[Deck] UBGx Landstill

[Tacosnape]

Actually, in gets around Chalice for 1 against Dragon Stompy, assuming you keep Magus of the Moon from hitting the board. Also, the only reason why I run Runed Halos is because I run 14 White sources, which is the bare minimum to running cards with WW.

There's admittedly no way this would work in the manabase of a traditional 4C manabase. Double mana symbols are bad. I suppose Halo can help in other areas (It's fun on Tendrils), but in a traditional 4C build I'd rather just have Circle of Protection: Red and get a better Burn matchup in the process. Admittedly it might work with 14 White sources, because that's what initial Goblin decks ran to pull off casting Warchief. And while the double red for Chief problem reared it's ugly head a fair bit, it was still castable more often than not.

However, the list I presented still has many UW Landstill tendencies. If you want a genuine 4c Landstill list, I suggest looking into Taco's, because even though both our decks are board control decks, mine (or konsultant's) is less aggressive and takes longer to win.

Are you using the indefinite "you" or are you suggesting Taco's own list to himself? O.o

I am an indeed a deckbuilding inspiration to myself. Every time I read my posts, I feel my stomach flutter a little. I'd go into more details, but I might have to go have some Taco Time now.

[Citrus-God]

There's admittedly no way this would work in the manabase of a traditional 4C manabase. Double mana symbols are bad. I suppose Halo can help in other areas (It's fun on Tendrils), but in a traditional 4C build I'd rather just have Circle of Protection: Red and get a better Burn matchup in the process. Admittedly it might work with 14 White sources, because that's what initial Goblin decks ran to pull off casting Warchief. And while the double red for Chief problem reared it's ugly head a fair bit, it was still castable more often than not.

As dumb as it sounds, I never would've thought of CoP:R.... genius...

[landstill101]

There's admittedly no way this would work in the manabase of a traditional 4C manabase. Double mana symbols are bad. I suppose Halo can help in other areas (It's fun on Tendrils), but in a traditional 4C build I'd rather just have Circle of Protection: Red and get a better Burn matchup in the process. Admittedly it might work with 14 White sources, because that's what initial Goblin decks ran to pull off casting Warchief. And while the double red for Chief problem reared it's ugly head a fair bit, it was still castable more often than not.

Finally someone agrees with me that the manabase doesn't work, I've said that a couple of times but I get shut down. I guess ill just have to pm Taco my ideas, and if he agrees with me, have him post it, everyone listens to him.

[DuKeLiO]

You might as well skip the Island. Trust me. You're going to lose more games to having it when you don't need it than you'll win to having it when you do. Besides. Dragon Stompy can drop out Moons before you get a land drop, meaning you won't even be able to fetch the thing. The best thing to do with 4C Landstill builds as far as Blood Moon is just to accept that it rapes you and try to never let it hit the board. If you can stall until turn two you get Counterspell helping, and on turn three you can drop down a Deed and have an out.

With this list I have beated a lot of Dragon Stompy decks. With the Cunning->Slaughtered Pact, Cunning->Blue Elemental Blast, and the basics I have a record of X-1-1 in this matchup (where X is between 6 and 10, I cant remember the wins).

But I know than your build and mine are a very diferent aproach. However, I will change the 3 Engineered Plague for +3 Blue Elemental Blast beacuse here there are a mono red painter servant deck that is starting to be played and it is a very unfavorable matchup (8 moon efects, 6 Red Blast maindeck, and the 4 Grindstone + 4 Painter Servant).

[Tacosnape]

As dumb as it sounds, I never would've thought of CoP:R.... genius...

They sit in my box for times when they might be needed, though lately I've been doing better with the extra Blasts in SB instead of COP: Red. The blasts do better against stopping Blood Moons, and they're nice against Aggro Loam, keeping them off Burning Wish and Devastating Dreams while I try to Extirpate them off Loam. However, if Burn were rampant, COP: Red's still a worthwhile investment.

I guess ill just have to pm Taco my ideas, and if he agrees with me, have him post it, everyone listens to him.

This is an anomaly, I promise. Most of the time nobody ever listens to anyone, which is a strange sense of functional equality that keeps people posting in desperate hopes that the next post might make a difference.

[Pelikanudo]

Hello my friends , finally I got the tundras and then I can play the best deck¡¡¡
well I've read several landstill forums and seen several landstill decks and I really think the way to develop the deck is the DukeLio decklist way.
But I ve to add that I'd like to improve the number of responses this deck can have. I mean because landstill is a deck made of responses why to play 3 cunnin instead 4 and make the cunnin really scary ?.
A concret list of landstill I've seen carryes in the side even enlitgned tutor to get full access to the breaking enchantments and artifacts in main. I think this is a litle development because we can reduce the number of explosives and humilities
Supposing we play in this list at least 1 life , I've thoutgh in adding a single gifts ungiven as well in side to have full access to a powerfull and complete loam-engine combined with the E.E-acedemy.r engine.
Well keeping this things in mind I'll start with the list:

4 counterspell
4 FoW
4 Swords
4 Cunnin wish
4 Brainstorm
3/4 pernis
1 life from the loam
1 humility
1 Engineered explosives
2 decree of justice
1 Pact of negation
...
well part of the sideboard will be something like this:
1 gifst
1 enligthned tutor
...
and the lands configuration could be something like this: (prefer to add 25 total number of lands and take out 1 dragon substituited as card drawer by lonely and as win con. by nantuko monast.)

1 cephalid col.
1 academy ruins
1 lonely sandbar
1 nantuko monastery
1 cabal pit
4 mishras
1 nantuko monastery
1 wasteland.
1 tolaria west
...

Well with developing this strategy I'd like you my friends and mainly dukelio help me to fill the slots of the rest of cards or to change some ones..
Some cards I 've in mind to put in main are for example:
1 counterbalance, 1 gigapede, 1 senseis, 1 vedalken , X number of stifles
1 nitghmare's void, 1 pact of negation,1 vedalken, 1 masticore, 1 runed halo ...
well I've some questions:
the stifles slot in stanstill why is required? which is its main goal?

posdata: saludos duke, soy de lucas , paisano tuyo.

[raharu]

Errr, Cunning wish x4 is kinda clunky... Test it though, I'm interested to see how it turns out.

[DuKeLiO]

The problem is that if you play with so many tool lands, you will have a very weak manabase. If you want to play the 4 Cunning+Enlightned+Gifts, I don't think that is a bad idea, but you have to play the little "situational" cards posible:
+1 Academy Ruins
+1 Cunning Wish (If you want, but I believe they are too many)
-1 Wasteland
-1 whatever
SB:
+Gifts
-Blue Elemental Blast

I have tested Enligthned tutor, and I don't like it. Almost never I went for it with Cunning Wish. I believe than the minitoolbox is the way to go, leaving space for good cards against bad pairings.

[Pelikanudo]

well this is the list from which i intend to develop one with more responses:
1 Eternal Dragon
4 Brainstorm
4 Counterspell
3 Cunning Wish
4 Force of Will
2 Stifle
4 Swords to Plowshares

2 Decree of Justice
1 Life from the Loam

2 Humility
3 Pernicious Deed
4 Standstill


2 Engineered Explosives
land [24]

4 Flooded Strand
1 Island
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Plains
2 Polluted Delta
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Tropical Island
4 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
2 Wasteland


Sideboard:
4 Meddling Mage
1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Dismantling Blow
4 Extirpate
1 Pulse of the Fields
1 Slaughter Pact
3 Engineered Plague

Analisying the mana base :15 total blue mana producers, 13 white mana prod,
9 black mana, 9 green.
well, have a look to this landstill deck and its mana producers in this link:

http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=13184

Well this list has Blue:16, white :10, black :9, green: 9

well the base I intend to play is as follows:
1 lonely sandbar
1 tolaria west // this land is fantastic giving us full acces to E.E, wathever
//kind of land and pact
1 wasteland
1 nantuko monastery
1 academy ruins
4 mishras
4 flooded strand
2 polluted d
4 tundras
3 tropical
3 underground sea // this slot can be -1= +1 cabal pit. I'd probably will try
//the list with the c. pit . In mirrors is not as bad to kill the mages¡

// cards lands we miss: coliseum cephalid: we really do not want to sacrifice lands. cabal pit: we have the removal creature spot of the academy ruins. but we can substitute 1 underground by 1 cabal pit in order to get the same black mana sources because we have enough blue mana producers.

blue: 18, white: 10 , black: 9, green: 9.
The differents are that mainly we dont carry no one basic. who needs to run basics?, ritgh well face magus on the moon but isn't this deck a deck doenst carry response to that? :swords,c.spell, pernis,E.E,cunnin->pact, ...
Another point is that our mana white producer is slower thatn duke list. but its the same than the list from the URL.

Well, having discussed the mana base now I'll put the main deck:
4 FoW
4 Counterspell
4 brainstorm
4 standstill
3 pernicius deed
4 cunnin wish
4 swords to plowshares
1 humillity
1 E.E
2 decree of justice
1 life from the loam

--from here 32 cards we need 3 slots more: Which I do not know which cards fit in here. Well these 3 slots can be multiple choices :

1 counterbalance
1 senseis
1 pact of negation.
OR
1 pact of negation
1 isochron scepter
1 vedalken shackless
OR
2 stifles
1 pact of negation.
...

I need advice about this multiple choices. I admit suggestions.
Well the side will be something like this :

2 Meddling Mage // I'm sorry to take 2 of them out but I need 2 slots

1 Krosan Grip //I prefer this card instead the Dismantling Blow.althoutgh this
//card can substitute a draw slot. but in here we have gifts.
1 gifts ungiven
1 enlitghned tutor
1 stifle // having 4 slots as a 4 mana cost stifle in main is a development vs
//combo
4 Extirpate // no one out ¡¡
1 Pulse of the Fields // we will never loose to burn¡
1 Slaughter Pact
3 Engineered Plague // we'll have 7 option to get a single plague in 2nd game
//vs gobbos thanks to E.Tutor

[DuKeLiO]

Maybe you do not down the mana color count a lot, but you have removed the basic lands, Dragon (isn't a mana source but he is a good fixer) and you have replaced them for two CIPT blue lands. You aro exchanging the most stable mana sources for a very unstable ones. I wait you will go to play on a very low wasteland meta.
Also with only 4 Tundras it will be so hard to play Humility. I believe you are trying that your deck does too much.
Also in sideboard I believe Meddling Mage are more important than Engineered Plagues in any meta without a lot of goblins, and with these manabase it will be too dificult to play against Goblins.

[Pelikanudo]

you mean that this list :

http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=13184

that has got the first place in a top 8 that includes at least other 3 decks with wastelands is simply a stroke of luck. I don't think so.
I also add that this list carryes NO one basic.
and what about the other three slots I have to fill?
what cards do you suggest.
I suppose you'll suggest me at least 2 stifles+ x card ritgh?
what changes do you suggest to the list of lands maybe -1 tropical+ savanah?

I have a question Why the hell the play play stifles in a standstill deck ? what is its main goal? which is its porpose? I can understand playing a nonbasics landstill and playing stifle main. buut if this is the issue, why not to play Tithe instead?

[Pelikanudo]

Well I have another important question about how to play a mirror between 2 identical landstill decks: what are the key spells? if to side mages or not?
will humility be a card to take out?
Anyway this is a match up that is played using your intuition.

[Mister Agent]

There are a few points I do not like about the 2 wasteland/2 stifle configuration.

1. Your probably better off running a playset of each if you want to capitalize on the tempo disruption. Other then that they can be clunky and less effective.

2. You can actually achieve a similar task by just running tolaria west with a singleton wasteland. As well as you have cunning wish into extirpate which can supplement brilliantly with wasteland.

3. Also with more then one wasteland your actually going to throw your manabase off balance by running more colorless sources as well as making critical land drops.

4. Although, I don't like the stifle + wasteland package in a more control style landstill since your clock is too slow to take advantage of the disruption. However, I would not mind the configuation in Tombstalker landstill or even in Bardo's Vorosh list. But then again they can be much more aggressive then usual landstill decks.

As for the landstill mirror your main tools are decree of justice and as well as cunning wish for extirpate. Also obviously land recursion with wastelands can add a distinct touch as well.

[Citrus-God]

There are a few points I do not like about the 2 wasteland/2 stifle configuration.

1. Your probably better off running a playset of each if you want to capitalize on the tempo disruption. Other then that they can be clunky and less effective.

I disagree. You dont really need to run a playset of each or an amount of 6-8 of a combination of each just to capitalize on the Tempo disruption. Honestly, it should seriously be eschewed and just concentrating on protecting the mana base. So you run Stifles to protect your mana base and disrupt combo. If you're to disrupt mana, then it is a side-function.

2. You can actually achieve a similar task by just running tolaria west with a singleton wasteland. As well as you have cunning wish into extirpate which can supplement brilliantly with wasteland.

This seems reasonable.

3. Also with more then one wasteland your actually going to throw your manabase off balance by running more colorless sources as well as making critical land drops.

The maximum amount of colorless-mana sources I believe everyone should run is 7. No more than that. 8 is a maybe....

4. Although, I don't like the stifle + wasteland package in a more control style landstill since your clock is too slow to take advantage of the disruption. However, I would not mind the configuation in Tombstalker landstill or even in Bardo's Vorosh list. But then again they can be much more aggressive then usual landstill decks.

Personally, I think Stifle is trash in Tempo-oriented Landstill decks. I personally believe that Duress/Thoughtseize performs this function better.

As for the landstill mirror your main tools are decree of justice and as well as cunning wish for extirpate. Also obviously land recursion with wastelands can add a distinct touch as well.

A card I am very fond of when playing Landstill has always been Eternal Dragon. Just recurring it Monowhite Control style is just awesome. You also run 8 Plains, so just recurring EDragon as an engine is amazing in the mirror.

[Mister Agent]

I disagree. You dont really need to run a playset of each or an amount of 6-8 of a combination of each just to capitalize on the Tempo disruption. Honestly, it should seriously be eschewed and just concentrating on protecting the mana base. So you run Stifles to protect your mana base and disrupt combo. If you're to disrupt mana, then it is a side-function.

Yeah, you can pretty much achieve the same goals with running a more stable manabase with land recursion. As well as having more outs to whatever your opponents play like hard counters, humility, and etc.

Personally, I think Stifle is trash in Tempo-oriented Landstill decks. I personally believe that Duress/Thoughtseize performs this function better.

Well I was just referring to previous configuration strategies that have been successful in tournaments of the past. I am not sure if Duress/thoughtseize is the right call for tempo style landstill decks because it can depend on the deck and also the player.

A card I am very fond of when playing Landstill has always been Eternal Dragon. Just recurring it Monowhite Control style is just awesome. You also run 8 Plains, so just recurring EDragon as an engine is amazing in the mirror.

Well thats why I don't really like running more then a singleton wasteland especially if you have tolaria west to back it up.

Here is DIF's 4c Cunning Landstill build that I would suggest:

Lands
1 Academy Ruins
4 Flooded Strand
1 Island
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Plains
1 Polluted Delta
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Tropical Island
4 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
1 Wasteland
2 Windswept Heath
1 Tolaria West

Creatures
1 Eternal Dragon

Spells
4 Brainstorm
4 Counterspell
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Cunning Wish
2 Decree of Justice
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Force of Will
2 Humility
1 Life from the Loam
4 Pernicious Deed
4 Standstill
4 Swords to Plowshares

Sideboard
1 Blue Elemental Blast
3 Engineered Plague
1 Enlightened Tutor
3 Extirpate
4 Meddling Mage
1 Pulse of the Fields
1 Seed Spark
1 Slaughter Pact

I like DIF's list because incorporating cunning wish in a 4c landstill build is just stellar in my opinion. The deck's manabase is also well balanced and it runs quite smoothly for a 4 color deck. It's also one of the most flexible landstill lists I have played in awhile.

[DuKeLiO]

I don't use Stifle to have a tempo advantage, I only use it to not loss tempo against my oponents. Also it disrupt combo as Anti-American said.
Also wasteland are here to destroy some problematic lands like Volrath's Stronghold, but I rarely go for the Life from the Loam->Wasteland lock. Only if my oponent is playing another 4C deck without basics I go for this route, and only to color screw him.
I don't like the Tolaria West/Wasteland split. Tolaria West is a very bad land to play it beacuse the CIPT. I've played a lot of times Standstill in my second turn without more lands in hand, and if one of them is a CIPT land, this will be an horrible situation. Also I saw than DIF are running 25 lands, than helps against the mana denial, but Stifle turns out a tempo loss into a tempo win with the land drop lost for my oponent, and a lot of times a wasteland in one of my lands is a time walk for my oponent (for example with creatures attacking me , or simply with a Aether vial in the table).

[Mister Agent]

Well if storm combo is prominant in your meta then stifle would be a good call in landstill. Otherwise, I don't see how it would be better then running other utility cards in stifle's place. Considering if you have a stable manabase/land recursion you won't have to worry about protecting your lands.

I also don't think tolaria's tempo loss is necassarily a good reason to not to include it. Especially if your running 25 lands which enables tolaria west to operate under solid efficiency. I mean tolaria's utility function of either fetching for any land or engineered explosives negates it's drawback substantially.

[LinkXwing]

I also don't think tolaria's tempo loss is necassarily a good reason to not to include it. Especially if your running 25 lands which enables tolaria west to operate under solid efficiency. I mean tolaria's utility function of either fetching for any land or engineered explosives negates it's drawback substantially.

However, the fact that you can only transmute as a sorcery is itself a HUGE drawback and is singlehandedly the reason I don't run Tolaria West anymore. I had it in the deck for months, but the fact that it taps me out or comes into play tapped screws over my early game enough to warrent not having it. The only time it really shines is late-game where I can afford to tap 1UU plus still have counterspell/swords/brainstom/FoF mana open (and/or mana to activate a deed/E.E. in play). In that special case, I think I can trust my draw package to find me the 3 or 4 of that I really need.



On a completely seperate note, at the Dual for Duals I ran the sideboard of:

4 Chill
4 B.E.B.
4 Extirpate
3 Tormod's Crypt

and absolutely LOVED it all tournament long and at all my playtest sessions. Four-color Landstill for the most part is a board control deck that essentially just packs the best cards in the format. The only truly bad matchups I forsee is VERY fast aggro + Burn, strait Burn, and graveyard based/graveyard recursion decks (i.e. anything that truly abuses loam or witness).

I felt having only 4 cards to deal with Ichirod wasn't going to cut it so I ran 4 Tormod's Crypt and 4 Leyline for a while. Well, that beats the crap out of Ichorid, but that doesn't do crap versus anything with witness or loam so I swapped the Leylines for Extirpate which is not as solid in the Ichorid matchup, but usually 8 hate cards of almost any variety will be enough.

Then I looked at all those decks packing lots of burn and/or Blood Moon. I came to the same conclusion that I wanted 8 pieces of hate to actually stand a chance games 2 and 3. As a bonus, Chill absolutely is a wrecking ball against burn/sleigh and will help slightly against any deck accelerating into Empty the Warrens. Chill doesn't do much against goblins, but my matchup isn't that bad to begin with, so I can live with only BEB against them with my other board control cards.

I don't believe the maindeck of Uwgb Landstill really has any other worthwhile matchups to sideboard for unless I'm just randomly forgetting something. (Edit: Ok, fuck it, I'm going to lose the Solidarity matchup.)

[klaus]

4 Chill
4 B.E.B.
4 Extirpate
3 Tormod's Crypt

I don't believe the maindeck of Uwgb Landstill really has any other worthwhile matchups to sideboard for unless I'm just randomly forgetting something.

Stax games can be frustrating without additional artifact hate and Geddon protection (M. Mage).

Spanish Inquisition, Fetchland Tendrills, Iggy Pop, Cephalid Breakfast and decks packing Back to Basics also come to mind.

[LinkXwing]

Stax games can be frustrating without additional artifact hate and Geddon protection (M. Mage).

Spanish Inquisition, Fetchland Tendrills, Iggy Pop, Cephalid Breakfast and decks packing Back to Basics also come to mind.

Between Counterspell, Force of Will, and Pernicious deed I've never had trouble with Mono-W Stax. In the first 5-8 turns there really has never been more than 1 lock piece that's needed to be removed in playtest games. I can work under Trinisphere, tabernacle effects, smokestack, supression field, ghostly prison, hell even a single armageddon, just not all of them at once.

I have not tested against Spanish Inquisition and have never seen it in action so I can't comment on it.

I have also not playtested Fetchland Tendrils or Iggy Pop since I removed stifles and they have added Orim's Chant so I can't comment on the matchup there, but Extirpate still seems mighty savage.

I have yet to lose a match to any Breakfast list in playtest sessions or tournament matches with Landstill, we just completely pwn their board and pwn thier graveyard too in games 2 and 3.

Back to Basics is mighty savage against any 4 color deck. However, there are still 8 counters and 7 ways to remove it if for some reason it does resolve. I still do run 3 basics and 6 fetches in my list.