[Article] Unlocking Legacy - Lessons Learned

[Bardo]

Does the Internet hate me, or have other people not been able to access SCG for the past two days?

[Nihil Credo]

Has been down for the last ~10 hours at least.

[Versus]

At least 24 for me.

[Lego]

Yeah, 24 hours or so for me, too.

[Cavius The Great]

Does the Internet hate me, or have other people not been able to access SCG for the past two days?

It's been down for two days for me as well.

[hi-val]

Craig says it will be down for today, as well.

Since TMD is on the same server, that'll be down too.

There's so many articles to write, but a once-a-month format for myself means that sometimes neat ideas get shelved. I've really wanted to do a Year In Review for Legacy. Maybe that'll be my January one, who knows. We've still got Lorwyn to integrate into Legacy, we've got new possible DCI unbannings, plus lots of other neat stuff going on.

[Bovinious]

That's right December first is coming up, another opportunity for WotC to neglect Legacy and not clean up the banned list...or maybe theyll actually clean it up finally.

[C.P.]

That's right December first is coming up, another opportunity for WotC to neglect Legacy and not clean up the banned list...or maybe theyll actually clean it up finally.

It's very wise of them not to do anything this time, because Legacy in Worlds is coming up. I don't see much to clean up anyway, and even if there is one, it's not worth it when there is a huge constructed fun coming.

Personally, I felt wizards has been good to us Legacy players since GP.

[Bovinious]

I dont mean to hijack this into a B&R thread, but I guess they probably wont make changes because theres is a big event coming up and I bet they dont want to ruin it like they did GP: Flash, but at some point they have to clean it up and they cant keep justifying not cleaning it up by saying theres an event in the near future because (hopefully)very often there will be an event soon. I mean some OBVIOUS things need to come off like Land Tax, and possibly Earthcraft, Hermit Druid, and Metalworker. To quote the hilarity over in the source card thread, apparently "Tormod's Crypt and Force of Will arnt enough to stop a dominating spell like Hermit Druid"...

[C.P.]

I dont mean to hijack this into a B&R thread, but I guess they probably wont make changes because theres is a big event coming up and I bet they dont want to ruin it like they did GP: Flash, but at some point they have to clean it up and they cant keep justifying not cleaning it up by saying theres an event in the near future because (hopefully)very often there will be an event soon. I mean some OBVIOUS things need to come off like Land Tax, and possibly Earthcraft, Hermit Druid, and Metalworker. To quote the hilarity over in the source card thread, apparently "Tormod's Crypt and Force of Will arnt enough to stop a dominating spell like Hermit Druid"...

I agree with you somewhat, but I think the word obvious is not right. All the cards there had fair reason to be there, including Land Tax. Sure, a good shakeup is a good thing, but how good?

[hi-val]

B&R discussions are healthy because they show that people are interested in a format, but they're murderously bad as articles. There are people who will listen to reasoned arguments, and there are people with agendas to push. Guess who shout louder in online B&R debates : )

[Machinus]

B/R articles have done a lot of good in Vintage and Legacy. A lot players like them. A lot of players also like to complain about them because they don't understand how the decisions are made.

I'll be talking more about the B/R after worlds when the list is open for discussion again.

[Fons]

More feedback should be sent to outpost1@starcitygames.com

I've already asked them to stop publishing articles written by Anusien. Time and time again, he doesn't test whatever he's writing about and tells us so. Unlocking Legacy has been pretty weak for quite some time.

That's harsh but somewhat true I don't think he should stop getting his articles published but maybe put a little more effort into it. I personally would love to see a budget deck article (for all us poor people out there). I know that alot of people won't like this idea but seriously not everyone has the money to spend for the top decks.

[etrigan]

B&R discussions are bad because 99% of what is said is conjecture. Everyone just guesses about what will and wont be good, without any decklists and any games played.

In fact, this is the only good B&R article I can think of, because Machinus specifically refutes the point Aaron Forsythe made in justifying keeping Land Tax banned.

[TeenieBopper]

Brain on fire..

Must... lock.. thread...

Ok. Look. I'm only going to say this once. If you have any questions or rebuttals, keep them to yourself.

Oath Sucks. Ok? It's awful. Green is an awful color. Building a control deck around it doesn't make it any better. *see "Druids, Oath of" and "Psychatog" and "Junk, PT" (ok, so junk really isn't a control deck.. well, kinda) Come to think of it, building a combo deck around that color doesn't work too well either. *see "Aluren."

Know why suicide oath was winning in extended back two seasons ago? Extended does not have the following cards: Swords to plowshares, Force of Will. Believe it or not, those cards are powerful enough to be a constant presence in any metagame with the card pool they are legal in. In fact, you may play against those very cards in the next tournament you play in. Or you may even play them yourself. I need a /sarcasm tag really badly.

If you want to play the game where I name a combo, then you name one that stops it, then I name another one.. make a different thread. However, this point counterpoint thing is fucking pointless. Benzo would be moderately playable with entomb. In fact, I would probably play it. I recieve unhealthy pleasure from reanimating fatties. However, if you check my whole existance-of-cards-that-would-slightly-affect-the-extended-metagame-if-they-were-legal arguement above, you will notice that sometimes a big ass fatty isn't that hard to deal with. Also, Tormod's crypt isn't avalable to play in extended. You know, those things you have because you didn't want to lose to Dragon (yet you did anyhow, didn't you?)

Please stop drawing conjecture from extended. It's different cardpools. Ok? We're still more like type 1 than extended. Another thing: The bannings of replenish, skullclamp, etc just because they were banned in extended. Not too bringht. They missed survival of the goddamn fittest. No worries though, it's not like anyone played those cards in old 1.5 anyhow.

This brings us full circle to Oath of Druids, and the fact that green sucks. I know an aggro deck can't handle a turn 2 fatty. Know what? That aggro deck is probably playing green. They weren't going to win anyhow.

Mind twist is a very swingy card. In the absence of good acceleration, it's not that great turn 1. However, turn 4, it empties your opponent's hand. That's pretty frickin' swingy. Of course, this depends on your matchup. I know you aren't playing mind twist in suicide. Why? Because I know you aren't playing suicide. You are a better magic player than that. So I know you didn't just compare mind twist to hymn to tourach. While hymn to tourach is actually more cost effective than a mind twist, Mind Twist happens to be infinately splashable for such a devistating effect.

Metalworker is fine. Metalworker in the current card pool is at just about the right power level for the format. After all, goblin lacky is still legal. Guess what, it's also an artifact and a creature.

I refuse to comment on the very specualtion that a "broken replenish" deck exists. I believe that to be an oxymoron. If by boken you mean "slow and disruptable" then.. nevermind.

In conclusion,

- Discussing B/R changes just make you look dumb. It makes you look like you don't know what you are talking about. I might have a thousand or more mistakes in what I have written above. I most likely do not.

- I blame people who discuss B/R changes like they are smarter than R&D for the change and seperation of the lists. You may be smarter than R&D. That's ok, so is my toaster. Just don't do it. Ok? Don't.

- Green sucks.

Honestly, who didn't see this coming?

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

Mike, you probably don't want to quote a rant that talks about Oath before Forbidden Orchard was printed.

[TeenieBopper]

If people actually read that rant and actually believe it's about Oath of Druids or Green in general, then they're pretty dumb.

[Machinus]

FakeSpam's post there gets a few things wrong regarding the B/R, but this line has always stuck with me:

You may be smarter than R&D. That's ok, so is my toaster.

[APriestOfGix]

[DeathwingZERO]

Welcome to The Source. Sorry it's about 581 posts too late :p