[Deck] Blatant_Ripoff.dec

[raharu]

First: all credit to Media and Edlmin (I prolly butchered the spelling on each) for most of the non-land centric ideas in the deck ie the mana denial and non-Acadmey Ruins lands are my idea, but I pretty much too the rest of the decklist from them.

Here we go:

Mana Denial/ others: 8
Wasteland x4
Pithing Needle x4

Other: 4
Crucible of Worlds x4

Resistance: 8
Sphere of Resistance x4
Thorn of Amethyst x4

Mana Fixers: 4
AEther Vial x4

Arcbound Creatures: 4
Arcbound Ravager x4

Affinity Creatures: 8
Frogmite x4
Myr Enforcer x4

Other Creatures: 4
Disciple of the Vault x4

Draw: 4
Thoughtcast x4

Lands: 16
Blinxmoth Nexus x4
Darksteel Citadel x4
Academy Ruins x2
Seat of the Synod x4
Mutavault x2
(Wasteland x4)

Interactions: Acadmey Ruins + deck: recurs threats, randomly killed artifact lands.

Crucible + Nexuses and 'Vaults: recuring threats/ blockers.

Crucible + Wasteland: a classic.

8 spheres: stops most people from playing stuff too fast.

Thoughtcast: Bob isn't safe here. Affinity can be used to pay off the sphere taxes, so itshould generally be played for the uasual amount (U).

Concerns:

Crucible as a four-of: it's too many, and they have dissynergy with the spheres, but they work well with the wasteland + spheres "lock".

No Tomb/ City acceleration: I think this is needed. Prolly City as it doesn't hurt me and can be recured later with Crucible more comfortably. The only problem I see with Tomb/ City acceleration is the fact that it takes manland slots.

I'm done. Keep in mind this is a 5 minute list. Take it, develop it, make it good :]

[GiantGrowth]

rishadan port?
sounds like mana denial to me

[raharu]

rishadan port?
sounds like mana denial to me

I thought about it in the quick draft, bu tI could't think if a slot it could take. Thoughts?

[Tog]

The affinity mana base is hard to fuck around with. The artifact land count is essential to actually playing your spells. I know some players who have qualms about taking out an artifact land for Blinkmoth Nexus in Extended. I seriously doubt your Frogmites will be able to come down faster than turn 3 and Enforcers if ever.

~Tog

[Bovinious]

How do you cast Thoughtcast, use Ruins, and cast Disciple reliably? You only have 4 blue sources and 4 Vials to do these things...

[Iranon]

If you're almost mono-silver, the coloured spells REALLY need to pull their weight. Yours don't. Thoughtcast is nice but not essential, and Disciple is questionable since you aren't pushing for the turn 3-4 win regular Affinity does. By extension, Vials and Academy Ruins would need to go as well.

With the 1cc stuff out of the way, you could run Chalice. It even synergises a little with your taxing effects. With no need for coloured mana, you could fit in 2-mana lands for more backbreaking openings. Epochrasite is yet another recursive beater... while it would be stronger with Vial still in, I think the synergy with Arcbound Ravager is enough.

***

I think you need to focus the deck more. Important question: How important is the opportunity to go all-out aggro? I assumed you are using Affinity mostly so can go disruption -> midsized beaters.

[Thomas1991]

What about ancient tomb?

Turn 1 sphere is pretty nice

[xycsoscyx]

Thoughtcast: Bob isn't safe here. Affinity can be used to pay off the sphere taxes, so itshould generally be played for the uasual amount (U).

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't cost reducers applied FIRST, then cost increasers. This means that the Affinity will make Thoughtcast cost U (potentially), but then Spheres/Thorns will increase the cost AFTER that. I may be wrong on this, but I thought that was the order of calculating the cost.

[Media314r8]

I've said it a thousand times before and I'll say it again. Beating for 5-10 turns with 2/2s and 4/4s doesn't cut it in the current metagoyf.

[zulander]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't cost reducers applied FIRST, then cost increasers. This means that the Affinity will make Thoughtcast cost U (potentially), but then Spheres/Thorns will increase the cost AFTER that. I may be wrong on this, but I thought that was the order of calculating the cost.

You are correct. First you reduce costs, then apply taxes. Just like American wages.

[Silverdragon]

Wrong. First you check anything that makes the spell have an alternative cost (Force of Will, Aluren etc). Then you add to that cost the "cost increasers" (Sphere of Resistance, Thorn, Glowrider etc). And then you substract the "cost reducers" (Affinity, Warchief, Bannerets etc). Finally if you have a Trinisphere in play it checks how much mana you are paying and if it is below 3 you have to pay 3.
So as a rule of thumb: things that make your spell "free" -> things that increase cost -> things that lower cost -> Trinisphere

Oh and any reason why Mutavault isn't Mishra's Factory?

edit: To be fair I'm not exactly right either. In the Comprehensive rules part 409.1f it is written like this "The total cost is the mana cost, activation cost, or alternative cost, plus all additional costs and cost increases, and minus all cost reductions. " So it doesn't matter in which order you apply cost increasers and reducers however you have to take everything into account.
Theoretically you could go "4 (Frogmite) - 7 (seven artifacts in play) = -3 ; -3 + 3 (three Spheres of Resistance) = 0" or "4 + 3 - 7 = 0"

[Media314r8]

if he just wants to attack, its about half a dozen of one, 6 of the other, as mutavault is a nexus. Hell, some players might not even notice that and make bad blocks/attacks.

[xycsoscyx]

Wrong. First you check anything that makes the spell have an alternative cost (Force of Will, Aluren etc). Then you add to that cost the "cost increasers" (Sphere of Resistance, Thorn, Glowrider etc). And then you substract the "cost reducers" (Affinity, Warchief, Bannerets etc). Finally if you have a Trinisphere in play it checks how much mana you are paying and if it is below 3 you have to pay 3.
So as a rule of thumb: things that make your spell "free" -> things that increase cost -> things that lower cost -> Trinisphere

Ha, yup, I just happened to read a similar question on MTGSalvation which was answered by the judges there. So Thoughtcast actually can cost U even under Spheres, good to know. If it's a single equation, then you're right, it doesn't matter, but if it's done one at a time, then it would matter IF reducers were applied first (since it can't go below 0, then adding increasers). Since they're not, though, it's not an issue.

[raharu]

I've said it a thousand times before and I'll say it again. Beating for 5-10 turns with 2/2s and 4/4s doesn't cut it in the current metagoyf.

Even when restricting your opponent with Spheres? Recuring Spheres at that.

[Silverdragon]

Without Chrome Mox or other acceleration your first Sphere will come down turn 2. Now imagine your opponent going first with turn 1 fetch, cantrip; turn 2 land Tarmogoyf. You are now looking at a guy bigger than your Frogmite and you haven't even played a Sphere yet.
Even if you go first your opponent can still go turn 1 land cantrip and during your second turn Daze or Force your first Sphere.
The worst case scenario might be your opponent going first with fetch, Ponder followed by turn 2 Goyf and a Force/Daze for your Sphere so during your second turn Tarmogoyf is already a 4/5. (Ok it get's even worse if your opponent counters a Frogmite or Ravager as that means his Goyf is 5/6)
I think these kind of openings are all quite common from a modern Thresh deck so without acceleration Spheres are weak most of the time.
Even Goyf Sligh could be able to play a quick Goyf and grow it to enormous size by bolting your Ravager/Frogmite.

Btw I didn't see the Mutavault/Nexus trick :) Consider my question about Factory answered well ;)

[Cavius The Great]

Mutavault x2

Don't you know that Mutavault is strictly inferior to Mishra's Factory becuase of Engineered Plague? Unless you're playing them in Countersliver or Goblins, getting hit with -1/-1 with a Plague naming anything is kinda bad.

[Artowis]

Don't you know that Mutavault is strictly inferior to Mishra's Factory becuase of Engineered Plague? Unless you're playing them in Countersliver or Goblins, getting hit with -1/-1 with a Plague naming anything is kinda bad.

Reasonably sure you would be busy pumping the fist if somebody is stupid enough to board in E. Plague against this deck.

That said, there doesn't seem to be a reason to have Mutavault over Factory in this deck.

[raharu]

Reasonably sure you would be busy pumping the fist if somebody is stupid enough to board in E. Plague against this deck.

That said, there doesn't seem to be a reason to have Mutavault over Factory in this deck.

True. possibly -2 'Vault, -2 something else, +4 City of Traitors.

[Iamthewalrus(:3=]

Don't you know that Mutavault is strictly inferior to Mishra's Factory becuase of Engineered Plague? Unless you're playing them in Countersliver or Goblins, getting hit with -1/-1 with a Plague naming anything is kinda bad.

Plus the pumping. Factory trades with Goose after the first turn, and when you've got two Factories and only one spare mana, Factory beats for 3.