skyclave Apparition is also obviously super nice, IMO S-tier.

    DnT Yorion:
    Creatures 38
    4 Flickerwisp
    4 Mother of Runes
    4 Recruiter of the Guard
    4 Stoneforge Mystic
    4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    4 Esper Sentinel
    4 Skyclave Apparition
    3 Solitude
    3 Spirit of the Labyrinth
    1 Sanctifier en-Vec
    1 Phyrexian Revoker
    1 Sanctum Prelate
    1 Charming Prince

    Instants 4
    4 Swords to Plowshares

    Artifacts 8
    4 Aether Vial
    1 Batterskull
    1 Kaldra Compleat
    1 Sword of Fire and Ice
    1 Umezawa's Jitte

    Lands 30
    2 Silent Cleansing
    4 Karakas
    16 Plains
    4 Rishadan Port
    4 Wasteland

    Sideboard
    1 Yorion, Sky Nomad
    1 Containment Priest
    2 Council's Judgment
    2 Deafening Silence
    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    2 Mindbreak Trap
    1 Peacekeeper
    2 Rest in Peace
    3 Surgical Extraction

    You could tinker with this, especially the SB, but I'm excited by it. It might be land-light, drop a Sanctifier and an Esper Sentinel main, add 2 plains.

    UW Humans I have been working, which is pretty DnT-ish. It's best feature is the density of CMC1 and 2. You almost next take Vial off of 2, you have 16 1 and 2 drops, 4 CMC 3 and Solitude.
    Creatures 35
    4 Champion of the Parish
    4 Esper Sentinel
    4 Mother of Runes
    4 Meddling Mage
    2 Sanctifier en-Vec
    2 Charming Prince
    4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    4 Thalia's Lieutenant
    2 Recruiter of the Guard
    1 Sanctum Prelate
    1 Skyclave Apparition
    3 Solitude

    Lands 21
    5 Plains
    2 Tundra
    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Cavern of Souls
    2 Karakas
    1 Silent Clearing
    3 Wasteland

    Artifacts 4
    4 Aether Vial

    Sideboard
    2 Mindbreak Trap
    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 Containment Priest
    2 Ethersworn Canonist
    2 Palace Jailer
    2 Skyclave Apparition
    1 Sanctifier en-Vec
    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Orzhov Pontiff
    Last edited by redtwister; 07-24-2021 at 03:55 PM.

  3. #10623
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    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by redtwister View Post
    Hi all, been a while cuz... 2020...

    Brewing Yorion DnT and UW Humans, alongside kind of enjoying Standstill again.

    I have to say, I love some of the new cards:
    Solitude is an S-tier card.
    Sanctifier en-Vec is an A-tier card because pro-R/B is fantastic because it stonewalls Monkey, ignores all the red (very important right now) and black (not especially relevant right now) removal, it's a bear, but RiP for R/B is actually super strong against Reanimator and Dredge.
    Kaldra Compleat, if you can get it in, is an absolute monster of a card. Probably A-tier just because you will almost never hard cast it.
    Esper Sentinel is some lovely tax and/or draw (it is better in humans and I don't think it fits in a 60 card list of DnT). Prolly B-tier in DnT, S-tier in Humans.
    Skyclave Apparition is also obviously super nice, IMO S-tier.

    DnT Yorion:
    Creatures 38
    4 Flickerwisp
    4 Mother of Runes
    4 Recruiter of the Guard
    4 Stoneforge Mystic
    4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    4 Esper Sentinel
    4 Skyclave Apparition
    3 Solitude
    3 Spirit of the Labyrinth
    1 Sanctifier en-Vec
    1 Phyrexian Revoker
    1 Sanctum Prelate
    1 Charming Prince

    Instants 4
    4 Swords to Plowshares

    Artifacts 8
    4 Aether Vial
    1 Batterskull
    1 Kaldra Compleat
    1 Sword of Fire and Ice
    1 Umezawa's Jitte

    Lands 30
    2 Silent Cleansing
    4 Karakas
    16 Plains
    4 Rishadan Port
    4 Wasteland

    Sideboard
    1 Yorion, Sky Nomad
    1 Containment Priest
    2 Council's Judgment
    2 Deafening Silence
    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    2 Mindbreak Trap
    1 Peacekeeper
    2 Rest in Peace
    3 Surgical Extraction
    Looks pretty solid to me. Is the jury still out on Yorion vs "Normal" D&T? I like the extra long-game juice the Noodle can give us, but finding good "filler" to round the list out is pretty tough. With this list I almost want to cut some Sentinels and add Givers, or maybe Archon of Emeria despite the nonbo with Recruiter.
    "Don't mess with me, lady. I've been drinking with skeletons."

    I write articles about Legacy Death and Taxes. Check them out.

  4. #10624

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    I've had a net decked build of this together for about a year now. I'm not a super experienced D&T player but I have a decent grasp on how it works and matchups. Mostly I have it together to test my brews against with my play buddy. Recently I've wanted to update it and have grown interested in mastering it. So the question that I have for you D&T masters is: Why is Flagstones of Trokair in so many builds? Is it for a sideboarded Cataclysm or something of that nature?

    Kaldra is insane, but has anyone tested Esper Sentinel yet? I ran two main deck today and was feeling like they were great! It feels like the deck needs more one drops for tempo. Most D&T decks only run 4x Vial and 4x Mom for first turn "must counter" / "must remove" spells. 2x Esper Sentinel seems to fill that gap and bring it's first turn "must counter" / "must remove" spells up to 10.
    "WaaaauuugghhhaaaauuugghhhaauuugghhhaaauuugghhhW" -Chewbacca

  5. #10625
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    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    I've had a net decked build of this together for about a year now. I'm not a super experienced D&T player but I have a decent grasp on how it works and matchups. Mostly I have it together to test my brews against with my play buddy. Recently I've wanted to update it and have grown interested in mastering it. So the question that I have for you D&T masters is: Why is Flagstones of Trokair in so many builds? Is it for a sideboarded Cataclysm or something of that nature?

    Kaldra is insane, but has anyone tested Esper Sentinel yet? I ran two main deck today and was feeling like they were great! It feels like the deck needs more one drops for tempo. Most D&T decks only run 4x Vial and 4x Mom for first turn "must counter" / "must remove" spells. 2x Esper Sentinel seems to fill that gap and bring it's first turn "must counter" / "must remove" spells up to 10.
    Flagstones is 100% "free" value when you play Cataclysm. It's also decent against the mirror if they decide to bring it in against you.

    Sentinel is just ok in my experience. The main issue is that it's not truly oppressive (like, say, Spirit of the Labyrinth), nor can it make up for it by being great in combat (e.g. Thalia). It's not a terrible card, but the deck doesn't really have the slots to dedicate to cards that are "not terrible," if that makes sense.

    Of course, if you're playing a Yorion build you have plenty of slots for Sentinel to fit, like redtwister's list above.
    "Don't mess with me, lady. I've been drinking with skeletons."

    I write articles about Legacy Death and Taxes. Check them out.

  6. #10626
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    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    I've never actually tried a Yorion build (and I have NO idea what the current meta looks like, to pile on on top of that de facto disqualification for giving advice ;)), but with a maindeck with that many cards, I would try to widen the toolbox approach the playset of Recruiter of the Guard enables. Cards (imho and off the top of my MtG-rusty head) to consider:


    Epochrasite
    Leonin Arbiter
    Aven Mindcensor
    Ethersworn Canonist
    Palace Jailer


    I have kind of a hard time accepting four pieces of equipment in the main - do Kaldra Compleat and Batterskull really have a place in there together?

  7. #10627

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbed Blightning View Post
    Flagstones is 100% "free" value when you play Cataclysm. It's also decent against the mirror if they decide to bring it in against you.

    Sentinel is just ok in my experience. The main issue is that it's not truly oppressive (like, say, Spirit of the Labyrinth), nor can it make up for it by being great in combat (e.g. Thalia). It's not a terrible card, but the deck doesn't really have the slots to dedicate to cards that are "not terrible," if that makes sense.

    Of course, if you're playing a Yorion build you have plenty of slots for Sentinel to fit, like redtwister's list above.
    Good to know! Thank you! I'm going to keep rockin Esper Sentinel for the time being though. He's not great late game but he fits the curve and helps those opening hands. Especially against combo.

    The Yorion build is very tempting. My only gripe is consistency, especially when you really need Vial opening hand.
    "WaaaauuugghhhaaaauuugghhhaauuugghhhaaauuugghhhW" -Chewbacca

  8. #10628
    GrimGrin and Glissa are in a boat...

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    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by colo View Post

    I have kind of a hard time accepting four pieces of equipment in the main - do Kaldra Compleat and Batterskull really have a place in there together?
    that's a very good question and I was asking myself the same thing... Kaldra seems way better when the opponent can't do anything to the germ. But after playing with battskull for years it has allways been very good to be able to rebuy it and put it back into play with mystic. My opinion would be to play batterskull and not switch to kaldra and not play two to not clog your hand with expensive equipements when you don't draw stoneforge. But I didn't play enough this year (and the results seems to shoaw that playing 4 artifacts id ok).

    Any other opinions on this?

  9. #10629
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    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Tylert View Post
    that's a very good question and I was asking myself the same thing... Kaldra seems way better when the opponent can't do anything to the germ. But after playing with battskull for years it has allways been very good to be able to rebuy it and put it back into play with mystic. My opinion would be to play batterskull and not switch to kaldra and not play two to not clog your hand with expensive equipements when you don't draw stoneforge. But I didn't play enough this year (and the results seems to shoaw that playing 4 artifacts id ok).

    Any other opinions on this?
    I kinda like Kaldra in the board. Real question is what matches you're bringing it in against. Some decks like Goblins and Burn obviously have a hard time against it, but we're already pretty favored there. There's the Delver family of decks, and Ninjas too; however our current equips are already fire in those MUs.
    Beyond those, you have a ton of decks out there running StP as their main removal (an obvious nonbo for Kaldra) and of course combo. Kaldra is good for racing against the latter, but depending on the matchup I'll cut SFM and equipment anyway, soo... \_(ツ)_/

    I think for Yorion builds, Kaldra is a safe addition. You have the slots and you'll probably want an extra equipment just to increase your chances of drawing into another. Plus Yorion can always reset Kaldra, too. For vanilla 60s, though, only results can actually tell. All I know for certain is that Kaldra doesn't supersede Skull, Jitte or SoFI. They are a mix of protection, removal and stabilizers this deck needs to round out the game-plan.
    "Don't mess with me, lady. I've been drinking with skeletons."

    I write articles about Legacy Death and Taxes. Check them out.

  10. #10630

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbed Blightning View Post
    All I know for certain is that Kaldra doesn't supersede Skull, Jitte or SoFI. They are a mix of protection, removal and stabilizers this deck needs to round out the game-plan.
    huh. i've seen a lot of people cut SoFi for Kaldra in 40-card lists. although im not completely sold on it myself esp. since i havent really been able to do much playtesting
    Last edited by Sella; 08-23-2021 at 08:07 PM.

  11. #10631

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    @Barbed Blightning
    Yeah, I dropped the Esper Sentinels and am running basically what the top Yorion lists run right now, though I love my Sanctifier en-Vec main and I'm built a bit for my locals. Pro-Red and graveyard hate baked into a creature is very good.

    I still think the Sentinel is great in Humans, but it has a completely different set of possibilities, as light denial, draw, as a pump and possibly getting pumped. In DnT, it was a bit lackluster.

    Running the Yorion officially at my locals tonight.

    Cheers

  12. #10632
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    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by redtwister View Post
    @Barbed Blightning
    Yeah, I dropped the Esper Sentinels and am running basically what the top Yorion lists run right now, though I love my Sanctifier en-Vec main and I'm built a bit for my locals. Pro-Red and graveyard hate baked into a creature is very good.

    I still think the Sentinel is great in Humans, but it has a completely different set of possibilities, as light denial, draw, as a pump and possibly getting pumped. In DnT, it was a bit lackluster.

    Running the Yorion officially at my locals tonight.

    Cheers
    This surprises me. I figured it would be a turn 1 bomb against anything with blue. Do you feel that you tested it enough?
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  13. #10633
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    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    This surprises me. I figured it would be a turn 1 bomb against anything with blue. Do you feel that you tested it enough?
    Of course it is, but do you need more game against blue, especially with Yorion? I don't think so. Plus, slots are pretty tight.

    Also, play Kaldra. It is just that good.

  14. #10634
    GrimGrin and Glissa are in a boat...

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    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    gonna (finally) play in a live legacy tournament since... i don't remember when was my last one :)
    I'm not going to play yorion DT, but would like some info on what should be the flexible slots in the classic one.
    what should i be playing? considering the decks to beat probably?

  15. #10635

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Just managed my first MTGO trophy. Played 60 card DnT with Anointed Peacekeeper. That guy is boss.

    2-0 vs jstancikiii on Show and Tell
    2-0 vs Wiltron92 on Madness
    2-0 vs Samu_27 on U/B Arakocra Sneak
    2-0 vs EronRelentless on Elves
    2-1 vs rikimaru6 on 5C Changelings
    Last edited by AmuletOfQuoz; 09-19-2022 at 04:28 PM.

  16. #10636
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    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by AmuletOfQuoz View Post
    Just managed my first MTGO trophy. Played 60 card DnT with Anointed Peacekeeper. That guy is boss.
    A 60 card list! I'd like to see that. How many Anointed Peacekeepers did you run?
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  17. #10637

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    2 Flagstones of Trokair
    2 Eiganjo, Seat of the Empire
    3 Karakas
    9 Plains
    4 Wasteland
    4 Rishadan Port

    4 Mother of Runes
    4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    4 Stoneforge Mystic
    2 Spirit of the Labyrinth
    1 Archivist of Oghma
    4 Flickerwisp
    2 Anointed Peacekeeper
    1 Skyclave Apparition
    2 Solitude

    4 Aether Vial
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    1 Lion Sash
    1 Batterskull
    1 Kaldra Compleat

    Sideboard:
    2 Cataclysm
    1 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Pithing Needle
    2 Rest in Peace
    1 Kataki, War's Wage
    2 Deafening Silence
    1 Sanctum Prelate
    2 Mindbreak Trap
    2 Solitude

  18. #10638

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    In what situations did you feel peacekeeper excelled? I was interested in it for wb humans as the toughness 3 is an upside rather than a downside.

  19. #10639

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    In what situations did you feel peacekeeper excelled? I was interested in it for wb humans as the toughness 3 is an upside rather than a downside.
    I've named Thassa's Oracle, Show and Tell, Elvish Reclaimer, Lightning Bolt, Minsc and Boo, Urza's Saga, Aether Vial, etc. It's never dead. It lets you name the thing that you loose to, not necessarily what's in their hand or on the battlefield. Sometimes just slowing them down for a turn or two is enough. 3/3 is relevant. Vigilance is relevant. Also, it's "as" it enters the battlefield, not "when." It just happens. Nothing to respond to if it hits play. It's great to vial it in during their draw step.

  20. #10640

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    So basically the flexibility of being a weak revoker or a weak meddling mage + better body is worth the extra cost?

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