[Deck] Death and Taxes

[Bahra]

3 Flickerwisp

3 Flickerwisp needs to be 4 Flickerwisps. And Spirit of the Labyrinth is only really good against Grixis which is a good match up anyways. I would play 0 in the 75.

[Gtlstarbursts]

3 Flickerwisp needs to be 4 Flickerwisps. And Spirit of the Labyrinth is only really good against Grixis which is a good match up anyways. I would play 0 in the 75.

Thanks Marc! I've been wondering about spirit. I never get enough of vialing it in in response to brainstorms lol. So cut the other one for a mangara perhaps?

[redtwister]

Props to Bahra on the SCG mention here and the Red Death and Taxes (or Boros Death and Taxes or Imperial Taxes or whatever it becomes) onslaught on Modo.

[hill_giant]

Just played a daily event with


3x Magus of the Moon
2x Imperial Recruiter
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4x Mother of Runes
4x Flickerwisp
3x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Stoneforge Mystic
2x Serra Avenger

1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Batterskull
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
4x Æther vial
4x Swords to Plowshares

4x Wasteland
4x Rishadan Port
3x Karakas
4x Windswept Heath
2x Flooded Strand
2x Plateau
4x Plains

Sideboard:
3x Sudden Demise
2x Ethersworn Canonist
2x Rest in Peace
2x Council's Judgement
2x Cataclysm
2x Enlightened Tutor
1x Manriki-Gusari
1x Circle of Protection: Red

I didn't drop a game. Only one game out of the 8 was even close. I was running extremely hot, but the deck certainly seems real. I played UWR stoneblade, UR delver with tundra for sb cards, miracles, and esper stoneblade. There were a few games that had the potential to be close, but then magus just ended the game. I only drew recruiter once, and he fetched a sfm that got snap FoWed, and it's hard to complain about a card that eats a force in the midgame and leaves behind value. I just threw the deck together right before the event started and forgot to put a cavern in. I'm not a huge fan of cavern in classic D&T, but I bet it gets a lot better when you add some more humans to the deck and it also becomes fixing.

[Barook]

I wonder how important the scalability of Sudden Demise compares to the instant speed of Electrickery? While Sudden Demise shouldn't hit your white creatures, Elektrickery can hit everything (even stuff like an opposing Mom on T1 if you feel confident about fetching up a Plateau that early), even different-colored creatures at the same time, but fails vs everything with 2+ toughness.

@ hill_giant: Did you instantly slam down those Magi to win the game or do you think it would have been fine fetching them with a Recruiter first and thus playing them a turn later?

Edit: Played a few games with the new configuration suggested earlier by me (3 Recruiters, only 1 Magus, 1 Mangara, Avenger replaced by a Skyfisher).

For those who are testing the red splash, I encourage you to test Skyfisher as well. My first impression so far was pretty positive and I found myself several times fetching for it, since you get an extra activation out of your CiP guys and a decent, flying body. Even with just a Recruiter, it's plain value because you can still fetch another utility creature on the next turn.

[Barbed Blightning]

I wonder how important the scalability of Sudden Demise compares to the instant speed of Electrickery? While Sudden Demise shouldn't hit your white creatures, Elektrickery can hit everything (even stuff like an opposing Mom on T1 if you feel confident about fetching up a Plateau that early), even different-colored creatures at the same time, but fails vs everything with 2+ toughness.

@ hill_giant: Did you instantly slam down those Magi to win the game or do you think it would have been fine fetching them with a Recruiter first and thus playing them a turn later?

Edit: Played a few games with the new configuration suggested earlier by me (3 Recruiters, only 1 Magus, 1 Mangara, Avenger replaced by a Skyfisher).

For those who are testing the red splash, I encourage you to test Skyfisher as well. My first impression so far was pretty positive and I found myself several times fetching for it, since you get an extra activation out of your CiP guys and a decent, flying body. Even with just a Recruiter, it's plain value because you can still fetch another utility creature on the next turn.

The scalability is definitely better, I think. While Elves hates to see either cards, Demise also gives you a nice wipe against the mirror, Merfolk, Goblins, Delver variants and anything with Pyromancer or Monastery Mentor (though in this final case I can see elecktrickery doing work as well). Plus, we can use SoFI to selectively save a white of red dude on our side; the same is true with Mom.

Skyfisher seems really clutch, like a cheaper Stonecloaker. Some things to consider: 1) has a big butt, so we can use her to save a weenie from our Demise if need be while she tanks it, 2) we can use her off a vial to save Mangara from himself, 3) cavern can name Kor, letting you push through an SFM and the Skyfisher, who can then allow you to reset it, 4) like the previous point, Skyfisher can also (like Wisp) basically cost one less if you have not had a land drop the turn you cast her.

Seems pretty flexible to me. Not powerful enough in the mono lists, but in this splash, I think it is worth it.

[hill_giant]

I am going to try electrickery, as I think it's certainly much better in the mirror, while also still being solid against elves. I only drew demise once in 2 dailies (against ur delver), and I used it to kill 2 swiftspears, so it was better than trickery there. I'm not sure how often you actually bring in demise, although it's very powerful when you do.

In the second DE I played, recruiter was outstanding. I had a turn 4 that was tick vials to 2 and 3, cast recruiter for mom, cast mom, block goyf carrying jitte, flicker recruiter to keep counters off jitte, fetch sfm and vial it out on eot for sofi (for those of you not keeping count, that's 2 cards becoming 5 cards, not to mention keeping counters off the jitte, the Bob sofi killed, or the second wisp sofi drew on the following turn). I wound up losing a round to a couple of very strong draws from miracles, but 3-1 is still respectable.

[Barook]

Played the latest DE and lost terribly, partly due to bad luck, partly due to abyssal plays (I really need to get more practice again).

It reminded me rather painfully why I normally don't run Mangara - because it's a slow PoS. I'm most likely going back to the original build with 3 Magus and 2 Recruiter when I enter another DE.

I did like the Skyfisher, though, and would continue to test it in the Avenger slot.

Edit: One thing I'd like to mention, though, is the feeling of always being low on mana. The focus on a slightly increased curved, your lands being more exposed to Wasteland and fetchland-thinning decreasing the number of lands you draw might be a bit much for our 23 land base, but maybe it's just me.

[cursecatcher]

You're starting to sell me on this red splash, Hill Giant. I just dread the prospect of getting Imperial Recruiters (I only play in paper). Please keep posting testing results, everyone trying the red version! If I get the chance to, I will as well.

The other two red cards sounds pretty great though (magus and sudden demise).

[Bahra]

I found time to play another daily (had to get up at 4 am. to play it though )

Currently 1-0 beating RUG Delver, got to Sudden Demise away a Tarmogoyf and a Nimble Mongoose #Value

Mostly Rest in Peace and Mother of Runes did work though, drawing 4 in the first game and getting 2 of them FoW'd somehow made it so that my opponent had very few resources to try and win the game with. Second game I boarded out Magus of the Moon and this time Imperial Recruiter did work, fetching up a Mirran Crusader and then dealing a few points of damage before getting caught in a Rough \\ Tumble with a Mother of Runes. Opponent had active Library since turn 2 and the game went approximately 15 turns but I was still at 13 when the game ended.

[Bahra]

I went 3-1

R1-R4:

Crushed RUG Delver
Crushed UW Stoneblade
Got Crushed by RUG Delver nut drawing me in 2 games (in the words of the streamer that beat me) and he played well too
Crushed Elves (!!) picture is after 1 Sudden Demise




Edit: Played another daily that I streamed and 3-1'd losing to some sort of Grixis landstill and beating Elves again, miracles and Grixis Delver. Lost because of bad hands and drawing 3 Æther Vials but only 1 land only to have the Æther Vials Pithing Needled.

Kor Skyfisher was pretty good this daily.

[kombatkiwi]

Great to see the deck putting up results!

I'm not as enthusiastic about recruiter's price tag but I guess replacing them with something else isn't the end of the world. In previous parts of the thread it seems like for a long time the consensus was that any splash wasn't worth it, now with a bit of agreement that it isn't so bad, is it worth considering other colours?

It's hard to find bears that are as disruptive as magus or a sweeper as cheap as sudden demise though. Something like Sin Collector / Tidehollow Sculler and Zealous Persecution / Engineered Plague probably isn't as good as the red splash but maybe some brainstorming could be considered seeing as the thread seems to have lifted the embargo on nonwhite cards.

[Barook]

Have people with the green splash tried out Knight of the Reliquary so far?

The Recruiter thing got me thinking while looking for juicy tutor targets: With 7 fetches and 4 Wastelands, we're almost as effective feeding KotR as Maverick (they run ~8 fetches). It's also a Human, so between a Cavern, 7 fetches for a single Savannah and 4 Aether Vial, we should have plenty of chance getting it into play. What worries me, though, is further destabilizing the manabase (although 1 Savannah for a basic Plains just might be okay).

Teeg and Pridemage would be both interesting options for the 75, but since both aren't Humans, it would stretch the manabase even further. Choke would also be a great sideboard option, but it's a nonbo with Magus.

It might be too greedy, but in theory, 1 Savannah and 1 KotR doesn't sound that bad. How it might play out with the Magus effects and heavy mana denial decks might be a whole different story, though.

[Julian23]

Have people with the green splash tried out Knight of the Reliquary so far?

Suddenly it feels like early 2011 all over again

[Bahra]

Have people with the green splash tried out Knight of the Reliquary so far?

I really don't think we want to go that route. I don't even think Knight of the Reliquary has much to offer this deck anyways. Sure fetching up Wasteland and Karakas is nice, but it is sooo slow. I would rather have an efficient beater or another taxing body.

[Wasteland]

IF a splash, then rly the red one... Toolbox, additional screw-plan (with mother-protection!) and massremoval in the board offers just the most... Any other splash does not bring the deck further (and i tested black for confis and green for Knights / Teegs myself...)

[razvan]

Played in a LGS weekly and went 4-0.

2-1 vs. Blue/Red Pyromancer (Lam Phan)
2-1 vs. Reanimator (Kevin)
2-0 vs. ANT (Kris)
2-1 vs. ANT (Richard)

This is what I played (more or less, hope I don't forget something)

4 Mother of Runes
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Flickerwisp
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Mangara of Corondor
2 Mirran Crusader
2 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Fiend Hunter

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Aether Vial
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sensei's Divining Top

10 Plains
3 Karakas
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
1 Horizon Canopy


SB:

2 Armageddon
2 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Rest in Peace
1 Sunlance
1 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Containment Priest
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Council's Judgment


Some thoughts:

- I wanted to try Sensei's. It was meh, I even lost a game where I thought it was an Aether Vial and kept a hand I should have mulliganed otherwise. It wasn't innovation for innovation's sake either, I really thought it would be good. It was not.

- Flickerwisp, still an amazing card. I won against Kris's ANT by hardcasting it to reset the Batterskull after he Abrupt Decayed the germ. Seriously, the card is absurd.

- 2 Mangara, 2 Spirit, 2 Mirran, Spirit won a game in response to a Brainstorm (might have won regardless). It's not overly exciting, but I don't mind 2. Mirran Crusader does what it does, it's an excellent beater, but might not be necessary. I don't own Brimaz's, and they could be Serra Avengers, I don't think it matters. Brimaz surviving Bolt is important, so maybe should get some. Mangara did nothing because I only saw it vs. Lam and he had enough removal to shoot the moon down. Might be trim-able, but the card can be amazing, and was for me in the past.

- 1 Fiend Hunter. Oooooh yea. Did nothing today except get a Lavamancer, but I like it.

Rest is pretty standard. 22 lands, but might put a 23rd in. I got flooded once, and mulled twice (or 3 times) due to no lands in opener.

SB:

- 3 Rest in Peace. Could be 2 and 1 Grafdigger's Cage.
- 2 Ethersworn Canonist. Standard
- 1 Sunlance. Might be useful if I faced Delvers and Deathrites and Bobs. I don't know.
- 1 Phyrexian Revoker. Meh. I don't think they are that useful.
- 2 Oblivion Ring. Always ran 2. Didn't show up at all.
- 2 Containment Priest. It was in my hand against Reanimator, didn't end up mattering. Might be able to cut a Rest in Peace to put more stuff in sideboard because of them. I really like these guys.
- 2 Council's Judgment. Never leave home without them.
- 2 Armageddon. I mostly wanted to show off Beta Armageddons, but I don't really see where they would be useful.


So for future, I would simply go:

MD:

-1 Mangara
-1 Top

SB:

-2 Armageddon
-1 Revoker
-1 Rest in Peace

I wouldn't mind putting in a Elspeth (4cc one) in the SB, she seems good. The rest might be more Elves or All-in Decks (Belcher, etc) hate. I don't know.

I am very happy with the place the deck is at, and I think the printing of Council's Judgment and Containment Priest (which didn't really exist when I was playing it) makes it so much better. I used to hate losing to UWR Delver (trade, then they get Nemesis), but I think Council's Judgment helps a TON.

[Bahra]

I will stream the daily 45 min. from now with the Imperial Taxes (D&T with a red splash). I am now testing out 1 Fiend Hunter in the main deck instead of the Kor Skyfisher.

Tune in at:

http://www.twitch.tv/bahra_

[BearsandSquires]

Saw bahra stream today playing a fiend hunter and no serra avengers and I actually like this a lot. Though originally wanting a flyer that could be tutored I feel like this could be really good, even with serra avenger being a usually strong card.

[hill_giant]

Finally had a game where I drew sudden demise against elves and WOW THAT CARD IS GOOD. I actually needed to 5-for-1 him twice with them to win the game, but it felt really good. Killing 2-toughness creatures was very important. Taking a match off of elves when they actually have strong draws every game feels pretty awesome (g1 he straight up killed me t2 on the play, and game 3 was still close even after my 2 demises killed 10 creatures and I had an active jitte for 4 turns).