Page 229 of 231 FirstFirst ... 129179219225226227228229230231 LastLast
Results 4,561 to 4,580 of 4609

Thread: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

  1. #4561
    Member

    Join Date

    May 2015
    Location

    PDX
    Posts

    1,915

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    Maverick isnít playing that anyways; elves sure. Complaining about decay/fow/pyro in your monoU dreadnought deck seems silly. Uro is the most played creature in the format which should be reason enough to play it. Not to mention game 1 bolt to the face is more common than pyro.
    Maverick is playing Scryb Ranger and GSZ. You dump this nonsense on KotR and it free-attacks you on your turn, then they untap it using Scryb Ranger and you just got double striked. The game ends, and you have cards in hand you never got to roll out in the correct sequence because your "removal" just stole your time to use life as a resource. You don't get to spend life without reliably knowing what your life total is going to be moving into your next untap step.

    So when we think about KotR, we know a 1cmc permanent is going to get countered by Chalice and killed by Decay [AggroLoam], and you know that Scryb will untap it +/- Maze sustaining that untap [Maverick]. Without ever playing a single game vs KotR, you definitively know that you now need 1 SB slot for every mainboard copy of Bind the Monster you can't side out fast enough - so what's that removal spell you're willing to give up ~20% of your SB slots to?

    ^This is why you still play Dismember main, and if you want a 1 mana local enchant, you have the option to reach for just 2x SB slots of Mind Harness (which re-ups summoning sickness if it's removed).

    Edit: you're also gonna feel real bad when you realize tapping down a Collector Ouphe means you still can't use Scroll of Fate.

  2. #4562
    Bald. Bearded. Moderator.
    Mr. Safety's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2010
    Location

    Hell in a Nutshell
    Posts

    5,078

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Comparing a new card to niche matchups isn't really that productive; there will always be decks that can work around new cards. You aren't beating Maverick with your removal anyways, they have way more threats than you have answers, in any version. You win with playing early Delver backed up with countermagic or combo-ing a Dreadnought with countermagic. In that context, just tapping down a blocker so Dreadnought gets in for more damage is still viable. Your argument about RUG/Snowko matchups makes more sense...except the key cards that you want to stop are Arcanist and Uro. You have a mana-advantage by forcing them to use Force of Negation or Abrupt Decay on your U enchantment, which leaves you the option to commit more resources to fighting on the stack or taking attention away from Dreadnought. I'm not saying this is a perfect card, but it could be a good one. If you can deal with their best threats (Arcanist, Uro, Oko) and you can land a Standstill I think that's how you beat Snowko.

    Objectively, before testing, we know that Bind the Monster isn't the next best removal for blue. However, it's efficient enough to be tested to see if it's worth any slots. I am guessing this would only ever be 1-2 copies in a list regardless of what version you're playing. It gives more options to mono-blue. Is it as easily incorporated as Brazen Borrower was? No, not by a long shot. Is it better than Vapor Snag and Echoing Truth? Maybe.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  3. #4563
    Member

    Join Date

    May 2015
    Location

    PDX
    Posts

    1,915

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    The problem is it's every matchup that is suspect for Bind the Monster. I don't want to cast it anywhere near Elves/Maverick [untappers], DnT/Esper Vial [blinkers], any deck with Chalice, any deck with Marit Lage, any deck with Delver or Dreadhorde or Uro + Red blasts, postboard vs any Reclaimer deck [FoV], any deck with Grisel [draws your opponent 7 cards with the lifelink hit]. It's actually incredibly challenging to find any deck that I'd want this against; like maybe Shadow I guess...and, uh...I'm kinda blanking on any other deck where this would be good.

    The thing about discussing fringe scenarios is that it's the only thing left to discuss. This is the only place to find any reason to ever play this card.

  4. #4564
    Member

    Join Date

    May 2015
    Location

    PDX
    Posts

    1,915

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    With Oko banned we've been able to drop the worst card in our deck: Daze. Winrates up about 5% with UR's move to Karn, FoN, and Mystic Reflection. Currently testing Ascendant Spirit, which is showing more promise than Delver (net loss of instant/sorc dropped delver to a 1-2x). It has also been nice to get off creature type human.

    List is experimental at this time, but is shredding most things people are trying. Most of the work is being done on the SB. Smaller sample size, but we're clocking in a little north of 75% winrate. Eventually the format will devolve into Hymn vs Echo vs CB; maybe at that point I'll look at moving some things around.

    2x Ascendant Spirit
    3x Lavamancer
    2x TNN
    2x Dreadnought

    4x Standstill
    3x Shark'nado
    2x Scroll of Fate
    2x Karn

    4x Bolt
    4x BStorm
    4x Fow
    4x Stifle
    2x FoN
    1x Mystic Reflection

    21x standard land kit.

    SB in flux atm figuring out balance of wish/red blasts/yard hates/shatter suite. In terms of maindeck, mostly waiting for a manland that doesn't exist yet, or a Desert Fetchland; either one would make it easier to get in the second copy of Reflection. No interest in the U or R spell lands at this time, though the red one is quite close to being played.

    On the more humorous side of things someone tried to play UR artifact lands/PainterGrindstone/Liquimetal maindeck. The Liquimetal maindeck stuff is not acceptable, and as these things go, they jammed a Viashino Heretic, only to get responded to by our SB Gorilla Shaman. They conceded to 3 mana Rain of Salt. As silly as ye olde Gorilla is, it's been making a strong case for its SB slot.

    Edit: unfortunately they banned Dreadhorde, which was supposed to keep Delver losing to us. The price of that will unfortunately be the unavoidable race to the bottom, as Delver decks are completely unable to hate down Hymn and CB (whilst we turn to address Echo, until it is inevitably banned). Maybe there will be a few months until total hand destruction goes back to 25% of the meta, but I think it'll be sooner than this.

  5. #4565

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Hey dreadstillers!

    I'm considering picking up legacy after a long abscence, and thinking about ventering unto MTGO (which ive never tried before). Before I rush headlong I'd like to watch some streams to see how MTGO works in general and how dreadstill fares in particular. I heard Rood and Fox streams sometimes? Would you/anyone mind sharing their streams? anyone else's too for that matter?

    Incidentally, anyone cares to share some general remarks on MTGO. Is it alright to play on or is it super buggy / not enough players etc?

    Thanks!

  6. #4566
    Member

    Join Date

    May 2015
    Location

    PDX
    Posts

    1,915

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Check inbox for instructions on joining Dreadstill discord.

    On the mtgo interface, it's pretty miserable, but the bugs are generally addressed in a timely manner. I know of no bugs affecting us at this time. There are pretty significant questions about the shuffler's programming. It's a little too high on the rate of sending back a card you put on top post-cantrip/shuffle. Other than the shuffler annoyance, the 25 minute chess clock doesn't really account for the time lost for clicking through things we would shortcut in paper. Any time left over from sideboarding should probably be refunded to clock (especially as the format descends into the sheer stupidity and time-wasting that is the Hymn and CB meta).

    There are a few videos up on Piproberts' youtube, though these are pre-Oko ban, and the deck has changed considerably.

  7. #4567
    Bald. Bearded. Moderator.
    Mr. Safety's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2010
    Location

    Hell in a Nutshell
    Posts

    5,078

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Check out ELD's Time Vault games on YouTube, there are a handful of matches where Rood is playing his signature Ur Dreadstill list. Pretty good insight on how to play the deck, Rodney has been involved with the deck for a long time with good results.

    Edit: DOH! I wasn't paying attention; you specficially asked about MTGO content. Sorry!
    Last edited by Mr. Safety; 03-01-2021 at 12:10 PM.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  8. #4568

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Thanks both of you (stream of IRL plays are also interesting!)! I remember Rood from when I used to lurk this thread about eight years ago. Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't you around here also, Fox? I guess it might make sense to wait a bit with "buying in" on MTGO now that Oko has been banned. But I heard there are sites from where you can rent cards? Might be a nice idea in the interim, I guess. Although my "entertainment budget" is anyhow nowhere near spent since there was pretty much nothing to spend it on last year!

  9. #4569

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    MTGO is horrible for anything involving loops (rip food chain/bomber man) and the ui can be unintuitive. The community is small enough you do recognize people but itís definitely less social than irl. For most decks the timed saved shuffling vastly outweighs the losses of clicking through things.


    MTGO is absolutely worth it if you want to become a better player. Being able to take any brew and play against some of the best in the world whenever you want is great. Itís very clear about priority, phases and other rules qwerks you would miss in paper. Chess clocks rewards tight play instead of having to hound your opponent for slow play.

  10. #4570

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    I know most people go either mono U or UR for dreadstill deck. Is there a viable option in UW? Kinda like miracles/standstill, but with an actual win con. Could run shark typhoon as well

  11. #4571
    Member
    KobeBryan's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jun 2011
    Location

    Arcadia, CA
    Posts

    2,183

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by bomberman32 View Post
    I know most people go either mono U or UR for dreadstill deck. Is there a viable option in UW? Kinda like miracles/standstill, but with an actual win con. Could run shark typhoon as well
    Yes. That white enchantment that becomes a creature. Then you also have factories and sharks. You don't need any more than that.

  12. #4572
    Member

    Join Date

    May 2015
    Location

    PDX
    Posts

    1,915

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by bomberman32 View Post
    I know most people go either mono U or UR for dreadstill deck. Is there a viable option in UW? Kinda like miracles/standstill, but with an actual win con. Could run shark typhoon as well
    The primary deficit in UW Standstill/Landstill is lifegain; and the best lifegain in white is still StP your own Dreadnought. There is also a cluster of problems that arise from trying to cast Verdict against Port/Vial for Standstill/Landstill. The issue with Terminus is that they would need 4x Portent, 3x Terminus instead of what is more often 2x Ponder, 2x Verdict. So the overall answer with card Standstill is that the optimal configurations are UW Dreadstill, UR Dreadstill, or UBw Landstill.

    While UW/r Standstill/Landstill is playable, it is generally less reliable; it also suffers from not having access to any playable (if you're serious about winning) mana-requiring counterspells. It is getting to the point that maindeck REB or Tale's End are the best possible things to be doing, while Snare/Dovin's/Cspell/Pierce all just oscillate between losing to boardstate or losing harder to Veil or losing harder to Thassa - this clustering is unacceptable for hard control to absorb at deckbuilding. The one thing UWr Standstill has going for it is Spikefield Hazard as a hidden 2x land, and 2x SB Nahiri +1x Mind Slaver Emmy.

    To be clear on a few cards: when Standstill is mentioned, Shark'nado is there; if it isn't there the deck isn't built correctly. Myth Realized which @KobeBryan referenced is not a playable magic card in Dreadstill. I would argue that it's not even playable in UW/r Standstill anymore.

    On UW Dreadstill, the banning of our 1x Astrolabe has messed up structure of the deck. To compensate the manabase has been moved around to:
    4x Vista
    4x Strand
    2x Plains (split snow)
    4x Island (split snow)
    1x Tundra
    1x Karakas
    3x Wasteland
    1x Field of the Dead
    1x flex slot (we have tried Desert, Hostile Desert, Oboro, and Island thus far).

    Previously we had 3x Factory and were much better able to use the Teferi passive. The extra slots in the main have gone to a 3rd Shark'nado and Standstill. With Oko banned, Masticore removed from SB. With Factory moving out, Mystic Reflection currently for UR Dreadstill only. The test card in Spell Snare's slot is Cosmic Intervention at this time. With the loss of Astrolabe (and its E-Tutor), we have shifted a Stifle to a second Scroll. Rest of deck looks like:

    3x Nought
    1x JVP
    3x Shark'nado

    3x Teferi 3cmc
    2x Karn (a PW shared by UBw Landstill)

    4x Bstorm
    4x FoW
    4x Plow
    2x FoN
    3x Stifle
    3x Standstill
    2x Scroll
    2x Verdict
    1x Azcanta
    1x Sevinne's
    1x Cosmic

    SB can be found on pg.1 of this thread. C-Priest can be changed to 2nd Ashiok [Omniscience, Uro]. RiP and Ratchet Bomb are flex slots.

    I've talked about it before in this thread (probably in last 10 pages) about the gameplay of UW; just understand that the deck has a very steep learning curve, and it will be a little steeper with Astrolabe ban destabilizing the construction. UR is far more forgiving and quicker to learn.

    If you would like to learn Dreadstill, you can pm me to get access to the discord. A sample league can be seen on Piprobert's YouTube channel, and I'll try to work with him to create a video of the 4-1 league we played together.

  13. #4573
    Bald. Bearded. Moderator.
    Mr. Safety's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2010
    Location

    Hell in a Nutshell
    Posts

    5,078

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by KobeBryan View Post
    Yes. That white enchantment that becomes a creature. Then you also have factories and sharks. You don't need any more than that.
    Myth Realized
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  14. #4574

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by bomberman32 View Post
    I know most people go either mono U or UR for dreadstill deck. Is there a viable option in UW? Kinda like miracles/standstill, but with an actual win con. Could run shark typhoon as well
    Pure standstill is boshNrolls pet deck. I am not sure if fox is talking about UW dreadstill but UW standstill is a solid deck.

    Hall of heliod plus shark typhoon is an incredible and uncounterable grind engine vs other blue decks, and lets you just jam that t2 standstill into most board states. Overall the wincon has many advantages over dreadnought. Field of the dead doesnít turn on easily, etbs tapped, and is awkward with moat.

  15. #4575
    Member

    Join Date

    May 2015
    Location

    PDX
    Posts

    1,915

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Moat really should not be in Standstill. Oko is banned, play Humility and stop losing to SnT, Skyclave, shatter-bears.

    I was talking about UW Standstill and Dreadstill. The problem with Standstill is that white is the third worst color for lifegain; this is a primary deficit.

  16. #4576

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    Moat really should not be in Standstill. Oko is banned, play Humility and stop losing to SnT, Skyclave, shatter-bears.

    I was talking about UW Standstill and Dreadstill. The problem with Standstill is that white is the third worst color for lifegain; this is a primary deficit.
    None of your lists in the last several pages have any lifegain whatsoever...

  17. #4577
    Member

    Join Date

    May 2015
    Location

    PDX
    Posts

    1,915

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    None of your lists in the last several pages have any lifegain whatsoever...
    Dreadnought is a 1 mana 12/12, please read Swords to Plowshares. All removal in a list with Dreadnought needs to have multi-modal application; while gain 12 isn't as good as 3 to the dome of Lightning Bolt, it solves the biggest problem the card Standstill has when played with UW or UWr.

  18. #4578

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    Dreadnought is a 1 mana 12/12, please read Swords to Plowshares. All removal in a list with Dreadnought needs to have multi-modal application; while gain 12 isn't as good as 3 to the dome of Lightning Bolt, it solves the biggest problem the card Standstill has when played with UW or UWr.
    I think Poeís Law applies here. Are you honestly saying 3 cards and 3 mana for 12 life is a viable line in legacy vs not-burn?

  19. #4579
    Member

    Join Date

    May 2015
    Location

    PDX
    Posts

    1,915

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    I think Poeís Law applies here. Are you honestly saying 3 cards and 3 mana for 12 life is a viable line in legacy vs not-burn?
    Against Burn it is -2 cards so Burn loses 4 cards/draws, yes. Against Delver we go a step further than UW Standstill, where we don't just kill their guys with white cards and turn Daze into -1 card penalty, we can also turn off all the Bolts in their deck too (in multiple ways, Wasteland or gain 12)

    This function of deleting Delver's red cards from relevance means our blue cards are freed up to function as instant speed discard on the stack, and this leads to inevitability over time [that time bought by +12 life]. It should also be noted that we have a 12/12 on board which may also be in a position to block or attack [and it kills Library users real quick].

    Lifegain is the primary deficit causing losses in UW Standstill decks without Dreadnought. It used to be the second Tundra and the god-awful inability to grab basic white from half of our Fetches, but Vista solved this problem.

  20. #4580
    Salt of the earth
    sdematt's Avatar
    Join Date

    May 2009
    Location

    Canada
    Posts

    4,679

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    New card got spoiled: Strict Proctor

    1W, Flying, 1/3

    Whenever a permanent entering the battlefield causes a trigger, counter that ability unless it's controller pays 2.


    So....thoughts for Dreadnought?
    "I only drink whiskey older than my girlfriends. It's an expensive hobby at either end of the scale, no matter which way you work it. Do you go with an expensive lady, or a smooth drink? It's a real dilemma."

    "I'm your Huckleberry."

    "If it takes more than a day to decide, you'll never decide"

    Apparently John Cox, LordofthePit, Einherjer, Mr. Safety, Imnotbrown, Treefolk Master, and Parax love what I have to say.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 9 users browsing this thread. (1 members and 8 guests)

  1. Fox