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Thread: [Deck] Skybus (UWB Moat Control)

  1. #1
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    [Deck] Skybus (UWB Moat Control)

    New List:

    UWb
    // Lands
    4 [b] Underground Sea
    4 [ON] Flooded Strand
    4 [b] Tundra
    4 [ON] Polluted Delta
    2 [CHK] Plains (1)
    2 [10E] Island (4)
    1 [LRW] Swamp (2)

    // Spells
    4 [FNM] Brainstorm
    4 [LRW] Ponder
    4 [AL] Force of Will
    4 [LG] Moat
    3 [u] Swords to Plowshares
    3 [CS] Counterbalance
    3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
    3 [JU] Cunning Wish
    3 [AP] Vindicate
    2 [FNM] Counterspell
    2 [7E] Wrath of God
    2 [MOR] Bitterblossom
    2 [LRW] Hoofprints of the Stag

    // Sideboard
    SB: 1 [IN] Dismantling Blow
    SB: 3 [FD] Vedalken Shackles
    SB: 1 [TSP] Return to Dust
    SB: 1 [b] Blue Elemental Blast
    SB: 1 [FUT] Slaughter Pact
    SB: 3 [PLC] Extirpate
    SB: 1 [DS] Pulse of the Fields
    SB: 4 [PS] Meddling Mage


    UW
    // Lands
    5 [RAV] Island (2)
    4 [ON] Flooded Strand
    4 [b] Tundra
    2 [LRW] Plains (4)
    3 [ON] Windswept Heath
    3 [ON] Polluted Delta

    // Creatures
    2 [SC] Eternal Dragon

    // Spells
    4 [LRW] Hoofprints of the Stag
    4 [FNM] Swords to Plowshares
    4 [LRW] Ponder
    4 [IA] Brainstorm
    4 [AL] Force of Will
    4 [JU] Cunning Wish
    3 [LG] Moat
    3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
    3 [CS] Counterbalance
    2 [IA] Counterspell
    2 [REW] Wrath of God

    // Sideboard
    SB: 1 [LG] Moat
    SB: 1 [CS] Counterbalance
    SB: 1 [TSP] Trickbind
    SB: 1 [IN] Dismantling Blow
    SB: 1 [10E] Condemn
    SB: 1 [WL] Argivian Find
    SB: 3 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
    SB: 2 [FD] Vedalken Shackles
    SB: 2 [PS] Meddling Mage
    SB: 1 [BOK] Quash
    SB: 1 [DS] Pulse of the Fields


    So, I guess I've sort of been on a mission to force every Legacy player to buy 4 Moats. I figure it's sort of my duty to punish people with actual tourneys in their area. Anyway, I stumbled onto an Aggro build for my CaND entry, but in my musings I tested Hoofprints of the Stag. The card did not work there, but it did get me thinking. Then I saw Bitterblossom and thought Hmmmmm. Here's what I came up with:


    // Lands
    4 [ON] Flooded Strand
    4 [ON] Polluted Delta
    4 [B] Tundra
    4 [B] Underground Sea
    2 [10E] Island (4)
    1 [CHK] Swamp (4)
    1 [CHK] Plains (1)

    // Spells
    4 [FNM] Counterspell
    4 [FNM] Brainstorm
    4 [AL] Force of Will
    4 [LRW] Ponder
    4 [LG] Moat
    4 [U] Swords to Plowshares
    4 [AP] Vindicate
    3 [7E] Wrath of God
    2 [SC] Stifle (for Deed and Waste)
    1 [DIS] Spell Snare

    // Win Cons
    1 [OD] Haunting Echoes
    3 [LRW] Hoofprints of the Stag
    2 [MOR] Bitterblossom

    // Sideboard
    SB: 4 [PS] Meddling Mage
    SB: 4 [UL] Engineered Plague
    SB: 4 [GP] Leyline of the Void
    SB: 3 [PLC] Extirpate


    I'm not the worlds best control deck designer (or player really) but the deck has been nuts so far. Gargangel Stompy taught me that a lot of decks can't handle Moat, so pairing it with counter magic seems natural. The only slot I've been unhappy with is Spell Snare. I'm thinking about trying out Pulse of the Fields to help me stall for Moat and deal with Bitterblossom.

    The board is untested, and I've only done a small amount of play testing, but it's shaping up pretty well. Check out these numbers (all preboard so far):

    Moat Control vs Gobs
    on the draw
    1-0 Moat
    2-0 Moat + deck
    2-1 SGC
    2-2 No Moat
    2-3 No Moat

    on the play
    3-3 Moat
    4-3 Bitterblossom + StPx4
    4-4 No Moat
    5-4 Moat + StP on SCG
    6-4 Bitterblossom early + control


    vs W Thresh w/ CB
    on the draw
    1-0 Moat + Hoof
    2-0 Moat + Echoes
    3-0 Moat + Blossom
    4-0 Moat + Blossom
    5-0 Moat + Hoof

    on the play
    6-0 did I mention that they can't seem to win


    vs Landstill (Taco's 4c. These damn games take forever)
    on the draw
    1-0 Decked
    2-0 Moat + Blossom
    3-0 Decked


    vs Survival (Di's build)
    on the draw
    0-1 Survival > Moat
    1-1 Hoof x 2
    1-2 Therapyx2
    2-2 Moat sticks and Echoes SotF

    on the play



    I'll be back with more as the testing rolls in.


    Oh, and Skybus is the greatest airline ever. Google that shit. 10 dollar flights out of Columbus to crappy cities with the following rules:

    ĚNo real in-flight entertainment--Skybus Suggests you bring a book.
    ĚThe first two bags are 5 bucks apiece. After that, it's $50 a bag.
    ĚNo phone number, just a website.

    Clearly they deserve a kick ass deck.
    Last edited by Phantom; 04-07-2008 at 01:17 AM.
    I've never seen him so upset....or ever before.

  2. #2
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    Re: [Deck] Skybus (UWB Moat Control)

    it looks good really, except that I don't get the use of Wrath of God and Ponder in the deck. WoG should be replaced with smother/edict/shackles/oblivion ring/darkblast (in order to beat gobs). And ponder with impulse/stifle/spell snare. The fact that ponder draws and that drawing is good with hoofprint is not a good enough argument to play it to my opinion.

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    Re: [Deck] Skybus (UWB Moat Control)

    It seems your aggro matchup basically revolves around Moat. Since you're UWB already, I think you should seriously try out one to three copies of Clutch of the Undercity for more consistent access to your bomb. They also fetch Wrath and allow you to get some silver bullets like Decree of Justice (although your deck may be a bit mana-short for that last one).
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    Re: [Deck] Skybus (UWB Moat Control)

    Hmm, I like the idea, could use some tweaking though, im at school now so ill build it and test it later, the main things I would work with are Spell Snare and Ponder would come out, and I would probably board Stifle, as its useful, but not a necessity in my meta, put in more control, and I'll mess with the manabase a bit, see if I can fit in a tarmagoyf

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    Re: [Deck] Skybus (UWB Moat Control)

    Quote Originally Posted by thehunter820 View Post
    Hmm, I like the idea, could use some tweaking though, im at school now so ill build it and test it later, the main things I would work with are Spell Snare and Ponder would come out, and I would probably board Stifle, as its useful, but not a necessity in my meta, put in more control, and I'll mess with the manabase a bit, see if I can fit in a tarmagoyf
    Tarmogoyf in a Moat deck?

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    Re: [Deck] Skybus (UWB Moat Control)

    Yes Tarmagoyf isnt necessarily and optium chioce, but I think tarmagoyf works well in any deck if you can fit him in, I mean a turn 2 possible 5/6 isnt bad in my opinion, so if you can fit him in then he's a fairly decent choice, like i said ill work with it, not saying its a final choice.

  7. #7
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    Re: [Deck] Skybus (UWB Moat Control)

    Lol, I appreciate any help given, but I can tell you with a certainty that 'Goyf shouldn't be within 5 miles of this deck. It doesn't run green, it doesn't let ground creatures attack, and it sweeps the board of all creatures occasionally. Trust me.

    This is also why I don't really run any creatures as win conditions for the simple fact that creatures are subject to creature removal (and my Wraths). I tooled around with Meloku and Angel (and even Decree) and others but decided to run enchantments that produce creature tokens so targeted AND mass removal would suck against me. This also makes playing enchantment removal against me an iffy proposal as there are a ton of targets.

    Note that this is also why I run Stifle. Deed is one of the biggest threats this deck faces.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maveric78f View Post
    it looks good really, except that I don't get the use of Wrath of God and Ponder in the deck. WoG should be replaced with smother/edict/shackles/oblivion ring/darkblast (in order to beat gobs). And ponder with impulse/stifle/spell snare. The fact that ponder draws and that drawing is good with hoofprint is not a good enough argument to play it to my opinion.
    I'm not sure why I would replace Wrath. it's one of the strongest control cards in the game, and has been since its printing. it's also a nice plan b to moat as it allows us to win games where we can't keep a Moat down. I'm certainly not replacing it with crappy, narrow targeted removal like Edict or Smother. I tried Shackles here and this is NOT the deck for it. it usually just stares at the opponents creatures and thinks "I wish one of them had flying...". I've kept Oblivion ring in mind since it's so strong in Gargangel Stompy, but the card is just worse than Vindicate and opens us up to more Deed hate. I'll always keep it in mind though. Darkblast is just a sub par sideboard card unless you are using the dredge to your favor (which i am not).

    I can't believe so many people want to yank Ponder. This card is bananas. The deck really likes its filtering pieces and finding Moats quickly. It also only runs 20 land, which is lowish for a deck that wants to ramp up to 4+ (6 is nice for Moat + Counter mana). So basically if you're going to cut Ponder for a non cantrip, you would have to probably add two land which just about negates the purpose of cutting Ponder. And that's not even mentioning that it has solid synergy with Hoofprints.


    Edit: I'm considering Cunning Wish but have never really used the card.
    I've never seen him so upset....or ever before.

  8. #8
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    Re: [Deck] Skybus (UWB Moat Control)

    Enlightened tutor in the Snare Spot?
    She said, "You're broken."
    "So is your face." replied the Tarmogoyf.

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    Re: [Deck] Skybus (UWB Moat Control)

    I personally would run Sensei's Divining Top over Ponder. It has more synergy with Hoofprints of the Stag and is recuring filtration. Just a thought.
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    Re: [Deck] Skybus (UWB Moat Control)

    Quote Originally Posted by raharu View Post
    I personally would run Sensei's Divining Top over Ponder. It has more synergy with Hoofprints of the Stag and is recuring filtration. Just a thought.
    I did not propose top because the deck wanted a blue card in that slot.

  11. #11
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    Re: [Deck] Skybus (UWB Moat Control)

    Quote Originally Posted by C.P. View Post
    Enlightened tutor in the Snare Spot?
    Nah. E tutor as a one of kinda sucks. In fact, I pretty much subscribe to the theory that cantrips > tutors in non combo Legacy decks. Tutors often force you to run inconsistent decks and are often card disadvantage. I'm not really looking for either. I'd rather dig for four ofs with Ponder and BS since they can dig for land, sorceries, etc.

    If I'm going to run silver bullets, it will be in the sideboard.

    @ SDT: I think it's a tad overrated (in blue decks st least) without CB. It doesn't pitch to force. It makes one land starting hands crap. It is dead in multiples, etc. I think there was a reason no one ran it in blue decks until CB hit. I need to keep my blue count up.

    I'm about to go get some testing done with:
    -1 Echoes
    -1 Spell Snare
    -1 Hoofprints

    +3 Cunning Wish

    I need help with the Wishboard though. I know this much:

    2 Extirpate
    Slaughter Pact
    Return to dust
    Hydroblast
    Fact or Fiction
    Pulse of the Fields
    Trickbind (might make Stifle unnecessary)


    I like to test Wish boards as big as possible and pair them down as I keep track of what I wish for. I would like a win con in there like Echoes. Feel free to throw out suggestions.
    I've never seen him so upset....or ever before.

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    Re: [Deck] Skybus (UWB Moat Control)

    About my earlier postings, and I tested out the deck against a few different things witha few different variations, Tarmagoyf is a good choice, like I said not the best but, it offers a good early game threat, and a viable win-con if moat is destroyed.

  13. #13

    Re: [Deck] Skybus (UWB Moat Control)

    Hoofsprint of the stag + Brainstorm >>>>>>>> Ponder/Sensei's etc.

  14. #14
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    Re: [Deck] Skybus (UWB Moat Control)

    Quote Originally Posted by Poron View Post
    Hoofsprint of the stag + Brainstorm >>>>>>>> Ponder/Sensei's etc.
    Ummm, what? I already run 4 Brainstorm...
    I've never seen him so upset....or ever before.

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    Re: [Deck] Skybus (UWB Moat Control)

    For one of the spots up for grabs, you could throw in a single Replenish. It would be a topdeck win vs discard, and if facing heavy countermagic the gy will have what you need to win.

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    Re: [Deck] Skybus (UWB Moat Control)

    With Hoofprint, it's good to be flooded with mana which your deck try to avoid by playing 8 cantrips. And top+top+hoofprint = 1 elemental for 6W. It's expensive but it warrants a great long term game plan.

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    Re: [Deck] Skybus (UWB Moat Control)

    Quote Originally Posted by Maveric78f View Post
    I did not propose top because the deck wanted a blue card in that slot.
    A blue card is a way to go, although the top may be of more use than the blue card, so i'd personally test it both ways.

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    Re: [Deck] Skybus (UWB Moat Control)

    What about impulse? Seems to be a better digger.

    Is Hoofprints of the Stag actually working for you? I'd at least test DoJ, maybe exalted angel...

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    Re: [Deck] Skybus (UWB Moat Control)

    While I LOVE Moat in the meta right now, I feel that it lost a lot when Krosan Grip saw print. Game one its cool but after boarding you can't just let any non flier resolve and hold back counters for a disenchant effect. That was my favorite part about Moat and no longer can I sit back and not give a shit what my opponent is doing creature wise. I understand you run Wrath, but still back before Grip those spots could have been better used as spot removal.

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    Re: [Deck] Skybus (UWB Moat Control)

    Why would anyone run Impulse over Ponder??? They dig about as deep (I count Ponder as digging 3.5 cards deep since the 4th is blind) and while they both let you bury useless cards, Impulse forces you to bury the second best card. Oh, and it costs 2 mana! 2 mana cantrips suck. I can now never keep a one mana hand and have to worry more about daze and Spell Snare. Great. I'm not even a fan of Predict, but at least it is card advantage. Oh, and last but not least in the crappiness parade, Impulse isn't a "draw" card, so it doesn't even speed up my Hoofprints.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maveric78f View Post
    With Hoofprint, it's good to be flooded with mana which your deck try to avoid by playing 8 cantrips. And top+top+hoofprint = 1 elemental for 6W. It's expensive but it warrants a great long term game plan.
    I agree that the deck likes to have about 6 mana in play, but I disagree that running 8 cantrips prevents me from hitting my land. Cantrips simply allow you to filter out what you do need for what you don't. I mean, if you had a deck that ran 60 land and , and a deck that ran 30 landand 30 cantrips, which one would get 10 lands down quicker? It would be the same. The beauty of 20 lands and 8 cantrips as opposed to 24 and 4 or 26 and 6 is that I get to hit the exact amount of mana I want, exactly when I want it. There's a reason thresh is considered the most consistent deck in legacy. It runs 17 lands on a curve that goes up to 4, and can STILL fight through ports and wastes and all the other crap thanks to its filtering.

    I like SDT, and can see the synergy with Hoofprints, I just don't think it's right here. I mean, if i cut 4 Ponder, I'd have to add two land to make sure I had fewer one land hands (as they are near auto mulligans now) so that leaves room for only two tops. Also, that cuts me down to a dangerously low blue count for force of Will. I'm not loving any of that.


    Quote Originally Posted by conboy31 View Post
    For one of the spots up for grabs, you could throw in a single Replenish. It would be a topdeck win vs discard, and if facing heavy countermagic the gy will have what you need to win.
    I've considered it, but i think that is a slightly different deck. it would run O-Ring for one. If only it were an instant i would put it in the board in a heartbeat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Cynic87 View Post
    Is Hoofprints of the Stag actually working for you? I'd at least test DoJ, maybe exalted angel...
    Why would I want to make their creature removal relevant? Why would I want to run win conditions that die to my own Wraths? Why would I pay seven mana for something that bites it to a one casting cost instant that is run everywhere?

    Quote Originally Posted by Afro View Post
    While I LOVE Moat in the meta right now, I feel that it lost a lot when Krosan Grip saw print. Game one its cool but after boarding you can't just let any non flier resolve and hold back counters for a disenchant effect. That was my favorite part about Moat and no longer can I sit back and not give a shit what my opponent is doing creature wise. I understand you run Wrath, but still back before Grip those spots could have been better used as spot removal.
    I was worried about this too. Now I'm not as worried. The deck wins just fine without Moat (especially as they wait for Grip you can drop all your win cons) and we have a bunch of ways to deal with Grip. Board in meddling mage (I'm also considering that new blue enchantment that is sort of a MMage) and protect him, or let one resolve and Wish -> extirpate that sucker.

    I've already done some testing against Thresh post side and it hasn't effected the matchup in a significant way.

    And yes, hoofprints is working for me. It is slow though. I actually sort of prefer Bitterblossom now that Wish -> Pulse is online. it is much more risky though.

    Cunning Wish has been working pretty damn well. I'm still looking for a win con to put in the board as I have managed to deck myself a few times. Does anyone have ANY ideas???
    I've never seen him so upset....or ever before.

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