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Thread: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

  1. #4641
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    Why is humility blue ???

    Why is Yawgmoth will green ??

    Nothing makes sense this set
    Blue has a litany of Turn to Frog/Turn to Useless cards. This is pretty on-color for us. Phasing on white doesn't make a ton of sense, but the precident* is at least there with Equipoise.

    On Will, green is at least a pretty Regrowth'y color. I think if Yawg Will did not exist that you wouldn't be shocked by the effect as green.

  2. #4642

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Disapprove was instead translated to english as Dress Down but the card is awesome in testing.

    The list remains the same.

    People seem to miss that you can cast Dress Down at the end of your opponent's turn, and then cast any combination of Dreadnought, or Uro, or evoke a Subtlety, or all 3, on your turn in order to get a 12/12 trampler along with either a 6/6 uro or a 3/3 flyer all in one go which means the only way your opponent wins is if they manage to Wrath the board the very next turn (for which you have FoW and Daze and FoN to help protect against).

    Vaka Nought 3.0

    15 U/G Lands
    4 Wasteland

    4 Stifle
    4 Dress Down

    4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
    4 Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath
    3 Noble Hierarch
    1 Sylvan Library
    1 Force of Negation/Misdirection/Divert/Flusterstorm/Spell Snare

    4 Ponder
    4 Brainstorm

    4 Force of Will
    4 Daze
    4 Subtlety (Flex Slot, could instead be Ice-Fang Coatl/Brazen Borrower/Standstill/Jace or Tarmogoyf)

    It's absolutely fantastic. I highly highly recommend testing the Vaka Nought build above (in paper using something else in place of Dress Down and Subtlety)

    The only card I am not 100% sure about yet is Subtlety. I am really looking forward to further testing Subtlety in that utility slot. The blue count is more than sufficient. There are situations where evoking a Subtlety during a turn that you have a Dress Down on the board just to get a 3/3 flyer might be useful. I anticipate that Subtlety and Noble Hierarch will be key to this strategy if Sudden Edict sees a lot of play next month.
    Last edited by Clark Kant; 05-29-2021 at 07:08 PM.

  3. #4643
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Getting the anti-Daze ETB trigger [land drop and card draw] is kinda the whole point of Uro. While you can get around the sac trigger, it's not really a good legacy play. You may have some tools to play a little around Surgical/yard hate by sticking Uro in play, but you also play a ton of copies of Uro. You can't really sit on these in hand, and only ever cast if you draw the avoids-GY enabler. Your wincon is jamming and crossing fingers; Disapprove doesn't really change that.

  4. #4644

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Possibly, but I think you meant this for the Pox thread. ~Mr. Safety~
    Last edited by Pittplayer; 05-26-2021 at 10:36 PM.

  5. #4645
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    In Stiflenought, the red Rager & Disapprove aka Dress Down solve our Delver flip issues:

    4 Rage Channeler
    1-2 Gargoyle
    4 PhD
    2 Brazen B
    1-2 Whale / TNN

    2 Scroll
    2 Dress Down

    24 Tempo, Bolt, Stifle

    19 UR Delver manabase

    This (i.e. Delirium enabling > Delver flipping) might also work in a Standstill list, although there we can't quite leverage Rager's Surveil-Prowess as well. And I continue to believe that, outside of hard control, Standstill is too inconsistent in a format that has become increasingly play/draw dependent since 2018.

  6. #4646
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Let me tell you about 1-card delirium: sacrifice Urza's Saga, sacrifice tutored Dreadnought. Delver probably out of our lists forever. Was hard enough to flip before Scroll and Shark'nado.

    Vantress Gargoyle still not playable. Whale is exceedingly poor choice, particularly if going for delirium.

  7. #4647
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    Let me tell you about 1-card delirium: sacrifice Urza's Saga, sacrifice tutored Dreadnought. Delver probably out of our lists forever.
    ...
    Vantress Gargoyle still not playable. Whale is exceedingly poor choice, particularly if going for delirium.
    Fox: glad we agree on Delver-Rager swap.

    That US-DN Delirium line is hilarious but useless for flipping an early Rager (takes 3 turns), and Whale is just a super solid card that's easily supported in low numbers in a Rager list (think 1-2 Mandrills alongside Goyfs in RUG). But I'm never sure here about the correct numbers of tertiary Scroll-nonbo threats between Whale/TNN.

    Gargoyle is a card we need to keep in mind, and I see a few indications that the upcoming meta would make it viable: double-synergy with Delirium and Dress Down here, blocks opp.'s delirious Ragers, and always a nice Force pitch vs. Chalice and other decks where it's hard to turn on. Uro numbers are already on the decline and vs. pretty much any other blue deck Gargoyle is strong--again: especially vs. the new 8-Delver decks (not to mention cute stuff like: they Surveil to the top, we mill in response).

  8. #4648
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    I don't know that we need to be putting threats on blue any more and rewarding opponents for playing REB.

    On *enemy* DRC [Dragon Rage Chan], I don't think going to be the most viable of cards. They start sabotaging their Delver flips with Bauble, and I think it's a spiral they can't break out of. It takes very little from enemy decks to keep that card down at 1/1 status, and the DRC decks aren't going to be able to get delirium online quickly & reliably.

    Without a comeback mechanism, their decks are also going to struggle with not opening on aggro-Volc (threat on red, Daze on blue). This really easy to punish, and they can't even fight back on the Stifle axis as long as they're playing Iteration. This amount of color splitting also makes it pretty hard for them to play the Wasteland game early (they can't afford to play off one color, so they play into our Wastelands). I think the promise of Lotus Petal [mana resilience] and maybe-value will push them towards Ragavan over DRC over time...until Ragavan gets himself banned b/c of whining.
    ---
    The better Delver gets vs the meta, the easier it is out-Delver them and play against the leftovers in the meta. If the budget meme that is UR Delver is really that oppressive to the meta, we just go back to Daze for a bit:
    4x Tarn
    4x Vista
    5x Island
    1x Volc
    1x Mountain
    2x Saga
    3x Wasteland

    3x DRC
    2x Lavaman
    3x Nought
    1x TNN

    4x Bstorm
    4x FoW
    4x Daze
    4x Bolt
    3x Stifle
    2x Spikefield Hazard

    4x Standstill
    2x Shark'nado
    2x Dress Down
    2x Scroll

    Some of the numbers can be moved around, like swapping Lavamancer to 3x and DRC down to 2x, getting a second Mountain over a Spikefield. If their deck isn't good enough to revert to Daze, we go up 2 slots by changing Daze to 2x FoN, and get to play that PW-killing enchant main lol. Initial SB testing will be 2x Suspend, and we'll still have super-Chandra (tap Scroll -> put in super-Chandra -> Suspend target her = free Chandra, which is pretty funny).

  9. #4649

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by Clark Kant View Post
    Vaka Nought 3.0

    15 U/G Lands
    4 Wasteland

    4 Stifle
    4 Dress Down

    4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
    4 Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath
    3 Noble Hierarch
    1 Sylvan Library
    1 Force of Negation/Misdirection/Divert/Flusterstorm/Spell Snare

    4 Ponder
    4 Brainstorm

    4 Force of Will
    4 Daze
    4 Subtlety (Flex Slot, could instead be Ice-Fang Coatl/Brazen Borrower/Standstill/Jace or Tarmogoyf)
    I think I really like Esper Sentinel (and a Teferi3) in that flex slot above. It either draws you a bunch of cards, akin to standstill, or it’s a huge removal/counter magnet and makes your later threats more likely to stick.

  10. #4650
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Definitely do not play Daze and Esper Sentinel in the same deck; you're telling opponent that there are only 2 card names they need to address [Uro and Dreadnought]. There is also considerable risk when, more than playing a third color, you are trying to make plays with that third color before turn 3. Esper Sentinel is a card which pretty strongly suggests you're trying to cheese Winter Orb, especially if you play Hierarch.

  11. #4651
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by Tobitzki View Post
    In Stiflenought, the red Rager & Disapprove aka Dress Down solve our Delver flip issues:

    4 Rage Channeler
    1-2 Gargoyle
    4 PhD
    2 Brazen B
    1-2 Whale / TNN

    2 Scroll
    2 Dress Down

    24 Tempo, Bolt, Stifle

    19 UR Delver manabase

    This (i.e. Delirium enabling > Delver flipping) might also work in a Standstill list, although there we can't quite leverage Rager's Surveil-Prowess as well. And I continue to believe that, outside of hard control, Standstill is too inconsistent in a format that has become increasingly play/draw dependent since 2018.
    The new suspend removal is certainly interesting because it garuntees a SS trigger. Also the cycle new Eternal Dragon that flashes back as a 4/4 is getting printed. Standstill will become stronger then ever with this new set.
    UR Dreadstill creator and BRx WGD Combo Pioneer
    Quote Originally Posted by xsockmonkeyx View Post
    EDIT: and Roodmistah. If Dreadstill sucks then he's been mopping up the East Coast with a "crap" deck and making you all look bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbi View Post
    "Protection from player" is like a joke ability from Unglued. Ban this crap from legacy asap.

  12. #4652
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    MH2 review:
    UR
    -Urza's Saga: this 2x replaces the Factory 3x. Wildly overpriced, so let the hype die down while people figure out the hard way that it's making their mana worse. True value of this card is like $10 at best.
    -Dragon's Rage Channeler: aka DRC. This card replaces Delver. Note that Saga find Dreadnought has a floor of 1-card delirium. Price acceptable at $1.
    -Flame Blitz: free to include, counts toward delirium. Price is good at 50 cents.
    -Fury: wildly overpriced, but it plays nicely with SB Suspend. Decent option for SB if it wasn't overpriced by a factor of 5x, this card's true value lives somewhere around $3.
    UW
    -Timeless Dragon: easy 1x per 2x Plains-cards you have. $2 is overpriced; see if you can find for 50cents to $1.
    -Moderation: this card is technically good with Scroll of Fate, but with the banning of our 1x Astrolabe and subsequent loss of reason to run 1x E-Tutor main, the 1x doesn't seem particularly worthwhile or reliable. If there was some way to grab this out of the SB, like maybe I'd pay up to 50 cents for one. If they banned card type PW, we would consider this more seriously.
    multiple configs
    -Dress Down: the price has already started to crash, which is great for this automatic 2x in any Nought list. Even the alt-art under $4.
    -Suspend: this card is not worth more than $2. Anyways it's just SnT in combination with Scroll, 5th Plow with Teferi passive, protects a dude, hoses Marit Lage, and forces enemy dude to be recast into Standstill. Hilarious that this card is sitting at $8; wait for its price to crash.
    -Step Through: no great game-action wizard card for Standstill to go after at this time, still worth it to own 2x since the card costs maybe 25 cents.
    -Murktide Regent: wildly overpriced, and not really that good with Dreadstill. This card is pretty much mandatory in StifleNought however. Comes in at $30 per copy, and I don't see it coming down anytime soon as it was mythic-printed. Too much demand for this card in UR Delver.

    -Mine Collapse: worse Flame Blitz, but technically playable.
    -Solitude: in UW any alt-cast would generally cost you a kill spell to exile, but this card does have lifelink and flash so it could see play with UW/x Landstill/Standstill as it addresses a primary deficit. If banned in modern, the price should be less outrageous...$40 kill spell... Pretty great though with Suspend.
    -Resurgent Belief: we don't need this right now, but worth spec'ing on if it drops below $5. If Daze is banned, it's less important to have ability to invest 100% of mana [suspend] which opponent can't interact with. There is a non-zero chance that modern will try to use this with Shark'nado and stuff like Soul Snare and Porphry Nodes; if they were to add Flame Blitz to the mix, they would not leave opponents with many card types to pressure with. Hopefully they don't see this for a while while suspend-Replenish crashes a bit in price. Modern does have a history of hilariously overpricing simple kill spells, so even Soul Snare can be considered for spec'ing. It's a little higher variance though since On Thin Ice is only $2 and is arguably the better card.
    -Out of Time: this card is pretty easy to exploit with Stifle, and you can keep looping this as a wrath with Teferi [-3]. The card is quite good, but the 2nd white pip makes it just as hard to cast as Verdict vs Port. Worth a playset when it drops under $1.
    -Abiding Grace: loops Noughts and Shadow over and over, but we're not going to do much with sac effects at this time (i.e. we're not going to throw them into an Altar of Dementia or Greater Good or Grave Pact or Diamond Valley-style card). Definitely a do-nothing card, but it's white so you drive up copies with E Tutor. The most you'd ever need is 1x for the 25 cents it'll cost you.
    -Rishadan Dockhand: looked like we were going to try this 2x out for a little bit in UR Dreadstill, but then they printed DRC lol. It's obviously very good against people trying to leave up REB on basic Mountain. Not willing to pay more than $1 for this card, with the expectation that merfolk-cycling will eventually be printed (nice option to get utility out of an otherwise TNN slot).

    Honorable mention:
    Dermotaxi: Urza's Saga makes 2 dudes...this can exile enemy Uro or a 12/12 Saga just found...this card really isn't all that bad. I think it's underpriced in the long run.

  13. #4653
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    One addendum worth it's own post: Cavern on Phyrexian now casts 12/12s and Plague Engi. This means that UG can play zero true black sources and have access to PE thanks to 1x Cavern, 2x Lotus, and Reclaimer/GSZ. It's the best removal straight-UG has ever had. Don't know that I'd maindeck it, but it's a lot less frustrating than looking at Lotus and saying "I guess Verdict is the only option in straight-UG." Of note 1x Cavern makes a lot more sense with end step Dress Down, which is much more likely to force opponent to hemorrhage blue cards in the setting of untap -> tap Cavern -> your blue card does nothing. Any time you can pick fights you care absolutely nothing about you're gaining win %. Definitely a rules update win for UG.

  14. #4654
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1047771255
    ^You can watch our green Dreadnought brothers [Testacular on Elves] in the legacy showcase. Between rounds is UR Dreadstill, vintage edition. Fury was lonely and he needed a home, so I made him one. Time marks:
    1hr17 vs Mills on Wheels (Helmerator + HullyB/Wheel effects).
    2hr17 vs Grixis Midrange.
    4hr3 vs 8Walla. I definitely made a bad call on keeping the 7 after seeing Powder, but otherwise I like the other play patterns. There was one interesting spot in G3 where Surgical could have been used with DRC on stack still; I think I play the same way though towards the mill engine.
    4hr59 vs Grixis Midrange. Second game fell victim to double queue problems, and we didn't have time for 3rd game, but I think it would end in our favor.

    --Mana = 15 + 2 mdfc + 5 (22)
    4x Tarn
    2x Vista
    2x Island
    1x Mountain
    2x Volc
    3x Saga
    1x Strip Mine
    1x Lotus
    1x Sol Ring
    1x Sapphire
    1x Ruby
    1x Jet
    2x Spikefield Hazard

    --Dudes (7)
    4x DRC
    2x Dreadnought
    1x Fury

    --Enchants (7)
    3x Standstill
    3x Dress Down
    1x Flame Blitz

    --Artifacts, random (1)
    1x Relic of Progenitus

    --Spells, non-restricted (11)
    4x FoW
    3x Bolt
    2x Reins of Power
    1x FoN
    1x Repeal

    --PWs (3)
    2x Dack
    1x Karn

    --Restricted (9)
    Ancestral, Cruise, Dig, Bstorm, Ponder, Git Probe, Misstep, Yawg Will, Time Walk

    --SB
    2x By Force
    2x Pyroblast
    1x REB
    1x Shattering Spree
    1x Ashiok
    1x Surgical
    1x Soul-Guide Lantern
    1x Needle
    1x EE
    1x Crucible
    1x Alpine Moon
    1x Izzet Staticaster
    1x Price of Progress

    This format is so bad for writing down decklists succinctly lol. Anyways deck was a ton of fun, and worked out really well. The mana equation is the hardest part to figure out about vintage, with Moxen vs land numbers. Urza's Saga is also unique here, in that it represents colored mana in hand assessment with fetch Mox & Lotus lines. The whole Urza's Saga fetch Mox Jet for Yawg Will is idiotic; watch match 4 game 1. Testacular also joined me today as the only other pilot in eternal formats who has unlocked the 7th level of Dreadnought'ing achievement badge: WrathNought! (that's Reins of Power -> Dreadnought -> I sac it all!...and I don't care if your team had indestructible or hexproof or shroud or protection)

    As with all decks, the most important thing is to tell the story of magic. The Phyrexian Scriptures tell us of Yawgmoth's Will and of the Phyrexian invasion, spearheaded by Dreadnoughts. This deck is dripping in flavor, and even has Urza's Saga to provide that tension and excitement you could feel in the storyline between Urza and Yawgmoth. To aid in this flavor win, there is ofc the supporting cast of boring normal magic. I went heavier on DRC, good friend Fury, Lightning Blitz, and the burn spells to set the backdrop of the world burning down around Urza and Yawgmoth's epic contest. Just having the world burning down all the time though is a little boring; see also how boring every story with Eldrazi is - it's always some pointless story about how the Jace-tice league will inevitably triumph vs the big bad Eldrazi, who are so powerful that they always lose and get imprisoned in the moon....cool. Anyways I digress, the world burning down is broken up by points of calm, a Tempest before and between the firestorms; a storytelling tactic that only Standstill can truly capture.

    In terms of future tuning, more testing would need to be done. I was pretty leery of losing the 6th red source audible from Spikefield #2, but perhaps this could be the slot for SDT (which should be a 1x I think). There is also a question about the optimal number of DRC at 3x or 4x. The quality of card draw in vintage is so outrageous, compared to legacy, that I really wanted to test just how far the surveil could be pushed. Lightning Blitz is another self-entombing enchant [cycling 2] for delirium, and I liked knowing that amount of raw power was sitting in the deck if it was needed; why Blitz is consistency positive [cycling], I'll never know - but I won't question it b/c card type PW is not legitimate, so screw em. Fury is interesting, and I'm not convinced it shouldn't actually just be there as a 1x...it really bridges this gap between Spikefield/Bolt and WrathNought pretty well. The Yawg Will bullcrap exploit of alt-cast Fury from the yard is real effin' dumb, and I loved it. Price of Progress in the board is there to really drive home the severity of the situation, the extent to which this deck is coming after your life total.

    The reason to do all of this is ofc Dress Down...and who doesn't love dumpstering Thassa thugs sitting on infinite Flusterstorms telling themselves they're amazing at magic. While Dress Down is a free include in the sense that it replaces itself, there is no way to justify playing it by itself, certainly not in a maindeck. It would be like playing a somewhere between a safe and crappy Accumulated Knowledge if you can't make opponents react to it. (safe in the sense that it draws through Hullbreacher's suggestion of a textbox; crappy in that the redundant copies do not draw 2, 3, 4 cards).

    Dress Down also has the ability to function as a kill spell vs +1/+1 counter dudes sitting on the stack with printed P/T of 0/0. Using Dress Down correctly is just as important in legacy as vintage as it will kill any X/X constructs or sharks currently in play.

    Happy Hunting, we vintage now!

  15. #4655

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Help me Lord Fox, you’re my only hope.

    Been trying UW with the new cards and hemorrhaging tickets but having fun with it.
    Do you have a proposed list?
    Liking Timeless Dragon and Dress Down. Not so sure about Urza’s Saga.

  16. #4656
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    UW mostly on the back burner until Daze is banned; it's just a little too easy to beat up on everything UR Delver does with UR Dreadstill.

    UW is mostly unchanged:
    Land (21)
    4x Vista
    4x Strand
    5x Island (option to have any blue land as Island #5)
    2x Plains
    1x Tundra
    3x Wasteland
    1x Karakas
    1x Field of the Dead (split basics as snow)

    Creatures [5]
    3x Nought
    1x JVP
    1x Timeless Dragon

    PW [5]
    3x Teferi
    2x Karn

    Spells [20]
    4x FoW
    4x BS
    4x Plow
    3x Stifle
    2x Verdict
    2x FoN
    1x Sevinne's

    Artifact [2]
    2x Scroll of Fate

    Enchant [7]
    2x Shark'nado
    3x Standstill
    1x Azcanta
    1x Dress Down

    Alternatively you could run 2x Saga, moving a Nought to SB and cutting the Field. This would favor 2x Dress Down, but you'd also want a 1 mana target besides Nought, so probably a Relic. Scroll would have to go down to 1x main, and you'd probably have to cut a second Stifle. I don't care much for this build however, b/c combat isn't really how the deck wins; certainly not sorcery speed + summoning sick.

    There is the option to work in a 1x Suspend into the maindeck of the non-Saga build. On the new dragon, you need 2x Plains-cards per copy you try to run.

  17. #4657

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Cool. That is close to what I have been playing but with a way better manabase.
    I ran Soul-Guide Lantern with Urza’s Saga, which was actually pretty good. But yeah, my Karnatructs are generally too small and losing the mana source hurts a lot.

  18. #4658

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Dress Down probably should be a 4 of along with 3-4 Uro moving forward. Dress Down is an incredibly versatile card, comparable to stifle in power level due to it cantripping as well as messing up your opponents game plan. I donated to BoshNRoll to play the simic list I posted two weeks ago, and the video does a great job showing just how powerful the card is...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETm2CazPDq8

    Highly recommend watching the video of the league before reading further. Game one is absolutely hilarious and is blisteringly fast. BoshNRoll provides fantastic commentary and explanations as always. And he is absolutely one of the best magic players out there, inspite of a minor mistake that seems to have cost him the 5-0 (dazing the dark ritual against oops would have led to a 5-0, and there was no reason not too since the opponent already cast summoner’s pact), is an absolute delight to watch and learn from.

    Several posters wanted to read about or watch a mtgo league of deck in action and I thought it would be cool to be able to share gameplay footage. Unfortunately, technical limitations of my decade old laptop and it’s frequent crashes which have cost me multiple matches (apple user so not great with fixing windows mtgo bugs) has made that impossible, so I went back to the practice rooms and donated to BoshNRoll to take one of the Vaka Nought iterations through a magic online league to be able to share some cool gameplay and inspire discussion here.

    What makes this dreadnought deck unique is that the card neutrality and versatility of dress down and the resilience of Uro make it very easy to switch to a midrange game plan if plan A fails, and also to transform into a full midrange deck postboard against control decks that simply pack too many answers for plan A to work. Earlier Dreadnought lists lost to control, where as this deck is able to pivot to a decent matchup against control. The video does a great job showing this.

    The list BoshNRoll played is the Simic Version that I had submitted (I had also submitted a Bant and a Grixis version and asked him to pick and tweak his favorite list, but I really loved that the simic version could be built without dual lands, simply by replacing the tropical islands with a prismatic vista and an additonal snow covered island)…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETm2CazPDq8

    Vaka Nought – Simic

    3 Wasteland

    1 Urza’s Saga

    2 Snow-Covered Forest

    3 Snow-Covered Island

    3 Tropical Island

    3 Prismatic Vista

    4 Misty Rainforest

    4 Phyrexian Dreadnought

    4 Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath

    2 Noble Hierarch

    2 Brazen Borrower

    1 Ice-Fang Coatl

    1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

    4 Brainstorm

    4 Ponder

    2 Sylvan Library

    4 Dress Down

    4 Stifle

    4 Daze

    4 Force of Will

    1 Force of Negation

    Sideboard:

    3 Endurance

    2 Veil of Summer

    2 Carpet of Flowers

    1 Wilt

    1 Collector Ouphe

    1 Sylvan Safekeeper

    1 Flusterstorm

    1 Blue Elemental Blast

    1 Null Rod

    1 Pithing Needle

    1 Soul-Guide Lantern

    The video speaks for itself. It was a very competitive league but the only game lost the whole league was due to a minor misread/misplay vs. No Land Spy which ironically enough happens to be among Vaka Nought’s most favorable matchups (8 maindeck Stifle and Dress Down are a nightmare for Thassa’s Oracle based decks). Otherwise BoshNRoll played as amazing as he always does. It was fun watching him take gameplay lines that I wouldnt have considered, such as casting a sylvan library at 1:05 to draw out a suspected abrupt decay instead of casting dress down at the end of your opponents turn two so that you could slam two Dreadnoughts the following turn as I would have done to try to save the Stifle for a potentional Liliana downtick or Deed activation later in the game.


    But as powerful and budget friendly as the Simic version is, I had since switched back to the Bant version due to how powerful Prismatic Ending has been…

    Vaka Nought - Bant

    4 Wasteland

    4 Misty Rainforest

    4 Flooded Strand

    2 Snow-Covered Island

    1 Snow-Covered Forest

    1 Snow-Covered Plains

    1 Tundra

    2 Tropical Island

    4 Phyrexian Dreadnought

    4 Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath

    2 Noble Hierarch

    1 Ice-Fang Coatl

    1 Brazen Borrower

    4 Brainstorm

    4 Ponder

    4 Stifle

    4 Dress Down

    4 Daze

    4 Force of Will

    3 Prismatic Ending

    1 Swords to Plowshares

    1 Sylvan Library

    Sideboard:

    3 Endurance

    2 Knight of Autumn

    2 Carpet of Flowers

    1 Serenity

    1 Force of Negation

    1 Mystical Dispute

    1 Brazen Borrower

    1 Collector Ouphe

    1 Containment Priest

    1 Mother of Runes

    1 Swords to Plowshares

    The above are the two tuned and refined lists of Vaka Nought, but I have a lot more fun toying around with Grixis Vaka Nought...

    Vaka Nought - Grixis

    4 Wasteland

    4 Polluted Delta

    4 Scalding Tarn

    2 Underground Sea

    2 Volcanic Island

    2 Lands

    4 Thoughtseize

    4 Daze

    4 Force of Will

    4 Stifle

    4 Dress Down

    4 Brainstorm

    4 Ponder

    0-2 Reanimate

    4 Phyrexian Dreadnought

    8 Creatures from the below choices…

    Dragon’s Rage Channeler + Mishra’s Baubles and Urza’s Sagas for consistent delirium

    Death’s Shadow +/- Street Wraits (Shadow seems to work better as a 1-2 of midgame bomb in a build with 0-1 shocks instead of as a 4 of paried with multiple wraiths and shocks)

    Either Kroxa, Titan of Death’s Hunger or Gurmag Angler possibly paired with Ragavan instead of Channeler (Kroxa is fantastic with Dress Down and Stifle but competes with Channeler for the yard a bit, but not really a nonbo the way that Angler + Channeler are)

    Have not had a chance to test Ragavan or Dark Confidant or Bonecrusher Giant bur those could take up some slots.

    3-4 Ragavan + 3 Kroxa + 1-2 Deaths Shadows as a random midgame bomb might end up being correct.

    My current build runs 4 Dragon’s Rage Channelers along with Mishra’s Baubles and Urza’s Sagas to find Dreadnought while maximizing your enchantment and artifact count to ensure consistent delirium. Channeler has exceeded my expectations by serving double duty as both a threat and a way to dig for key cards faster. Its almost like a mini sylvan library strapped to the back of a delver.

    The Grixis list is in flux but all the synergies are a lot of fun. Death’s Shadow briefly becomes a 13/13 when you cast Dress Down and Kroxa, similar to Uro, can be stifled, or it could be cast during a turn that you have Dress Down on the board. A 2 mana value Kroxa is superior to a 3 mana value Uro in situations where you no longer need to pay a 4 mana escape cost the next turn.

    I am probably going to donate to boshnroll to play the grixis list through a league, even though the bant version is more competitive and much more likely to 5-0, just because the grixis list is more fun to watch and play.
    Last edited by Clark Kant; 06-15-2021 at 10:05 AM.

  19. #4659
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    The main thing to take from that video is how bad Daze was. You have to be able to pressure to play cards like that. When you can't pressure you're trying to draw past not only dead Dazes, but also Hierarch topdeck landmines.

    The first opponent registered a modern deck into legacy? Somehow Oops won a match your list is >90% favored in. The end was 2 midrange decks, and a poorly constructed Delver deck. It's great to 4-1, but those last 3 opponents had suboptimal decks, the Jund pilot definitely misplayed multiple times, and I have to suspect that the basically-Blade deck also had a number of punts. I don't think the Delver pilot had enough meaningful decisions to punt away the game, I just think they were always gonna lose that one. On the plus side, Bosh routinely missed lines where the best play was clearly to pass the turn -> EoT Dress Down -> untap and slam Noughts. He also missed the interaction between Dress Down and ambush 3/4 evoke eating 0/1 Goyf. Even if we keep the midrange decks on suboptimal lists, if we inject correct play into these matches [on both sides], I think they pretty much always win. JTMS overperformed at not only somehow surviving without protection (and dodging Pyroblast), but also being topdecked as a 1-of. JTMS is not a trustworthy card, and Bosh got really lucky to not get called on it when this was the top of the curve in a deck running Carpets. Nissa in this slot makes a lot more sense, especially since you don't care about tossing lands at opponent's removal when you have Carpet in play. So again great to 4-1 and all, but this is not a realistic reflection of viability.

    Bosh correctly identified that tossing StifleNoughts around with nothing else going on, isn't really a gameplan vs kill spell dot decks. He also correctly identified that your deck really shouldn't be dabbling in Urza's Saga without at least a value target (preferably one that does something and draws a card, so like Relic).

    He made some play errors, but pretty much played the deck at the highest power level it can achieve...and it struggled tremendously vs highly suboptimal fair-to-midrange normal legacy decks. I think this, and just how bad Daze was, are the more important lessons to take away.

  20. #4660

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Um, did you watch the same video that I did. Nothing about the opposing lists was bad. Shadow is a perfectly solid legacy deck. What cards were opponents playing that seemed suboptimal? Both Ragavan and Ignoble Hierarch are powerful cards, and the other cards were all legacy staples.

    Also, interesting that youre both arguing that daze is a bad card in a clearly tempo deck, and also stating that daze will be banned due to how strong it is in delver, on the same page.

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