Hey, Tangle.Wire, is 65 cards intentional?
Tusk up.
Originally Posted by Finn
Yes, as i already played a 61 card list i couldn't cut any stuff just for mox diamonds so they came on top of the list. It has never been a problem as i don't have to count on them as a mana source but often can use them to speed up the gameplay.
Mox Diamond can speed up your gameplan. (turn 1 nought is good) but if you can't cut anything in order to put it into your deck, you drasticly lower your chances of having an early nought.
Playing more then 60 cards is most of the time just a way of proving that you don't know the deck your playing, and don't know how to value the cards in the deck.
Personally i don't feel that turn 1 nought is needed, and therefore i don't play diamonds when i play dreadstill, but i have tested once upon a time.
Also I don't think turn 1-2 Nought is needed. I play turn 2 Nought only if I have a way to protect it or I know opponent can't remove it. We are a control deck, not an aggro one. You can control the game, and when you feel in a good control position/able to protect nought you drop it and win.
After saying this I must add that when I drop 2 noughts together I lose. So 1 is just enought to win!
Turn 2 Nought is godly. Probably a 60% instant win on the play and higher if you have counter backup. It's the only play in magic that I'll do blind without any idea of what the other player is trying to do or of what he likely holds.
T2 nought is strong yes....But you should also protect yourself if you go t2 nought and they go say t2 ancient grudge or something to blow it up then you just waisted your god play for nothing.
If your Ugr dreadstill t2 nought is okay as you also have goyfs to fall back on.I personally have stuck with Ur from the beginning so im a little leary to just throw out a t2 nought with out any way to protect it.Its a sure fire way to end the game bad for you.Also i have been testing V-clique in place of a daze in Ur you would be surprised at just how good that card is.
The main reason that T2 Nought is godly is that even if the opponent has the right solutions in their deck to deal with it (StP, PtE, FoW, maybe Daze or even Ancient Grudge or Krosan Grip) they don't necessarily have those answers at hand and they'll only get to see 2 more cards after the Nought lands to remedy.
Having Nought and Stifle in the opening hand on the play is as broken as 90% of the broken combo openings out there and unlike them it's back by countermagic.
"Yes, as i already played a 61 card list i couldn't cut any stuff just for mox diamonds so they came on top of the list."
That's a joke, right? Playing 61 cards is incorrect. Playing 65 cards is very incorrect.
Oh come on 61 is just fine!
On 65 thought I agree it's wrong.
As for playing turn 2 nought blindly, without counters it's too risky. There are so many answers to it and you just stick with card disadvantage.
61 Cards is just wrong. Find a card to cut -- or cut a Brainstorm or Top or Ponder.
I'll usually run out a Dreadnought on the second turn if I don't know what I'm up against, but it's too hard to say for all scenarios. Do I have an alternative, like a Goyf? Or is the blind Nought my only option? Can I fire off a Brainstorm to find some backup? Or would I instead be passing? Did my opponent lead with a Mountain, or an Island?
There has already been the discussion on 60-61 cards btw..
Obviously talking of turn 2 nought is just too random as you pointed out.
In case I have a Tarmo in hand I would play it instead of Nought without having counters anyway.
Ohhhhh, c'mon guys i never said i play the moxes for fast Dreadnoughts, i figured out, that nearly every game i drop turn 1-2 Counterbalance/Standstill i am able to drive the game my way so, beside the argument 65 cards would never let me draw the correct cards - I don't even believe most of you ever practicly tested it, but as the +5 cards are:
+1 Standstill
+4 Mox
So i actually run 4 Counterbalance, 4 Standstill, 4 Dreadnought also the typical 3 typ 3 trinkets 4 brainstorm. I'am testing the list very often the last days and i really NEVER even feld like i should have run 60 cards to draw better, its just something that makes sense on a count from switching 60-70 cards (also every 61 or higher card will need a little higher mana course imo)
As i said personally prefer play dreadnought if i already have protection in play or can give it a standstill shell. If i know i a'm facing Aggro i normally drop Dreadnoughts even turn 2 but post boarding i often keep it here as same like on other matchups.
- I also didn't say that running 65 cards makes the deck better but i will keep it as the playstlye with moxes makes the deck a bit stranger for the opponent to improve (even on good opponents)
Any new developments Rood or JV?
i have actually been talking to rood a little.
V-cliquie in Ur has been working out extremely well any of you tried using it?
I'm going to make a new primer but I'll need some help to update it. I'm considering choosing some people with extensive knowledge of the deck and comparing all their testing results against the gauntlet to truly show the MUs.
Maybe select 3-5 people to test Ur and 3-5 for Ugr. We can select 3-5 different Ur lists and 3-5 different Ugr lists to see which lists of each type statistically do the best. I'll add up all the results and make a final MU result for Ur and Ugr after. I might also try to see if we can test other variants as well but Ur/Ugr have emerged as top dogs and it might be a waste of time for us.
UR Dreadstill creator and BRx WGD Combo Pioneer
Personally I've been playing Supreme Blue lately, just wanted to change things up a bit... so not really from me.
Team Hammafist
Does anyone out there have experience with testing Mother of Runes in this deck? I kinda want to throw together a list that runs Dreadnought and Mom, but I'm not really sure if it would be better in a Dreadstill style of shell, or if I should try to build a Fish type deck around the concept...
Any thoughts, anyone?
Bless your heart, we must consider Blue/White Tempo's strategy and win percentages in an entirely different deck thread. -4eak
Mom just doesn't seem like the type of route you want to take towards protecting this guy it still doesn't stop Krosan Grip (main enemy). It's also not a sure thing to protect him even against normal removal like StP...it's easily stifled or even Needled. It's also extremely bad on its own...you would have to play it in a Fish-Type shell with Bob/Goyf etc to make it more useful. It also is white..which statistically is one of the weakest variants to go for this deck.
UR Dreadstill creator and BRx WGD Combo Pioneer
When someone suggested a black version told him to test it so I used 3 of in Ur and in my tests it is just great , your look at your opponent hand and then nought+ stifle in your turn, then you just look at the scary face of your opponent trying to topdeck a grip.It also trades for a beater and take out their StP , PtE , KGrip.And I`m not counting the 3cc + CB which stops KGrip.
But since I'm developing Supreme Blue I did not played it in any tornament so I did not tested it in Dreadge , Aggro loam and Stax MUs.
Super Bizarros Team.
HUEHUEHUE BRBRBR. VIVA DILMA!!! EM NOME DE JESUS CRISTO!
I tried Lightning greaves instead of mother, worked pretty nice as dreadnought with shroud+haste is strong. but i didn't find things to cut.
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