I just wanted to reiterate that Exhume sucks in the current meta. I also played the deck at Amrod's, and there were multiple times where Exhume bit me in the ass:
-Against TeenieBopper playing ATS, I countered his Seedborn Muse then proceeded to draw Exhume and couldn't bring my Titan out of the yard for fear of ATS lock.
-Against IBA with UGW Control, I Exhumed a Titan and he got back a cycled Krosan Tusker. He mised a Disenchant for my Titan and beat me with the Tusker.
Basically, Exhume sucked. I would have probably been 3-2 at least, and I'm sure Jander would have been 4-1.
Driving hours to play Magic since 1994.
Harmless question... That is why I ask.. but I see where you alla re coming from with this "Survival decks <3 teh exhum0rz" speak you speak of. At least I know people have tried it, and hated the results... now that I look back a half hour ago... I can kinda see where that would be bad... especially since this is a damn control deck playing reanimate spells, WTF? xD
Still kickin' it combo school.
It's a fine question and Exhume is great against most control decks or a heavy control field, but since the format is starting to become mostly aggro it just doesn't cut it.Originally Posted by Carlos El Salvador
Updated decklist............
//Combo 13
3 Bringer of the White Dawn
3 Goblin Welder
2 Sundering Titan
2 Mindslaver
3 Animate Dead
//Control 8
4 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
//Utility 1
1 Crucible of Worlds
//Draw/Search 14
4 Thirst for Knowledge
3 Intuition
3 Brainstorm
4 Accumulated Knowledge
//Mana 24
4 Pentad Prism
4 Underground Sea
4 Volcanic Island
4 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
1 Darksteel Citadel
1 Seat of the Synod
4 Island
The main difference you will notice is the inclusion of Accumulated Knowledge. This came to being, because Duress just wasn't cutting it in today's environment. Since I seem to be facing many aggro decks, Duress just wasn't grabbing anything worthwhile. The only good thing to grab latley has been Survival, and that means that you need Duress pretty much on turn 1.
AK has been adding to the draw department and really helps you find what you need. It really gives this deck massive amounts of card drawing and helps you find combo pieces/Fatties a lot faster.
This deck has been testing very strong. I recently split for first in a tournament with it. Here is a quick run down of the report, just to give an idea of how the deck plays out:
Round 1: Nick with Hulk Smash
Game 1: He gets a Welder off the table, then I hard cast Bringer on turn 3. Turn 4 I Intuition for Slaver/Slaver/Titan, get a Titan in hand and take the rest of his turns.
Game 2: He drops 'Tog mid game and I drop a Slaver. Out goes his hand and graveyard and I am free to do what I want. Needless to say, I win shortly after.
Round 2: Mike (Teeniebopper) w/Angel Stompy
Game1: He STP's an early Welder. I eventually draw into another one and he drops Paralax Wave, but not before I have a Titan Welded in. He Waves out both of them and I Animate another Titan, which also gets waved out, but in the process he looses all of his plains. Eventually the wave looses all it's counters and he can't handle 2 Titans and a Welder.
Game2: He drops early beats and swinds for a bit. I bait STP with a Welder and then hard cast Bringer, which out races his shadow folks after countering his removal.....
Round 3: Geoff Smelski U/w Landstill
Geoff and I have tested this matchup and he knows how to play against it very well. Usually game 1 is heavily in my favor, but that didn't prove correct this day.
Game 1: He gets an early hand on the game with a Crucible and a bunch of Standstills. I can't recover when he has a full hand of answers and goes into beat down mode.
Game 2: See game 1. I can't seem to stop his early draw and he aggros me to death.....
Round 4: Tariq w/ Finkelstill (or something)
Game 1: Hardcast turn 3 Bringer and turn 4 Intuition into Slaver.....
Game 2: The Titans and Welders swing by to say hi...
Top 4: Dirty w/ U/g Madness
Game 1: I keep a questionable 6 card hand and pay for it. He has a quick start with Mongrel/Rootwalla and Friends....I loose quickly.
Game 2: Titan rears it's ugly head and controls all of his hand. Slaver shortly after seals it.
Game 3: I play slow and set up the combo while he beats me down. At the end of his turn, I have a Bringer in play and am at 4, I Intuition to seal the game.
Top 2 Split with U/w Landstill.......
if i may ask, why only 1 crucible and 3 welders? I think you should take out the 1 and add another welder. 3 is good, but 4 gives you the consistency you're going to need. Also, maybe take out 1 island and add another seat of synod. I think that might put you where you need to be as far as fast cheap artifacts.
The deck looks awsome overall though, GREAT JOB SO FAR!
As stated earlier in the thread, Crucible is a combo with Welder and an Artifact land that allows you to keep recurring Mindslaver infinitley. The reason there is only 1 Crucible is so you can Intuition for Crucible/2 Artifact Lands with a Welder in play to set up.
The 4th Welder is something that I have considered many times, and it still comes down to not wanting to cut anything. If I could find room I will add it, but right now it comes down to cutting a Thirst, an Animate, or a Bringer, all of which I think are too integral peices to be cut.
I have a question. Would Necromancy be too expensive, in Animate's spot? I have found that being able to use it as an instant can play all sorts of havoc on several different deck types. It aslo has no drawbacks, compared to the -1/-0 of Animate. I haven't tested it though, so it wouldn't surprise me horribly if it was a bit expensive.
Going to time with winter orb for four years running.
You want to set up a recurring lock with Bringer of the White Dawn, the Bringer won't stay in play if you Necromancy it, and thus Necromancy is only good with Sundering Titan. If Necromancy didn't have the draw back of dieing then yes it would be amazing.
Well, if you play it as an instant, yeah. I was just wondering whether the option of the instant thing, plus the non attack hindering-ness of it would be worth the extra mana it costs.
Going to time with winter orb for four years running.
Necromancy's ability to be able to be cast as an instant would almost never come into play in this deck. It may be nice to use combat tricks with Titan and take out lands from coming into play and leaving play, but when all is said and done, you are still left with nothing on the board at the end of the turn. Honestly the -1/-0 drawback of Animate Dead isn't really a drawback at all.
The -1/-0 drawback from Animate Dead is very minimal compared to the drawback from Dance of the Dead. Half the time you are not Animating a Bringer. I can't even image how much of a nuisance using Dance on a Welder would be. This deck already has a tough time against certain aggro decks, cards that put your big fat creatures into play tapped are not going to help you at all.
On another note, Why is everyone looking for replacements for Animate Dead? It is the most efficient way to bring back a creature from the graveyard and still have the ability to use it for defense and offense, or use it's abilities.
Is there a Sideboard?
Team NeverWin: We just top 8 a lot.
Too lazy to post.
Sideboard varies depending on the environment. It is still pretty much the same as the one posted originally, but here is what I have been running in my current environment:
3-4 Red Elemental Blast
3 Echoing Truth
3 Engineered Explosives
3 Chalice of the Void
3 (Open - Shackles, BEB, Duress, Blood Moon, etc.....)
ForceofWill: Wtf is up with your sig?
This is spam and you have been warned. Three warnings will result in your banning.
Peter_Rotten
There is any updated list of this deck nowdays?
I wonder if just the Thirst and the Intuitons are enough to discard the artifacts or the bringer... perhaps a few more would be fine
Wow is this deck a blast from the past. Nice necro job.
Rick was this the version you came up with after the separation of the lists and your Oath version was no longer legal? I remember seeing that being played casually by you at the Big Arse 1 I believe and fell in love with it.
As for the question just asked, yes the Thirsts and Intuitions should be enough discard. The only other option if you ask me is Careful Study and that is just ass.
Dibs on updating this for the CaNGD contest.
edit:
Holy fuck
When the hell did I play Angel Stompy?Round 2: Mike (Teeniebopper) w/Angel Stompy
Game1: He STP's an early Welder. I eventually draw into another one and he drops Paralax Wave, but not before I have a Titan Welded in. He Waves out both of them and I Animate another Titan, which also gets waved out, but in the process he looses all of his plains. Eventually the wave looses all it's counters and he can't handle 2 Titans and a Welder.
Game2: He drops early beats and swinds for a bit. I bait STP with a Welder and then hard cast Bringer, which out races his shadow folks after countering his removal.....
edit 2:
Holy Fuck
When did I play ATS?
I did it, just replaced the AK for 4 Careful Study, now the "monsters" goes to graveyard anytime I want.
I'm only having some doubts when casting the Intuiton, as if you don't have any Animated Dead on your hand you gotta search for them and you probably will waste 2 of them to get the third and place it into your hand...
Been a while but I remember it. ATS I don't remember you playing that.When the hell did I play Angel Stompy?
Quote Scrumdogg @ Amrod's:
"Didn't you know that Mike Glow invented this format?? We are all just renting it."
The EPIC Syndicate - Grindermen
Team Disquailified Poster Duey Cheatem & Howe.
Hey, there, Jander. What do you think of 2x Eternal Dragon for a turn 3 4/5 Flyer (Animate Dead)... seems useful considering people think turn 3Tombstalker is good.
The reason I like Animate Dead is because of the fact that it can randomly win by stealing the opponents creatures. I guess you should consider Thoughtseize over Duress for this reason.
Anyway, I figure you deserved to be tipped off to Eternal Dragon because you built a good deck so far. I don't know if the Dragon is any miracle solution to anything, but I at least it adds redundancy.
Good luck
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