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Thread: Leyline Deck Wins

  1. #21

    Re: Leyline Deck Wins

    Wow can't believe this deck was a thing in 2007, and got attention just now in 2017 because of MTGGoldfish.
    Legacy
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  2. #22
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    Re: Leyline Deck Wins

    i think it's always been a deck the long-term legacy players have been aware of....it's just never been good. i just necro'd the thread b/c it might be a place to talk about since goldfish necro'd the deck :P
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  3. #23
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    Re: Leyline Deck Wins

    Tusk Up

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  6. #26

    Re: Leyline Deck Wins

    As mentioned by someone else (forgot who) Abundant Harvest might be v good here just as a hybrid 1-mana sylvan scrying / cantrip

    So for example rather than

    4 Crop Rotation
    4 Mana Confluence
    4 Serra's Sanctum
    1 Tree of Tales

    You have

    4 Abundant Harvest
    4 Land Grant
    4 Serras Sanctum
    1 Forest/Savannah

    You could also play Crop Rotation in addition to this, potentially.
    It's bad if they counter your land grant but it's also bad if they counter your crop rotation so I assume that approximately cancels out.
    I suppose the drawback is that if you turn 1 crop rotation you get the mana from sanctum immediately whereas if you turn 1 abundant harvest you have to wait until the next turn to make your second land drop, which could be significantly worse in a bunch of spots.

    Edit: but a possible upside is that it can allow you to reliably play spells with more varied manacosts e.g. Sterling Grove maybe because you don't have to sac off the green source to find Sanctum

  7. #27
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    Re: Leyline Deck Wins

    Not getting Sanctum until 1 turn later is a huge difference in this deck. It's awkward if they have time to Terminus or Toxic Deluge you.

    The Land Grant line also commits this deck to having only 1 non-Sanctum mana source, which removes the grindier lines where you can play out 2 fair lands and cast In Search of Greatness into Starfield of Nyx or just play out fair enchantments like Suppression Field, Deafening Silence or Rest in Peace without needing Sanctum in play.

    But we don't need a land to cast Abundant Harvest! Elvish Spirit Guide, Lotus Petal, Chancellor of the Tangle and Turntimber Symbiosis also make green on turn 1. The only reason this deck didn't play fast mana before was the need to sacrifice something to Crop Rotation. Now nonland mana sources are viable. That would guarantee Harvest plays turn 1 Sanctum. Fast mana also provides lines this deck never had before: better Daze protection, extra mana to cast Opalescence (sometimes you're 1 short), extra mana to power out turn 1 hate pieces, or sideboard tools like Veil of Summer or Force of Vigor. Extra lands could never do that before. They were so slow for a deck that wants to go off turn 1, but a necessary evil for Crop Rotation.

    I like this direction a lot.


    //Lands: 4
    4 Serra's Sanctum

    //Other mana: 8
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Elvish Spirit Guide

    //Tutors: 10
    4 Abundant Harvest
    4 Enlightened Tutor
    2 Idyllic Tutor

    //Leylines: 28
    4 Leyline of the Void
    4 Leyline of Sanctity
    4 Leyline of Anticipation
    4 Leyline of Combustion
    4 Leyline of Punishment
    4 Leyline of Vitality
    4 Leyline of the Meek

    //Other Enchantments: 5
    4 Opalescence
    1 Banishing Light

    //Artifact: 5
    4 Serum Powder
    1 Helm of Obedience

    //Sideboard: 15
    4 Chancellor of the Annex
    3 Carpet of Flowers
    2 Banishing Light
    2 Deafening Silence
    1 Rest in Peace
    1 Suppression Field
    1 Chrome Mox
    1 Emeria's Call


    Fast mana + Leyline of Anticipation even enables Turn 0 Suppression Field, which should blow out most Legacy decks if unanswered.
    Maybe -4 Leyline + 4 Suppression Field
    Last edited by FTW; 05-20-2021 at 11:03 AM.

  8. #28

    Re: Leyline Deck Wins

    Yeah I like that idea a lot
    I just hope that it's consistent enough (Serum Powder?)
    Would Chancellor of the Annex be better maindeck than Suppression Field, if you are so all in like this

  9. #29
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    Re: Leyline Deck Wins

    Tough to find room for everything. The deck needs a critical mass of Leylines. Serum Powder would have to replace Suppression Field, which would give a better turn 1 goldfish but less interaction.

    I find the deck needs some enchantments at 2-3 cc because even when you have Sanctum you don't always have 4 Leylines, especially after a mulligan. A 2-3 cmc enchantment helps bridge the gap to help Sanctum ramp to 4. The fast mana does that too, even when you have Sanctum, which is better than the extra lands ramping to 4 only turns later.

    For a 2-3 cmc enchantment anything could do there. I like Suppression Field, especially if you can play it on T1, because it just shuts down so many mana bases and opening hands. Arguably you can hardcast Serum Powder to ramp, so maybe that's just better.

    Channex might be better than Grid in the SB. I just wanted something to stop Force. Grid costs a lot of mana though.

  10. #30

    Re: Leyline Deck Wins

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    I find the deck needs some enchantments at 2-3 cc because even when you have Sanctum you don't always have 4 Leylines, especially after a mulligan. A 2-3 cmc enchantment helps bridge the gap to help Sanctum ramp to 4. The fast mana does that too, even when you have Sanctum, which is better than the extra lands ramping to 4 only turns later.

    For a 2-3 cmc enchantment anything could do there. I like Suppression Field, especially if you can play it on T1, because it just shuts down so many mana bases and opening hands. Arguably you can hardcast Serum Powder to ramp, so maybe that's just better.
    Hmm good point

    Like you say hardcast serum powder works

    Or you could even put Rune of Sustenance on your own leyline if you think the disruption from suppression field isn't going to matter much and the cantrip gives some extra consistency, there might be a few options (you can also play more Idyllic Tutor instead and fewer cheap enchantments, and Idyllic Tutor for the cheap enchantments if you are stuck on 3 mana

    Maybe ill try goldfishing your list later and see how it feels

  11. #31
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    Re: Leyline Deck Wins

    This looks spicy as hell, I love it. I'm not sure how vital it would be, or the complete cost of doing so, but I would think 2x Chrome Mox maindeck would be great. That gives you 14 initial mana sources to do your thing. The card lost to Chrome Mox is a very real cost though, considering you may need to exile a Leyline to make it work. If you have a spare Suppression Field its fine, or just using it as mana instead of protection via Mox if you have a turn 1 combo on the play. If you end up using Chancellor instead of Suppression Field that gives you 4 more cards to imprint on Chrome Mox that don't inhibit your combo. You reveal it to protect, then exile it to Chrome Mox, and you're in business. I could be way off here, but maybe it's a situation where you play Suppression Field main/Chancellor side (or vice versa) depending on matchup. Chancellor is obviously better against Force and can slow down Daze long enough to combo out, but Suppression Field buys you at least 2 extra turns on average (just a guess, I don't know the floor/ceiling of Suppression Field or how matchup dependant it is.)

    If I had Serra's Sanctums I would be building this for sure, but the cost is a little prohibitive for a niche combo deck.
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  12. #32
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    Re: Leyline Deck Wins

    Yeah these are all good ideas worth testing. 4 Serum Powder probably needs to be in the main.

    Carpet of Flowers seems insanely good against blue decks. It's basically Sanctums 5-7, immune to Wasteland, and lets you hardcast topdecked off-color Leylines.

    I went with 0 Chrome Mox main because going down a card hurts. On average Mox reduces Serra's Sanctum by 1 mana, which defeats the purpose of having a permanent mana source instead of a 1-time source. Imprinting an off-color Leyline is also pretty bad. It could get better postboard with bringing in Chancellors.

    An ideal hand needs something like this:
    4 Leylines + way to get Opalescence + way to get Serra's Sanctum

    In my above list there are 10 ways to get Opalescence (Opal, ETutor, Idyllic Tutor) and 8 ways to get Sanctum (Sanctum, Harvest + green source)
    Fast mana, Serum Powder, or a cheap enchantment could also replace the 4th Leyline.

    But already that's 6-7 cards needed to do the thing the deck wants to do. Once you start spending 2 cards on a mana source, the hands and mulligans gets worse and lose critical mass to do the main plan.

    PS - I only have this in my gauntlet because I bought 4x Serra's Sanctum a decade ago when they were dirt cheap, a poor man's Cradle. Leylines were cheap back then too right after the M11 release. This was a $100 budget deck to build with leftover M11 jank, which is the correct price point for something so cheesy. This is fun but not worth spending $1000 on.

    Edit: The Hypergeometric calculator could help determine the optimal split of Leylines, tutors, and mana to get the most functional turn 1 hands.
    Last edited by FTW; 05-20-2021 at 10:59 AM.

  13. #33

    Re: Leyline Deck Wins

    Another brainwave I just had is play court of grace as copies 5-X of Opalesence

    Obviously not quite as devastating as attacking immediately with a bunch of leylines but it's still a pretty bonkers play on turn 1 unless your opponent has monastery swiftspear or whatever
    Edit: and you also have the g/w leyline that buffs the tokens

  14. #34

    Re: Leyline Deck Wins

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    Another brainwave I just had is play court of grace as copies 5-X of Opalesence

    Obviously not quite as devastating as attacking immediately with a bunch of leylines but it's still a pretty bonkers play on turn 1 unless your opponent has monastery swiftspear or whatever
    If you always have a sanctum perhaps you can play star field of nyx?

  15. #35

    Re: Leyline Deck Wins

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    If you always have a sanctum perhaps you can play star field of nyx?
    Yeah that's also possible but Im thinking that perhaps the threshold from 4 to 5 mana can be significant

    Like if you need 5 leylines + sanctum + payoff card compared to 4 leylines + sanctum + payoff card then it has quite a big effect on your ability to mulligan etc

  16. #36
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    Re: Leyline Deck Wins

    If you have 4 Leylines + Sanctum, the payoff card can be Idyllic Tutor (finds Opalescence) or Enlightened Tutor (finds Opalescence or Helm of Obedience).

    In testing I think there's a bigger bottleneck on mana than on payoffs. It's harder to find Sanctum or to get 4 enchantments to make Sanctum work.

    ETutor and Idyllic Tutor not only find payoffs but also help the problem of having Sanctum + only 3 Leylines (tutor for 1-3 cmc enchantment) so I think they're better than playing more payoffs. ETutor is better both for being cheaper and for putting the card on top of library immune to discard.

    Getting Sanctum wasted is a real risk. I wonder if the old card Consecrate Land is any good out of the board. It both protects Sanctum and gives +1 mana to help the mana problem.

  17. #37

    Re: Leyline Deck Wins

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    If you have 4 Leylines + Sanctum, the payoff card can be Idyllic Tutor (finds Opalescence) or Enlightened Tutor (finds Opalescence or Helm of Obedience).

    In testing I think there's a bigger bottleneck on mana than on payoffs. It's harder to find Sanctum or to get 4 enchantments to make Sanctum work.

    ETutor and Idyllic Tutor not only find payoffs but also help the problem of having Sanctum + only 3 Leylines (tutor for 1-3 cmc enchantment) so I think they're better than playing more payoffs. ETutor is better both for being cheaper and for putting the card on top of library immune to discard.

    Getting Sanctum wasted is a real risk. I wonder if the old card Consecrate Land is any good out of the board. It both protects Sanctum and gives +1 mana to help the mana problem.
    Yup you can play the tutors too
    I was just thinking that with e.g. Court you can do something on turn 1, that gives your opponent less time to play a land to have daze up or cantrip into a force etc (or wasteland your sanctum) but maybe that's less of a priority than being able to find a cheaper enchantment

  18. #38
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    Re: Leyline Deck Wins

    To beat Wasteland boarding in Consecrate Land might actually be huge tech. It protects Sanctum and boosts by +1 mana to get you from 3 to 4 mana for the payoff. Carpet of Flowers should help too. Ideally you would just cast your payoff turn 1 and not care about Wasteland, but they could have FoW or FoN and then you lose to Wasteland. On the draw they could also have Daze or Pierce.

    For a while I played Heliod, God of the Sun as an alternate win condition. This is sneaky because it's an enchantment but Leyline of Lifeforce makes it uncounterable! No Force or Daze! Then Sanctum taps for 1 cat token per turn (boosted by Leyline of Vitality and Leyline of the Meek). The cats are enchantments so eventually you get 2 per turn. With 2 white Leylines Heliod can attack too! Opalescence makes a noncreature Heliod into a 4/4 indestructible.

    Court of Grace could do the same making 4/4 Angels, but it's counterable. And what happens if you lose the Monarch? Especially on the draw vs a turn 1 creature. Meanwhile this deck has a lot of dead topdecks so drawing more cards isn't that good.
    Last edited by FTW; 06-02-2021 at 06:22 PM.

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