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Thread: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

  1. #2681
    Aes Sídhe
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Hey all -- long time reader, (essentially) first time poster. I've always been a fan of trinket mage, and I play Oath in vintage, so I picked up Dreadstill about eight months ago now and haven't looked back. I've won a few local tournaments with it, but lately I've noticed a few problems with it. Here's my list, for comparison:

    [deck]
    4x Wasteland
    4x Mishra's Factory
    1x Tundra
    2x Volcanic Island
    4x Flooded Strand
    2x Polluted Delta
    3x Island
    1x Plains

    3x Trinket Mage

    4x Force of Will
    3x Spell Snare
    3x Daze
    4x Brainstorm
    4x Stifle
    2x Trickbind

    1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor

    4x Standstill
    3x Counterbalance

    2x Sensei's Divining Top
    1x Pithing Needle
    2x Engineered Explosives
    4x Phyrexian Dreadnought

    //Sideboard

    3x Firespout
    3x Spell Pierce
    1x Relic of Progenitus
    1x Engineered Explosives
    3x Peacekeeper
    4x Swords to Plowshares
    [/deck]

    Couple notes -- I have an Imperial Painter deck in my meta, as well as several decks that use Back to Basics, so I can't really get too greedy with my manabase (beyond what's standardly greedy for this deck). Contrary to the last several pages of discussion, I actually really like standstill right now. It does good work for me against everything except Vial decks. I absolutely hate my sideboard -- Firespout and Peacekeeper are both nice, and I can't really choose between them...but I dislike running them next to each other.

    The problems:

    1. I always seem to be boarding Counterbalance out. I'm pretty sure that the only deck that I'm not boarding it out for is the Burn deck. Everyone else seems to have some combination of expensive spells that I can't hit anyway, Vials, and the like. I have no problems with Counterbalance as a card, and I understand the purpose of protecting Dreadnoughts from things like Swords. That just never seems to happen for me, for some reason, though. At this point, I'm wondering if Counterbalance could be moved to the board.

    2. Aforementioned sideboard. That only part of my sideboard that I don't actively hate is the Spell Pierces. The Swords I recognize as a necessary evil for the Knight decks, and I don't especially have a problem with the 3rd E.E. or the Relic. As mentioned above, though, Firespout and Peacekeeper are really annoying me. I've toyed with adding a splash of black for Deathmark (the Zoo decks around here learned about perish a long time ago, and only play one dude at a time now). The problem there is that by adding an Underground Sea, I'm pushing my mana base even harder, when in fact I'd rather have more basics. I do like the ability to have my E.E.s hit four, though. Moat is a bitch.

    3. Bob. I tried Bob in here, and I rather liked it. The problem, again, is the mana base. I've also only been running two Tops in here for a while now, although I think that if I found room for Bob, I'd find room for a third. has anyone tried the Grixis coloration? At this point I'm almost thinking that I'd rather have black than white, as that enables Bob and Deathmark, and solves the Peacekeeper problem. I guess that I would switch the Swords into Deathmarks, and the Peacekeepers would become Propaganda, maybe. The only problem therein is that Swords answers a t1 Lackey, and Deathmark doesn't.

    Those are my main problems -- any thoughts and advice you guys can give is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

  2. #2682

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    You go through so much effort to play the color red for just 3 SB cards, yet you admit that you hate those cards anyway.

    Swapping red for black will solve pretty much every problem you describe, except the mana base part because you're shy on color producing land.
    Suddenly, Fluffy realized she wasn't quite like the other bunnies anymore.

    -Team R&D-
    -noitcelfeR maeT-

  3. #2683

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Got second today in a legacy tournament in Hamburg (34 people)

    Sorry for my horrific English in advance.^^
    I can't remember the matches all too good - so I hope the following description is more or less correct..

    List:

    I used the "Italian" list which has a better tribal matchup (thanx to Morgothian for the idea)

    4 Wasteland
    3 Scalding Tarn
    4 Polluted Delta
    3 Underground Sea
    3 Volcanic Island
    1 Badland
    2 Island

    Creatures

    3 Grim Lavamancer
    3 Phyrexian Dreadnought
    3 Dark Confidant
    2 Trinket Mage

    Spells

    4 Force of Will
    3 Spell snare
    3 Daze
    4 Stifle
    1 Trickbind
    3 Counterbalance
    3 Sensei's Divining Top
    3 Brainstorm
    2 Predict
    2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    1 Engineered Explosives

    Sideboard

    2 Perish
    2 Firespout
    2 Arc Trail
    2 Pyroblast
    2 Spell Pierce
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Basilisk Collar
    1 Relic of Progenitus
    1 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Nihil Spellbomb

    Round 1 (Probant): 2:0

    Game1: I keep his mana in check with Stifle for the fetchlands, Lavamancer for the Hierarch and Wasteland. I resolve Counterbalance and Top and keep cc1 and cc2 up all the time while I deny him more than two mana sources (as mentioned above). Trinket Mage and Lavamancer get there.
    Game 2: I go for mana denial again. Jace gets active and he never sees a second mana (win via Jace).

    Round 2 (Goblins Rg) 2:1

    Game 1: Turn 1 Brainstorm into turn 2 Dreadnought gets the job done.
    Game 2: I I keep a mediocre hand. Lackey and Wasteland/ Port beat me. I couldn't handle the second Lackey and never saw a sideboard card (Arc Trail, Firespout)
    Game 3: I go for fast Nought protected by Daze and a (blind) counterbalance which reveals a lucky Dark Confident and counters a Stingscourger.

    Round 3 (Spiral Tide) 2:0

    Game 1: I keep a hand full of counters and sneak a Grim Lavamancer in turn one. I go for a protected counterbalance turn four and deny every combo attempt while Lavamancer and Trinket Mage nibble away the opponent's lifepoints.
    Game 2: My opponent sided out the Timespiral combo and relies on Show and Tell/ Emrakul. I keep a hand with Jace and a few counters (Spell Pierce, Pyroblast) Stifle and Trickbind. Turn 4 he tries Show and Tell while I'm down to one mana (I tried to resolve a Counterbalance which got countered) I try to Pyroblast which gets forced. I bring my fourth land into play and he his Emrakul. On the following turn I make my landdrop and resolve a Jace through his Force on the back of Spell Pierce. Jace bounces Emrakul and my opponent is down to one 15 mana creature in his hand and 3 lands in play.^^ Three turns later I win with a Dreadnought.

    Round 4:(Enchantress) 2:1

    Game 1: He keeps a landlight hand and tries to enchant a nonbasic land with a wild growth (doesn't seem to be a good idea to me). Wastelands, Stifles and a Counterbalance screw him. I win with a late Dreadnought after he couldn't resolve a second spell after the Wild Growth.
    Game 2: A combination of Choke, Elephant Grass, Solitary Confinement and Replenish beats me in a really long game (I should have conceded the game for time reasons)
    Game3: Luckily I get a fast Naught with a counters and I manage to win before the time limit.
    few

    Round 5:(Zenith Probant) 2:0

    Game 1: He casts two forces one to counter a stifle targeting his fetchland and another one in order to resolve a Rox Warmonk through my Daze. He never recovers from the card disadvantage after I resolve a Jace. I take a few hits from the Warmonk, than I start racing with a Dreadnaught.
    Game 2: I keep a mana denial hand on the draw (generally not a good idea^^). Of course he punishes me with a first turn Hierarch. Fortunately his hand is more or less land light. I keep his board clean of land except for one tundra. Unfortunately he plays turn two Goyf and I start taking hits. The turning point in this match comes when he decides to let a Lavamancer resolve. I shoot his Hierarch and go down to 6 life due to Goyf beats. I go for Naught in my turn and his swords to plowshares brings me back to 18 life. I find a wasteland for his tundra with my Brainstorm. This blanks the Daze and Spell Pierces he is holding and allows me to resolve a Jace. The Planeswalker brings Tarmogoyf back to my opponent's hand and starts fatesealing away land draws. My opponent looses with one lonely Tropical island in play.(Can't remember how I finished sry)

    Round 6:(Aggro Bant) 0:2 (loss)

    Game 1: I keep a bad hand with Top, Spell Snare, Jace and four lands. Top gets countered and I get mana flooded. The game takes some time and he gets Stoneforge Mystic, Knight of the Reliquary, Goyf and Sword of Fire and Ice out which are sealing my fate.
    Game 2: I go for a Dreadnought protected by Counterbalance/ Top. He made the right choice and sided in Threads of Disloyalty which he has now for my Naught. Ironically I would have been able to dispose of my Dreadnought with Lavamancer/Basilisk Collar but an active Jitte foile my plan and I die to my dreadnought in the finals.

    Props: Nice and friendly opponents all along, the mana denial was awesome, got a Bayou, Predict instead of Standsti was ok (4th wasteland instead of the Factory turned out to be useful)
    Flops: fewer player than expected (the target was over 50)
    Last edited by Xiang; 03-13-2011 at 08:56 AM.
    I am the man who arranges the blocks

  4. #2684
    (previously Metalwalker)
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Xiang, that list looks incredible! What are your thoughts on Standstills replacing predicts in the Italian list? It seems that you should have almost little problem against Tribal with that list. I'd imagine even Vial cannot keep up with Lavamancer + manlands + wastelands when Standstill is in play (well it can but I'm addressing the worst-case scenario).
    Decks that I care about:
    Steel Stompy
    UWx Landstill
    Dreadstalker
    DDFT (10% practice)

    Mangara on MWS? You must be masochistic. -kiblast
    Quote Originally Posted by Gheizen64 View Post
    REB is a fantastic sideboard card against blue... in blue decks :/

  5. #2685
    Pray for Rain
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by Metalwalker View Post
    Xiang, that list looks incredible! What are your thoughts on Standstills replacing predicts in the Italian list? It seems that you should have almost little problem against Tribal with that list. I'd imagine even Vial cannot keep up with Lavamancer + manlands + wastelands when Standstill is in play (well it can but I'm addressing the worst-case scenario).
    He isn't running manlands?

  6. #2686

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    The list is pretty great against tribal. (I think it's actually in favor of Dreadstill/Stiflenaught as it doesn't play Standstill)
    The Matchup I have a bit of a problem against is Bant aggro with a low manacurve and Stoneforge Mystic (§$%$§%$ Sword of Fire and Ice).

    First: I'm not the creator of this list it is Morgothian, who posted it a few pages ago (I believe in January) but nobody noticed - so all credits belong to him - I just tested with his list and happened to love it.^^

    So I don't know if this are the thought why he cutted the Standstill but the ones I would do it.

    The idea of cutting the standstill is, that usually under the three cards of standstill is one card you don't need. Technically Predict reads (with Jace, Brainstorm, Top) 1U instant put a card you don't need from the top of your library into your graveyard draw 2 cards. The advantages are:
    1) You don't need to play the Manlands and you can fit in Lavamancer and Confidents as well as the fourth wasteland.
    2) It's an instant which makes Spell Pierce and Pyroblast better against Spring Tide, Doomsday and Show and Tell (obviously you don't have to tap mana for this during your turn).

    The main reason I like this configuration is that 1) makes your tribal matchup better you have Lavamancer main (in addition to Arc Trail, Firesprout in the side as well as Perish for Combo Elves and Pyroblasts against Folk) .Additionally it's awesome against Probant and decks with Green Sun's zenith and everything which has pushed its manacurve up in order to be not hit by counterbalance. You have Lavamancer for the little manaproducer (Hierarch, Dryad Arbor) and Confident for carddraw which hopefully gives you access to your 4 Wasteland, 4 Stifle, 1Trickbind,
    2 Jace manadenial plan. I usually mange to keep the mana available to the opponent at a total of 0-2 against Big Zoo, Countertop, Bant and the other "midrange" decks. Under these conditions the Counterbalance which was written off becomes good again. With Basilisk Collar and the Trinket Mages Lavamancers are pretty good against zoo too.

    All in all it's quite well positioned in todays metagame.(in my opinion at least^^)

    @Tammit67 no I'm not running Manlands^^
    I am the man who arranges the blocks

  7. #2687
    (previously Metalwalker)
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    No, yeah I agree that with Lavamancers maindeck, there is less need for manlands (you can't support URb manabase with 8 colorless if you plan on using lavamancers anyway). I wasn't clear as in would it be possible to fit in manlands and standstills with Morgothian's list? looking at it now, it's hard. His list is incredibly tight and with this setup, no Standstill no manlands is probably the best to go. Although turn 1 Lavamancers, turn 2 Standstills = good times :P

    The only thing I disagree with the list is 3 Brainstorms. I'll probably drop the Trickbind for the Brainstorm, which could potentially either dig 3 for Stifle or answers. Regardless, I'm excited to test this list out after next weekend (playing something else for this weekend).

    What's the reason for arc Trail over fire//Ice? I know Arc trail might have more utility, in hitting a wider variety of creatures, but being instant and flexible (pitching to FoW blah blah) can be as valuable as well. Why not just 4 Firespouts? I guess sometimes you don't want to hit your own dudes/bobs, but running 2 Sideboard doesn't really add logically to running 3-4.

    @Bant matchup: well you did give up the color white and StP so this is naturally going to be worse. It's always balancing GWx v.s. tribal decks that determine the white/red splash these days :P Unless you plan on giving up Bob/black, but that's not going to happen unless there's a million bolts/lavamancers flying around (will still run bob since he's the best card in this deck)
    Decks that I care about:
    Steel Stompy
    UWx Landstill
    Dreadstalker
    DDFT (10% practice)

    Mangara on MWS? You must be masochistic. -kiblast
    Quote Originally Posted by Gheizen64 View Post
    REB is a fantastic sideboard card against blue... in blue decks :/

  8. #2688

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    The problem with red is that the Merfolk match is still quite poor.

    Cards like Grim Lavamancer and Firespout and Arc Trail, while fine if they arrive perfectly on time with little resistance, do not help if times are tough. They do not answer a Coralhelm Commander with 2 counters on it. They do nothing against a board with 2 Lords. Kira is a serious problem. Cursecatcher and Spell Pierce are huge roadblocks for Firespout.

    And even if you do manage to squeeze through a Firespout, you kill your own Lavamancer. Ironically, casting Firespout is often one of the only ways to fill the graveyard to use Grim Lavamancer...

    Red is fine for combatting Goblins, and Elves is easy to handle with either red or white, but for the Merfolk match in particular we found white to be effective where red was lacking.
    Suddenly, Fluffy realized she wasn't quite like the other bunnies anymore.

    -Team R&D-
    -noitcelfeR maeT-

  9. #2689
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    I'll agree with Rico that at times, Red doesn't cut the mustard against Folk. But, the option of Blasts does give you significant bonuses against Blue-based control, however. Countering an opposing Counterbalance, Jace, Show and Tell, etc. can be huge, but you get the Fish problems. Simon (iirc) lost to Merfolk at the last BoM playing a UR list. Just goes to show you it's not great. White is much better in the Folk matchup, for sure.

    I wouldn't drop black, but I'm sure we all know that.

    Red is okay against Goblins, as Firespout is a bit better here. Not great, just better than not so great :P

    I was thinking about packing a bit more hate for Emrakul in the board. I felt saddened that I barely lost to Emrakul the other night even after Stifling an annihilator trigger. The fact that he flies makes me sad, at times.

    I know I discussed this before, but I'm going to be trying some Gilded Drakes, either in the main or board. Right now, I've been seeing little Fish and much Doomsday and Team America, along with Junk. Taking a Tombstalker or large Goyf with Drake seems okay to me. Of course, it also adds extra 2's to the CB curve, which can be a plus.

    Right now, I'm trying this list (again, bear in mind the meta at the moment):

    21 Lands

    4 Confidant
    4 Dreadnought
    2 Trinket Mage
    2 Gilded Drake

    3 CB
    4 Force
    4 Stifle
    4 Brainstorm
    3 Top
    1 Trickbind
    3 Daze
    4 Spell Pierce (again more combo than Zoo)
    1 EE
    1 Needle

    Board:
    1 EE/Pyroblast
    1 Needle/EE
    1 Crypt
    1 Spellbomb/Crypt
    2 Perish
    3 REB
    3 Firespout
    3 Diabolic Edict

    -Matt

  10. #2690
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    <triple post - sorry, source was being buggy>
    Only the heroic and the mad follow mountain goat trails.

  11. #2691
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Most here agree Bob belongs in the main. Has anyone tried pairing him with Goyf? Mr Legacy just feels right at home in this deck to me.
    1) adds another plan of attack to the deck. This deck has every card type bar tribal, meaning Goyf can get there on his own. We also have the draw/manipulation to draw multiples and overrun our opponent.
    2) is great in defense, stepping in to block for Bob/Jace

    Goyf has a certain oops I win % (nit unlike blowing someone out with wastelands). Also draws removal from Bob and Dreadnought. Anyways a sample list. If anyone has any experience/impressions I'd love to hear it.

    BUG Nought:
    4 brainstorm
    3 SDT
    1 needle
    1 EE
    4 CB
    4 goyf
    4 dark confidant
    2 jace
    2 trinket mage
    4 stifle
    3 dreadnought
    4 force of will
    3 spell snare

    4 underground sea*
    4 tropical island
    7 fetches*
    2 island*
    4 wasteland
    Only the heroic and the mad follow mountain goat trails.

  12. #2692
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    double post
    Last edited by TheSleeper; 03-19-2011 at 12:59 PM.
    Only the heroic and the mad follow mountain goat trails.

  13. #2693
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    sdematt, the best hate for Emrakul is Peacekeeper. She stops Emrakul, whether hardcast, Show+Tell, or Sneak Attacked. She also stops Progenitus and Fish, too.

  14. #2694
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    I'm trying to create a list for U/b I'd feel comfortable piloting in a large tournament. I feel like Go For the Throat might be pretty insane given it handles Knight, Goyf, Stalker, Bob etc etc. Here's a list I came up with

    // Lands
    4 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (2)
    1 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
    4 [R] Underground Sea
    3 [MPR] Wasteland
    1 [JGC] Flooded Strand
    4 [JGC] Polluted Delta
    4 [M10] Island (4)

    // Creatures
    3 [RAV] Dark Confidant
    2 [FD] Trinket Mage
    3 [JGC] Phyrexian Dreadnought

    // Spells
    1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
    4 [FNM] Brainstorm
    4 [JGC] Stifle
    3 [OD] Standstill
    3 [V09] Sensei's Divining Top
    3 [NE] Daze
    4 [AL] Force of Will
    3 [CS] Counterbalance
    3 [DIS] Spell Snare
    3 [MBS] Go for the Throat

    // Sideboard
    SB: 1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
    SB: 1 [CS] Counterbalance
    SB: 1 [10E] Pithing Needle
    SB: 1 [CH] Tormod's Crypt
    SB: 2 [10E] Crucible of Worlds
    SB: 3 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
    SB: 1 [SOM] Nihil Spellbomb
    SB: 1 [MBS] Go for the Throat
    SB: 2 [6E] Perish
    SB: 2 [LRW] Sower of Temptation

    I want to try to fit the 4th GFFT into the maindeck but I'm having a hard time cutting something. I tried to equip the board towards handling most anything.
    UR Dreadstill creator and BRx WGD Combo Pioneer
    Quote Originally Posted by xsockmonkeyx View Post
    EDIT: and Roodmistah. If Dreadstill sucks then he's been mopping up the East Coast with a "crap" deck and making you all look bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbi View Post
    "Protection from player" is like a joke ability from Unglued. Ban this crap from legacy asap.

  15. #2695

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Why not simply cut standstills? as far as I'm concerned, confidants are supposed to replace them, it frees up 2 spots (you probably will want a 4th confidant) and stabilizes your mana base. I think 3 standstills + 3 confidants might be a bit excessive. I also question running only 3 dreadnoughts with only 3 confidants (less creatures to eat STP etc). I've found that one of the main benefits with confidants is that you can actually manipulate the opponent to counter/remove your lesser threats in favor of dropping an un-counterable/removable dreadnought the turn after.

    This same argument could be applied to running goyfs as someone mentioned previously. I often have huge troubles with making the decision whether or not to wait for CB before dropping dreadnought vs fast aggro decks etc. Having additional creatures to eat their removal helps greatly in this situation where you more often than not dont have time to wait for CB before dropping buisiness down the table.

    for reference this is my list:


    // Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

    // Lands
    4 [MI] Island (3)
    4 [ON] Polluted Delta
    2 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
    1 [PT] Swamp (4)
    3 [R] Tundra
    2 [A] Underground Sea
    4 [TE] Wasteland

    // Creatures
    4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
    4 [JGC] Phyrexian Dreadnought
    2 [FD] Trinket Mage

    // Spells
    4 [IA] Brainstorm
    3 [CS] Counterbalance
    3 [DD2] Daze
    1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
    4 [AL] Force of Will
    2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
    3 [DIS] Spell Snare
    4 [SC] Stifle
    4 [4E] Swords to Plowshares
    2 [TSP] Trickbind

    // Sideboard
    SB: 1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
    SB: 1 [FD] Crucible of Worlds
    SB: 2 [PLC] Extirpate
    SB: 2 [6E] Perish
    SB: 1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
    SB: 2 [TE] Propaganda
    SB: 1 [HOP] Relic of Progenitus
    SB: 4 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
    SB: 1 [CH] Tormod's Crypt

    2 tops seems about right. My local meta is infested with goblins and other fast-aggro and propaganda has thus far been working wonders, especially against goblins. They either grip propaganda and then being unable to deal with dreadnought, or they grip dreadnought (which is even better), thus being unable to deal with propaganda. Other than that, I'm not overly satisfied with my SB, my controll MU could be a bit better. Maybe I should throw in a jace or two?

    I've been running dreadstill for about a year or so now and I can honestly say that this is the list I'm most comfortable with and been having most success with. Like I said, my local meta is quite aggro oriented and I'm still dreading the merfolk match up a bit (havent playtested enough though). The list is consistent and I have never looked back since I dropped standstills. Top + confidant is inherently a very powerful combo, while running 7 colorless lands, making your deck inconsistent, is in my opinon, not quite so.

  16. #2696
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    I´m playing a rather big tournament here in about 2 weeks, this is the list I am considering playing

    4 Force of Will
    4 Daze
    4 Stifle
    2 Divert
    4 Standstill
    4 Thoughtseize
    4 Brainstorm

    2 Phyrexian Dreadnought
    3 Dark Confidant
    3 Grim Lavamancer
    2 Umezawa’s Jitte
    2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

    4 Wasteland
    2 Bloodstained Mire
    1 Island
    1 Swamp
    1 Volcanic Island
    1 Badlands
    4 Scalding Tarn
    4 Polluted Delta
    2 Underground Sea
    2 Mishra’s Factory

    sideboard
    1 Lightning Bolt
    1 Echoing Truth
    2 Spell Pierce
    2 Submerge
    1 Perish
    2 Red Elemental Blast
    1 Null Rod
    2 Hydroblast
    2 Engineered Plague
    1 Sword of Fire and Ice

    Divert has been great in playtesting, against thoughtseize, diverting removal on dreadnoughts or lavamancers, etc. Always great if you 2 for 1 your opponent. Sideboard is what is giving me a lot to think about. Im lacking graveyard hate, but to be honest, against what? Dredge is pretty non existant in my meta, and reanimator also. Im expecting mainly Goblins, Merfolk, Rock etc. so I want to be prepared for that. What I like is the 4 stifles, so you are already out of the box prepared for ANT/Storm decks.
    3 Lavamancers allow me to cut the Factories to 2. Turn 1 lavamancer followed by turn 2 standstill is pretty ok. I think CB is not right for the current meta, 3cc drops being played more often. Trinket Mage is too slow imho.

    Any suggestions?

  17. #2697
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    2 Dreadnought seems like a low number.

    -Matt

  18. #2698
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackehehe View Post
    Why not simply cut standstills? as far as I'm concerned, confidants are supposed to replace them, it frees up 2 spots (you probably will want a 4th confidant) and stabilizes your mana base. I think 3 standstills + 3 confidants might be a bit excessive. I also question running only 3 dreadnoughts with only 3 confidants (less creatures to eat STP etc). I've found that one of the main benefits with confidants is that you can actually manipulate the opponent to counter/remove your lesser threats in favor of dropping an un-counterable/removable dreadnought the turn after.

    This same argument could be applied to running goyfs as someone mentioned previously. I often have huge troubles with making the decision whether or not to wait for CB before dropping dreadnought vs fast aggro decks etc. Having additional creatures to eat their removal helps greatly in this situation where you more often than not dont have time to wait for CB before dropping buisiness down the table.

    for reference this is my list:


    // Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

    // Lands
    4 [MI] Island (3)
    4 [ON] Polluted Delta
    2 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
    1 [PT] Swamp (4)
    3 [R] Tundra
    2 [A] Underground Sea
    4 [TE] Wasteland

    // Creatures
    4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
    4 [JGC] Phyrexian Dreadnought
    2 [FD] Trinket Mage

    // Spells
    4 [IA] Brainstorm
    3 [CS] Counterbalance
    3 [DD2] Daze
    1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
    4 [AL] Force of Will
    2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
    3 [DIS] Spell Snare
    4 [SC] Stifle
    4 [4E] Swords to Plowshares
    2 [TSP] Trickbind

    // Sideboard
    SB: 1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
    SB: 1 [FD] Crucible of Worlds
    SB: 2 [PLC] Extirpate
    SB: 2 [6E] Perish
    SB: 1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
    SB: 2 [TE] Propaganda
    SB: 1 [HOP] Relic of Progenitus
    SB: 4 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
    SB: 1 [CH] Tormod's Crypt

    2 tops seems about right. My local meta is infested with goblins and other fast-aggro and propaganda has thus far been working wonders, especially against goblins. They either grip propaganda and then being unable to deal with dreadnought, or they grip dreadnought (which is even better), thus being unable to deal with propaganda. Other than that, I'm not overly satisfied with my SB, my controll MU could be a bit better. Maybe I should throw in a jace or two?

    I've been running dreadstill for about a year or so now and I can honestly say that this is the list I'm most comfortable with and been having most success with. Like I said, my local meta is quite aggro oriented and I'm still dreading the merfolk match up a bit (havent playtested enough though). The list is consistent and I have never looked back since I dropped standstills. Top + confidant is inherently a very powerful combo, while running 7 colorless lands, making your deck inconsistent, is in my opinon, not quite so.
    I cut Stanstill a back when Survial was dominating and never looked back. Some players I respect like the card but I do not, especially when you face signifcant amount of Fish & Goblins.

    I would cut a Trickbind and either Spell Snare or Daze for the third Top and Pithing Needle. Needle on Vial or Pridemage is important.

    You can probably cut some amount of Spell Peirce as you already have a good game agaisnt combo and control. The Crucible is also questionable. This will open up your board for solutions to Merfolk & Gobblins. Peacekeeper with JAce is great against Merfolk. Plague against Goblins is your best bet short of a quick Dreadnought.

    Good luck
    Calls for banning are almost always the scrubs way out. Real men view a challenge as something to overcome, a puzzle to solve, an opportunity to be had, and the source of evolution.

  19. #2699
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Nonkel, why Jitte in your list? You don't have many creatures to carry it well. Perhaps consider some amount of Trinket Mage and include a Basilisk Collar. Combos with Grim Lavamancer and when equipped to a Dreadnought enables a massive life point swing.
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  20. #2700

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    I agree, i dont like jitte in that list. Its a great card but not much use here. you win in 2 swings with or without it. Divert seems fantasic i will be testing it

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