I ran one in the SB of Imperial to deal with Elves!, and it turned out to be too slow. They consistently blew me apart the turn after it hit the field - if Sharpshooter doesn't have haste, it's not going to be good enough I'm afraid. Cunning Sparkmage is the better alternative, although it looks much weaker on paper. It also scores bonus points for having the correct creature type in mono-W.Originally Posted by tarmogoat
Peacekeeper could theoretically help you against Elves and Sneak but even then it's a Hail Mary play that allows them to still find a slow method to win.
I still believe 1 Canonist could be main deck. That's the proactive answer I'd go for. Creatures that ping or give -1/-1 come out too late. Elves also have a decent chunk of x/2s.
The obvious MD-able answer to Elves! in a tutor-heavy build with Cavern of Souls is Orzhov Pontiff. You won't find a better solution than this one.
fixed
If you get to three mana, you want this card instead of a narrow solution. The Elves deck I test against is not quite the standard build, but I have won maybe four games with THC otb and lost exactly one. Elves must remove her unless they get lots and lots of elves or they are running Progenitus. If you get her out with Mother of Runes, you are heavily advantaged because even Abrupt Decay won't save them.
Oh, no, no. I suppose this is the sort of thing that testing is for. I tested against Miracles and found myself calling "one" instead of "six". That essentially turned off StP and Terminus at the same time (because I had either dealt with Top in some way or he did not have one yet) and Brainstorm too. But then I had a hard time dealing with his two Mentors because I was myself holding StP.
Something similar happened against Grixis, except I actually lost to Abrupt Decay the one time it happened. So, you need the Banisher Priest as an option to fetch. I have been looking for 2-mana solutions such as Soul Tithe in the vein that iatee focuses on with his Paths to Exile in the board. But I do not like anything so far.
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
"Politicians are like diapers. They should be changed often and for the same reason."
"Governing is too important to be left to people as silly as politicians."
"Politicians were mostly people who'd had too little morals and ethics to stay lawyers."
So, do you mean that because he didn't have Top, Terminus was essentially turned off? Because, even cast for Miracle, Terminus is a 6 CMC. Just trying to clarify.
My experience has been that Mentor doesn't really do much of anything as long as there's a prelate on 1 on the battlefield. In fact, even though my initial expectation was that we'd use Prelate mostly as a terminus stopper, the more I test, the more I realize that jamming it on 1 is probably going to be the best play in most board states.
To second Finn, Banisher Priest is really great as a tutorable target, and THC is the nuts against Elves. I've been on both sides of that matchup, and THC was the game-breaker in every case. I lost to D&T and white Eldrazi while playing Elves at Gen Con solely due to the power of THC, and I also beat Elves there while playing D&T.
Regarding Santum Prelate in the Miracles matchup: You'll want to name what you most care about at a given moment. In the early stages of the game, naming one will likely do a considerable amount of damage to your opponent's ability to develop and create a board presence. In the later game, you may just need to shut off Terminus as an out if you are ~1 turn away from a lethal swing. Keep in mind that naming 1 also really decreases the value of Snapcaster Mage.
I'm working on getting some of my thoughts together, and I'll be writing up a sizable article on Monday or Tuesday. I'm playing something interesting in Baltimore.
as a Miracle player: welcome back Izzet Staticaster and Pyroclasm
Yes. I am saying that. I really want Prelate on one. If I have it on another number I find myself wanting to reset it.
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
"Politicians are like diapers. They should be changed often and for the same reason."
"Governing is too important to be left to people as silly as politicians."
"Politicians were mostly people who'd had too little morals and ethics to stay lawyers."
I have just one problem with Prelate on 1. StP costs 1, and they can still cast creatures. This seems like nonbo city. Any suggestions for how to "play around" this unfortunate situation?
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If it is shutting down our ~4 Swords to Plowshares and Vials should we not already have cast them, but it is shutting down bolts, swords, brainstorms, ponders, tops, etc, etc, etc from our opponent we are likely still favored there. One way to mitigate shutting down our own swords is through creatures like banisher priest or fiend hunter as some additional removal as well as using Flickerwisps at the right moments to act as temporary removal.
I played against miracles tonight with three recruiters and two prelates. Prelate on 1 was always better than 6. If I set her on 6 she'd eat a swords and then I'd get hit with Terminus afterwards.
I'll write a better report tomorrow about my matchups, but I must say I was in love with both new cards, especially recruiter.
While I do not entirely agree, I guess it's not like you can't just hold the Swords to Plowshares until they deal with the Prelate or lose, or you block with it. Dropping one for a banisher priest a terrible idea? I'm out of room otherwise...
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I'm still busy with moving to my new apartment, but even without testing, I'm not suprised that Prelate @1 would be better in most cases vs Miracles than just blocking Terminus. They have way more 1 CC spells, including several ones that set up Terminus. Recruiter into Flickerwisp should also weaken Terminus as a whole, too. Besides, wouldn't an active Prelate hinder Mentor alot in terms of token production? No StPs, no cantrips, no double Top shenanigans.
As for builds running 4 Caverns: Isn't the white mana for SFM and StP more problematic now? That's my main concern with running that many Caverns.
I find that I have a variety of tools to limit the power of Terminus now. The Miracles matchup has definitely swung considerably in our favor.
I had four Caverns for about a day. Could not hardcast a Flickerwisp for shit. I'm at two now, and likely to stay there.As for builds running 4 Caverns: Isn't the white mana for SFM and StP more problematic now? That's my main concern with running that many Caverns.
At some point soon, we really need to gather ideas for sb options designed to counter hate and for the mirror. I have Veteran Armorer and Leonin Relic-Warder, but I am certain that is not enough. In fact, Armorer dies to Pyroclasm and Massacre. As soon as he does, everything does as well. I'm not sure the card does anything at all except against Golgari Charm and Dread of Night. And I guarantee our opponents will know this.
Unfortunately, anything with a bigger butt is unfetchable. We need something with counters or X or something or else we are back to Honor of the Pure.
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
"Politicians are like diapers. They should be changed often and for the same reason."
"Governing is too important to be left to people as silly as politicians."
"Politicians were mostly people who'd had too little morals and ethics to stay lawyers."
"Hate" is a pretty broad term. First we need to determine what kind of cards might show up to really hurt us now, then find appropriate counters.
Thalia's Lieutenant? Not the greatest, but we could flicker it a couple times for the rest of the team, then if we continue to play dudes, he gets bigger.
I played a 3 round FNM last night and this is what I was running:
9 Plains
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
3 Cavern of Souls
3 Karakas
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Aether Vial
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Mother of Runes
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Flickerwisp
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Recruiter of the Guard
2 Sanctum Prelate
2 Mirran Crusader
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
Round 1 - Miracles with Mentor and Snapcaster Mage
This is where I found Prelate on 6 was useless. He hit it with Swords and then went nuts with double Top and Mentor. 4/4 Monks are hard to deal with. However, the monks were the only time THC was any good as it didn't produce chump blockers as well as normal.
In the sideboarded game he brought in two SFM, Batterskull, and Jitte. I Revokered his SFM without drawing my own, thankfully, and applied some pressure with SOFI equipped creatures until he Terminused, then dropped Jace. Jace bounced one creature, then I dropped Recruiter which he did not bounce. More pressure applied and a bunch of Jitte counters on my side kept his Monks in check until he was forced to chump with Mentor, and I won the next turn. SOFI was MVP in this matchup. Prelate is good on 1 but make sure you can protect her. Recruiter and drawing off SOFI also helped me sandbag creatures in my hand that I could cast after a Terminus, which kept the pressure going
Round 2 - BUG Loam - Dark Depths combo with Jace and Liliana for alternate wincon
Game 1 I applied tons of pressure and got him down to 4, but I got greedy and fetched Mirran Crusader with a Recruiter instead of Flickerwisp when I had a vial on 3. Died to Marit Lage next turn. Pretty sure I had a Prelate on 2 in this game to shut off Life from the Loam and Abrupt Decay, which is why I lasted so long, but he still was able to use Crop Rotation to set up the lands combo.
Game 2 I kept a 1 lander and was punished for it. Turn 1 Vial was Abrupt Decayed, and the only other land that I would have seen over the next 8-10 turns was fatesealed to the bottom with Jace. Bad luck is really all it was, although I typically have a hard time post-board with him anyways because he brings in Golgari Charm, Toxic Deluge, and Darkblast that he can dredge back again and again.
Round 3 - Mono Red Sneak Attack
Game 1 he wins the die roll, drops Chalice on 1. My turn 1 I drop Cavern on Humans into Mom. Turn 2 he drops Sneak Attack. Turn 2 I drop Revoker on Sneak attack, and just apply pressure from there while he can't really do anything.
Game 2 he gets a slow start, I once again Revoker on Sneak attack. Turn 3 he drops Lotus Petal, I top deck a Revoker and get his Petal too. The only threat he managed to drop was Batterskull, but I sent the germ to plowshares immediately. I drop Prelate on 5 to stop Through the Breach (which he ended up having in his hand - yes!) then beat down with tiny white creatures and equipment.
I will say I'm convinced Recruiter is absolutely amazing, and I actually didn't find myself missing Serra Avenger at all. I'm still not sure what I want for the "toolbox" suite of creatures. Mirran Crusader is amazing most of the time, Prelate was great when she stuck, and I actually didn't find myself wanting THC very often at all. I did dodge Delver and Eldrazi matchups, I think she'd be much better in those.
3 Caverns was absolutely fine, and even if I did drawl multiples I always have the option of naming Kor or Elemental in a pinch. As a result of this I dropped to 3 Flickerwisps, as it becomes the hardest creature to hardcast but I also have effectively 6 of them with Recruiter. I was happy with that choice. I don't think I'd want 4 Caverns, though.
I have a tournament next weekend and all I'm contemplating now is do I want 4 Recruiters or do I want to sub the second Crusader for another toolbox creature?
Sideboard is also a work in progress; the only sideboard card I ever drew last night was Pithing Needle so I don't know what's really going to be good.
Pretty sure that if a crusade critter is gonna end up being playable, it's this one. But I doubt it.
Yeah as far as effects like Pyroclasm, kozilek's return and massacre are concerned it is likely the best option to be able to get your creatures over 2 toughness. At the very least it can build up to a large creature with further humans played
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