[Deck] Eva Green - B/g suicide

[nitewolf9]

how does this deck fair against chalice aggro? (dragon/fairie stompies)...

All your threats are either as big or bigger than theirs, and you run snuff out. Kindof sucks to invest mana into a threat, into a piece of equipment, then into equipping, only to have that creature snuff'd out in response for ZERO mana to the equip when you had dropped a threat or a disruption spell on that same earlier turn.

[Arsenal]

All your threats are either as big or bigger than theirs, and you run snuff out. Kindof sucks to invest mana into a threat, into a piece of equipment, then into equipping, only to have that creature snuff'd out in response for ZERO mana to the equip when you had dropped a threat or a disruption spell on that same earlier turn.

I think he meant how this deck operates when Stompy variants gets their Chalice/Trinisphere online before you've had a chance to seriously wreck house. Not so much the creature/threat aspect, but the disruption aspect. Chalice for 2 looks to shut down a lot of this deck.

[nitewolf9]

I think he meant how this deck operates when Stompy variants gets their Chalice/Trinisphere online before you've had a chance to seriously wreck house. Not so much the creature/threat aspect, but the disruption aspect. Chalice for 2 looks to shut down a lot of this deck.

Look, if they do something like turn 1 trinisphere on the play then turn 2 arc slogger or whatever, then you are in trouble. Name a deck in the format that isn't. Chalice for 2 can be annoying but you have a lot of disruption that stops that from coming down early on the draw (ritual -> hymn/sinkhole, thoughtseize, wasteland...), and even that doesn't shut down your creature removal and tombstalker. From playing against dragon stompy I can say for sure that it is generally a favorable matchup. Trinisphere isn't even all that bad for you unless they get it REALLY early and drop a big threat before you can.

Edit: Chalice aggro decks also tend to lack a lot of consistency, and your disruption is usually even more devastating here. I always liked Anwar's analogy of fairy stompy: "They are dancing near a cliff, all you need to do is push them off".

[Slayer001]

I have just beat the hell out of a dragon stompy deck and won with 2-1

it went like this

game1:
turn 1: ritual--> hippie
he chalice for 1 with ancient tomb
turn 2: nantuko shade, attack with hippie
he plays a jitte
turn3: beat with shade for 5 and hippie
he plays a morph (gathan raiders prob)
turn 4: beat with shade and hippie, he takes all dmg
he plays anonther morph and a powder keg
turn5: I beat with hippie and shade, he double blocks shade, I snuff out one blocker and pump shade with rest of my mana and he scoops

game 2:

he killed me with a 9/9 double striking pit dragon, that was realy fast

game3:
I started with a swamp --> thougtseize choosing his trinisphere
he plays a mountain
turn2: I played a bayou and sinkhole
He plays another mountain
turn 3: I play Hippie
he plays city of traitors and ends his tun
turn 4: I beated with hippie
he plays mountain, seething song --> pit dragon and powder keg, eot I snuffed out his dragon.
turn5: I wasted his city, and beated with hippie and had enough cards in grave to play tombstalker for 2
he gets his powder ekg to 3 but it was alrdy over by then he blows up my hippie and I play a new one and he scoops. If he could resolve a trinisphere with mox and city he had in his starting hand it was alot harder for me

[rsaunder]

The question of card quality and reach has come up a few times in here already, and I feel like I ought to chip in the few tweaks I've been messing around with. The deck's manabase has proven extremely strong, and of course, with me being me, I thought I ought to try and abuse it a little. I'm pretty convinced that if one was so inclined, they could change the manabase to include 2 Volrath's Stronghold by going -1 fetch, -1[other card, seal was my pick], without much loss in consistancy hitting BB by turn 2. Now, I'm not sure at all if this is even necessary, but it's worth some thought if you've been having trouble in the late game.

/my 2 cents

[zulander]

The question of card quality and reach has come up a few times in here already, and I feel like I ought to chip in the few tweaks I've been messing around with. The deck's manabase has proven extremely strong, and of course, with me being me, I thought I ought to try and abuse it a little. I'm pretty convinced that if one was so inclined, they could change the manabase to include 2 Volrath's Stronghold by going -1 fetch, -1[other card, seal was my pick], without much loss in consistancy hitting BB by turn 2. Now, I'm not sure at all if this is even necessary, but it's worth some thought if you've been having trouble in the late game.

/my 2 cents

2 Stronghold + 4 wasteland = bad times for turn 2 hymn/sinkhole. The deck's mana base is fine, but if you're afraid of running out of threats then -1 waste +1 stronghold. I wouldn't recommend it though.

[JDunkin00]

Trinisphere is a bigger threat than you think. Stopping early tempo by not playing multiple spells and neutering Dark Rit all together. Tombstalker is not the answer cause you cann't fill your grave without playing something. Going 1st will help alot. Chalice two also is quite painful for 1st or 2nd turn. Taco is right on with grip>seal all day long.

[zulander]

If you face a lot of 3sphere/chalice decks then I'd definately recomend taking out the chokes or E.Plagues from the side and put in a set of grips.

[URABAHN]

Trinisphere is a bigger threat than you think. Stopping early tempo by not playing multiple spells and neutering Dark Rit all together. Tombstalker is not the answer cause you cann't fill your grave without playing something. Going 1st will help alot. Chalice two also is quite painful for 1st or 2nd turn. Taco is right on with grip>seal all day long.

I guess VA oughta test Eva Green vs. Dragon Stompy this Friday during our weekly meet. Zork, you still have Dragon Stompy built? If not, someone bring Dragon Stompy.

[C.P.]

The question of card quality and reach has come up a few times in here already, and I feel like I ought to chip in the few tweaks I've been messing around with. The deck's manabase has proven extremely strong, and of course, with me being me, I thought I ought to try and abuse it a little. I'm pretty convinced that if one was so inclined, they could change the manabase to include 2 Volrath's Stronghold by going -1 fetch, -1[other card, seal was my pick], without much loss in consistancy hitting BB by turn 2. Now, I'm not sure at all if this is even necessary, but it's worth some thought if you've been having trouble in the late game.

/my 2 cents

Stronghold does not like delve.

Also, I ran a singleton in a white version of Red Death once, and it was not worth the trouble. I doubt if it is worth it in this version, either.


I was testing the deck with Scroll for 2 days, and I found it to be pretty decent. I see that the Seal is an excellent card, but Scroll also is a strong choice and should not be dismissed easily. I found Scrolls to be better in a janky meta.

[nitewolf9]

I guess VA oughta test Eva Green vs. Dragon Stompy this Friday during our weekly meet. Zork, you still have Dragon Stompy built? If not, someone bring Dragon Stompy.

I don't know what would be gained from this, I don't think the deck needs any alterations to accommodate this particular matchup. I'd rather test against something like survival, friggorid, or TES. Eva Green vs. Dragon Stompy seems to come down to the die roll and who has the most busted draws, only Eva Green has snuff out as a bomb.

[URABAHN]

I don't know what would be gained from this, I don't think the deck needs any alterations to accommodate this particular matchup. I'd rather test against something like survival, friggorid, or TES. Eva Green vs. Dragon Stompy seems to come down to the die roll and who has the most busted draws, only Eva Green has snuff out as a bomb.

People seem to want to want to speculate about Trinisphere, Chalice, and Arc-Slogger vs. Eva Green. Why not give them what they want? Besides, isn't Dragon Stompy a (AT)(DT)(B)(W)(C)(LMNOP) or whatever?

[Obfuscate Freely]

I tested Eva Green against Parcher's Dragon Stompy this past weekend after the Syracuse tournament. What I found is that Dragon Stompy's disruption package isn't well-tuned for fighting a deck like Eva Green, with a curve higher than one, a solid manabase with lots of basics, and multiple ways to answer both large creatures and equipment spells. Also, as nitewolf said, Snuff Out is an all-star in the matchup. I'd say we played at least ten games, and I know that Eva Green was solidly ahead, although we didn't keep an exact count.

Seal of Promordeum is fantastic against any Chalice aggro deck, and is almost certainly better than Krosan Grip, because it's cheaper to play. I don't think you guys are valuing that difference in mana cost highly enough.

@rsaunder: As part of a group of players here in NoVa who have been playing black-based decks since before the format-split, I would never drop below 17 black sources in a deck with Hymn and Sinkhole in it. We have all found that number to be the minimum, unless you want to spend all day mulliganing hands without two black sources in them.

[Nihil Credo]

2 Stronghold + 4 wasteland = bad times for turn 2 hymn/sinkhole. The deck's mana base is fine, but if you're afraid of running out of threats then -1 waste +1 stronghold. I wouldn't recommend it though.

That got me thinking, even if you don't want the Strongholds it shouldn't hurt to add 1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth to the deck's mana base. Casting (and pumping) Nantuko Shade, Hymn, Specter, or Stalker with a Wasteland should save more games than you lose by getting Urborg randomly hated on.

[Deep6er]

I don't know about that. Given black's recent surge in popularity, helping them hit ON-colored things with your help seems too dangerous than the alternative. I could be wrong, but it seems like it would be better to just have Basic Swamps.

[nitewolf9]

Yeah, Urborg seems both unnecessary and additionally opens you up to wasteland more. However, if you are running a one of in suicide black it's probably not going to come up very much. Which makes me question why you'd want to put it in there in the first place. This deck is "consistency through 4-ofs", and I feel that anything in the deck that isn't either search-able through fetches or at least a 3 of seems like splitting hairs and may cause more harm than good.

[Nihil Credo]

I'm just saying, have you ever had those "Swamp, Wasteland, Awesome BB cards" draws? Urborg makes them a keeper instead of a mulligan.

At least, that was my experience with Red Death. I'm assuming Eva Green shouldn't perform very differently.

[nitewolf9]

I'm just saying, have you ever had those "Swamp, Wasteland, Awesome BB cards" draws? Urborg makes them a keeper instead of a mulligan.

At least, that was my experience with Red Death. I'm assuming Eva Green shouldn't perform very differently.

How is that a keeper? There is no urborg there. Top decking a swamp is just as good, if not better (since they can waste the borg and screw you), than topdecking urborg with that hand.

Edit: Ah, sorry, you meant urborg instead of the swamp. Still, what happens when they wasteland urborg?

[AnwarA101]

I'm just saying, have you ever had those "Swamp, Wasteland, Awesome BB cards" draws? Urborg makes them a keeper instead of a mulligan.

At least, that was my experience with Red Death. I'm assuming Eva Green shouldn't perform very differently.

You should have mulliganed those hands. There are games lost because you only drew 1 black source and games where you lose because you drew too many lands. You can't just throw more lands into the deck without realizing how much you will dilute your game plan.

If Urborg is so good, why not play 3 or 4? Why just a 1 of?

[Slayer001]

I would not recommend Urborg anymore, alot of decks are running black now for thoughtseize/duress/confidant and this will make it easier for them to cast them. But they will fetch underground sea/ scrubland so it wouldn't matter to much maybe. But as a 1 off it doesn't come up to much and what to cut for it, fetch not at all and wastelands are to good in this meta. If you cut basics you will have a more wasteland vunerable deck.

about the seal vs grip: the grip is better against countertop where seal is just nothing, the just tap top in response to put it on top of library. where grip just kills all. vs chalice aggro the seal becomes better if he lies down before chalice at 2 or 3sphere. else he can't be cast or will cost 3 also. I find grip alot better now, as I have played both of them in alot of matchups.