[Deck] UBGx Landstill

[DragoFireheart]

Well, thanks for the honesty then =]
There is no update on the version. I tested with Strix in place of Standstill, and didn't liked it, and put 2 Extirpates on the side in place of 1 Nihil and 1 Goyf. On the MD I'd like to add a 3rd Wasteland, and probably the 4th Goyf, but don't know what to take out.

Why didn't you like Strix? He seems like a good choice: pitches to FoW, cantrips, can block.

[ScatmanX]

Why didn't you like Strix? He seems like a good choice: pitches to FoW, cantrips, can block.

My manabase was worse than the normal one (taking Viridia's one here), with 2 Bayous, and only 23 lands. Sometimes I was just unable to cast it T2. The clock it provided was glacial, and it never really killed anything. And I really like Standstill. The subgame it provides is awesome, and fun, and is a much more skill intensive card, that can lead to more wins if played correctly.
The 'can block' argument is ok, but the deck has 6 spot removals, + Snapcaster, and Goyfs that do that part really well to.

[eldpojken]

Hello fellow wizards, hunks and honeys.

I'm newly regged as a member on The Source but I have been lurking for a while. I have also played Magic since Ice Age so I have been around the block so to speak.

During the last couple of months I have been mostly playing different versions of Miracles but recently I've taken interesting in moving to a BUGStill list as I am dissapointed in Miracles ability to close out games, even with RIP/Helm. I do love me some Sensei's Divining Top tho but hopefully the raw card draw of Standstill can fill the void in my heart.

Anyways I've been following the discussion here lately and I am liking the path Viridia and Chimera have taken the deck by taking advantage of Snapcaster and Clique (both which I disliked quite a bit in Miracles) since they synergize so well with the manland plan, both for killing the opponent and attacking Planeswalkers (which I had trouble with in Miracles after cutting Clique).

My question is about Baleful Strix though. I like the card but I'm not sure if I like it in this archetype. It would be interesting and educational to give a more detailed thought process behind your decision to play 4 (!) of them in your list Viridia and Chimera. Which matchups do you feel you need them the most and is the functionality of them really what this deck needs?

From what I understand and theorize about, the decks biggest drawback is basically having enough mana to perform it's gameplan and because of that (specifically colored sources) I'm currently looking at only 3 Mishra, but maybe the 4th is so strong that another colorless land is worth the slot since they synergize so well with eachother? I'm looking to run 23 lands fwiw and 2 Tar Pit atm. General thoughts on number of lands and number of man lands (both Mishra and Tar Pit) everyone?

With this general idea that the deck performs very well in long games I have tailored my list to handle the early game as good as possible, playing a generally lower curve than most lists I've seen. Also I am a big fan of 4 FoW maindecks and a healthy bluecount (anything below 22 I feel is being greedy and I'm not truly comfortable without 23+).

Here is my current list for reference:

CREATURES (5)
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique

ENCHANTMENTS (6)
3 Standstill
3 Pernicious Deed

SORCERIES (6)
2 Ponder
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize

INSTANTS (17)
4 Brainstorm
2 Disfigure
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
1 Counterspell
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Force of Will

PLANESWALKERS (3)
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

LANDS (23)
3 Mishra’s Factory
2 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
3 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
2 Island
1 Swamp

SIDEBOARD
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Duress
1 Thoughtseize
2 Hydroblast
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Krosan Grip
1 Perish
2 Engineered Plague
1 Cranial Extraction
1 Batterskull

The Cranial Extraction is for Punishing Fire specifically as I feel that card must be very hard to beat and I'm not keen on messing up my mana base with Wastelands and Loam in the board.
I am a bit worried about big creatures/permanents without any Pulses maindeck though Thoughtseize does cover some of that ground and I am playing 4 FoW and a Counterspell (which maybe should be more though I feel it puts strain on the manabase and is best in the mid/lategame, which is the reason I'm playing Spell Snare).

Also another question I have is if anyone has tested the merits of Preordain vs Ponder in controlling lists like this that isn't looking for specific combo pieces? I noticed Hetrick played Preordain over Ponder in his Esper list recently and I have tried Preordain in the past and been relatively happy with them but am still undecided.

So, that was a lot of questions and thoughts. Anyone feel free to give your input and reasoning and I would really like to hear some extra words from Viridia or Chimera regarding your list.

Thanks!

[sdematt]

I was playing discard in the main for information, but I was sorely missing a Maelstrom Pulse. I ended up cutting the maindeck discard for Spell Snares and Pulse.

Snare is REALLY good right now. It hits a ton of stuff, especially if you're on the draw. Hymn, SFM, Goyf, etc. I know Chimaera is running Pierce, but in my meta I want Snare (especially for the 70 card mirror, yes, this is a thing). Then breaking your Standstill with their Standstill is both the best and worst feeling.

I've been loving the Cliques, I have to say.

As for Strix, I wouldn't trade it for anything. Drawing a card and either baiting removal, protecting Planeswalkers, or pinging is quite decent. It works nicely when you have a Standstill and they have stuff on board, since it won't be able to attack and you just leverage Standstill like a champ.

-Matt

[ScatmanX]

Also another question I have is if anyone has tested the merits of Preordain vs Ponder in controlling lists like this that isn't looking for specific combo pieces? I noticed Hetrick played Preordain over Ponder in his Esper list recently and I have tried Preordain in the past and been relatively happy with them but am still undecided.

I'm no control expert, but in my view, Ponder has more advantages. Not only because it digs deeper (and it is relevant lots of times), but also because you can plan your following turns better, because it gives you more information about your next draws. I'ts a subtle advantage, but can very well give you enough information to provide a line of play that otherwise you'd not have been able to see, that can lead you to winning the game.

[eldpojken]

matt: Yeah I kinda want 1 pulse as it is very versatile and also Snappable but at the same time I really want efficient spells to tide me over into the midgame where my powerful gamebreakers like Deed, Jace and Standstill pull ahead and a 3 mana sorcery (especially relevant in my permission/flash heavy list) that in most cases probably only destroys stuff that a Decay, Disfigure or Deed itself could've handled is not really that exciting. This is the reason I have 1 in the sb and maybe should have another to bring in when it actually handles threats that need a different spell than the more efficient options, like vs Planeswalker decks.

I agree on Spell Snare being nice, especially considering it can be relevant long into the game (compared to say Spell Pierce, although I think Pierce is really good atm and I even played 4 of them in my combo centric RIP/Helm Miracle list even though that is a longgame deck). I like the 2/2 split between Snare and Pierce to give flexibility to Snapcaster and being good vs different types of threats usually. I do however really like 1 mana discard spells for the information as you said which (since Magic in general is very much a game of incomplete information) really works well with a heavy permission suite as you will know better what to save your counterspells for. It also synergies well with allowing yourself to play Standstill more consistently since they are cheap ways to remove the potential threats that can come down before Standstill, which is the same reason I like Disfigure and Spell Snare and why I don't want to overload on Decays (or Pulses for that matter).

I'm not that keen on Strix though since out of the reasons you stated only the protecting Planeswalker part feels really relevant. They seem kinda slow for what they do and in the MU's where a good blocker is really necessary you might not even have time to make use of that extra card. The color contraints and the fact that it costs 2 makes it seem slow and really clunky in a lot of situations, especially if you play 4 and get multiples in MU where they aren't amazing. Oldschool cycling at sorcery speed is not really where I want to be in Legacy, though that is why I am asking those of you who have played them a lot so that I can get a better sense in what situations you feel Strix does a so much better job than other potential spells filling similar roles (like Disfigure or Decay) that it is worth the potential downsides.


Scatman:
Yeah those are ofc the advantages of Ponder but when you have Ponder piles with 2 bad cards and 1 good that you really need it becomes kinda awkard while with Preordain you get to keep the good one and get rid of a bad one without having to shuffle. Now ofc you have no information about the 3rd card which makes the comparisons hard to evaluate which is why I am asking for input if anyone has tried them extensively. For now I'm sticking with Ponder.

[Viridia]

Hi! More Landstill Players! yay!

Now, onto the more improtant stuff.

Chimera and i have been playing with Strix for a couple of months now and it is just such a great card. For 2 mana, it cantrips and stops nearly every attacking creature dead in its tracks. All while also pithing to FoW in the matchups you don't really need them :D

Yes, our love for that card is great, as Matt said, it is superawesome under a Standstill, because even if they have a threat on the board, especially one you cannot kill with manlands (think Goyfs, or KotR tutoring Wastelands) it will always stop it from attacking, which means they will have to break your Standstills at some point.

It also fits the Curve in that perfect spot vs Aggro, especially if you don't have an Abrupt Decay ready to get rid of their stuff.



We've also been experimenting with discard in the mainboard, but you only really want it vs Combo. Vs everything else more Pierces/Removal would be better, so we ended up putting them back into the board :)


Spell Snare is always a good option, Chimera and i just never found it that needed, especially since we've started playing Dimir Charms, as the only 2 drops we're really scared of are Hymn to Tourachs, most other stuff gets handled by Abrupt Decay and Pernicious Deed very well.

Cantrips are a very odd thing in control decks. Obviously, Brainstorm is amazing, because you get to shuffle away the matchup specific cards if you don't really need them in that match, however all other cantrips (Ponder/Preordain mainly) "only" fix your draws, and often aren't even very good at it. With the 4 Brainstorms, the massive CA of Strix/Standstill/Snapcaster/Jace and Jacestorming along the way, we never felt the need for more cantrips, as they take the spots of actual answers ;)


Chimera will probably hop in and fill the gaps in my answers, considering it's past midnight here and my brain might not be functioning superwell :P

[eldpojken]

Thanks for the response!

Regarding Strix:
While I understand everything you are saying, my question is wether you actually feel that you need that ability block so often that it makes the card amazing. Now obviously since you have played with it for so long and not changed it there must be merit to it but my intiution is telling me that the effect of the blocker isn't really that much better than just playing a "smoother" card like something that costs less and/or is instant speed, etc. As for being good under Standstill, I can see that but isn't that kinda slow considering you need to play out Strix for 2, have it live until your next turn probably and then still have to make sure that it doesn't die with Standstill on the stack and then being forced to break your own Standstill?

Maybe I am annoying but some further elaboration would be really helpful as it is the biggest change from my list to yours I think. :)

Regarding discard:
The reason I like it is because I like to stay flexible and not have a superstrong game 1 vs certain decks while being a lot weaker to say combo. For that reason I like these 1 mana discard spells (aside from the information factor ofc) since they still are pretty good in non-combo MU's, and also ofc Snappable. I think I maybe should go 2 Inquisition, 2 Thoughtseize main to not be to hurt by them vs more aggressive decks, especially if I hope to SNap them back, but for now I went with 3 Thoughtseize since I cut my Pulse to have some answers to biggert threats like Tombstalker.

Regarding Spell Snare:
Initially I had them in my list, the cut them for a while, before putting them back in. I cut them for the same reasons you did, thinking that especially Deed probably solves all the things you want to counter with it usually. But then I got more and more concerned with the mana and the curve of the deck and feeling like you can't always rely on the more expensive spells to deal with stuff, especially if you want to be able to drop Standstill consistently. Snare seems really nice on the draw too and is ofc a very efficient Snapcaster target. Testing will tell how I feel about them but right now it seems they hit a lot of the meta aside from Sneak and Show mostly.

Regarding cantrips:
By playing 3 Snapcaster with the 4 Brainstorms, as well as the amount of draw the deck has compared to almost all Legacy decks perhaps no more cantrips are needed but coming from playing a lot with Sensei Top I have always been skeptical of playing control decks with only 4 Brainstorm as fixing since the early parts of the game really need to go smoothly for you to ever reach enough mana and board stability to let your superior late game take over. Also Snapcaster becomes even more flexible with additional cantrips to Brainstorm. Now I do agree that I wouldn't want too many and 1 or 2 feels like the best number, 3 already feels like pushing it but I am not sure. Last summer I was playing a Bug Control list without Standstill and fewer Deeds and I had 4 Brainstorm and 4 Preordain with a couple Snapcaster in that list and it felt really consistent at finding the pieces it needed. The problem with that list was mostly that I was winning with Tarmogoyf which was hard in any StP meta so I abandoned that deck. Anyways, need to test this as well but for now my gut tells me a couple of Ponders should be good. They also help cut the curve down a bit.

General thoughts:
Perhaps I am reducing the raw power of the deck, which is the reason it will be strong in the lategame, by trimming the curve and playing more efficient spells compared to powerful ones like Strix, but at the same time I think a lot of the decks power comes from Deed, Jace, Standstill and the manlands primarily and I'm not really playing fewer of those than most lists (I really like 3 Standstill and 3 Jace as opposed to more of them as having draws with too many of these cards and too few spells to handle early threats can cause you to not be able to play Standstill at all and with the draw from Standstill finding a Jace should be easier than for say Esper. 6 slots total seem like a good number, allowing you to find at least one, especially with 2 Ponders, while not risking having clunky draws too often).

I really think this deck is very powerful, well positioned right now, flexible as hell and really rewards good knowledge of the format and tight play. Let us keep the discussion going to all learn even if we disagree about card choices! :)

[ween]

I'm concerned that i might not have my numbers of things right.

I sort of converted my BUG Deck that had Ancestral Visions, by swapping in 3 Standstills, a Life from the Loam, and 2 Creeping Tar Pit.

In doing so, i kept my creature package of 4 Tarmogoyf, 4 Deathrite Shaman and 3 Vendilion Clique. No Snapcaster Mage.

With no Snapcaster Mage, i think my 24 lands might be fine, but i find i'm really soft to aggresive decks still, even UR Delver causes me a headache. Only removal is 4 Abrupt Decay, so perhaps something else there might do the trick, but i refuse to use Dismember, for some reason that card just offends me.

I love Baleful Strix, but the four copies i have are in my UB Tezzeret Stax deck, so maybe those are the answer and i just need another 4 copies..

[sdematt]

...Or move them between the two decks or run Disfigure as your removal slots 5 and 6?

-Matt

[ween]

...Or move them between the two decks or run Disfigure as your removal slots 5 and 6?

-Matt

I like having many decks built at once for my friends to use, downside is multiple playsets of things like Wasteland and Force are costly.

But yeah, perhaps the discard could become Disfigure. I might need to make one of my Trops a Bayou to really solidify the early black if that's the case.

[Chimera87]

Hoo boy, lots to write I think.

First of all: Awesome to see new LandStill players that are apparently also willing to actually learn how to play the deck... some of the plays I have seen on footage... I will try to answer most of the questions and remarks from the previous posts. Some might have already been answered by Viridia.

Eldpojken

My question is about Baleful Strix though. I like the card but I'm not sure if I like it in this archetype. It would be interesting and educational to give a more detailed thought process behind your decision to play 4 (!) of them in your list Viridia and Chimera. Which matchups do you feel you need them the most and is the functionality of them really what this deck needs?
----
I'm not that keen on Strix though since out of the reasons you stated only the protecting Planeswalker part feels really relevant. They seem kinda slow for what they do and in the MU's where a good blocker is really necessary you might not even have time to make use of that extra card. The color contraints and the fact that it costs 2 makes it seem slow and really clunky in a lot of situations, especially if you play 4 and get multiples in MU where they aren't amazing. Oldschool cycling at sorcery speed is not really where I want to be in Legacy, though that is why I am asking those of you who have played them a lot so that I can get a better sense in what situations you feel Strix does a so much better job than other potential spells filling similar roles (like Disfigure or Decay) that it is worth the potential downsides.
----
As for being good under Standstill, I can see that but isn't that kinda slow considering you need to play out Strix for 2, have it live until your next turn probably and then still have to make sure that it doesn't die with Standstill on the stack and then being forced to break your own Standstill?

I think this is the biggest decision in LandStill builds right now. This little flyer seems like it's relatively bad in a deck that is glacially slow, i.e. BUG LandStill. However, the gaping holes that this dude fills really need to be filled. Strix does the following things:

• Pitches to FoW.
• Removes any threat that uses the red zone, excluding something ridiculous such as Unblockable, Shadow or Regenerate (even though my Strixes are known to kill an opponents Thrun... RTFC seems hard).
• Provides instant card advantage when an opponent answers it.... and he typically has to. The only way to have it be a 1-for-1 is countermagic.
• Transforms the opponent in a very slow player, who doesn't dare to attack into it.
• In Esper lists, it's a cantripping artifact for Academy Ruins.

In other words, the card is quite amazing in this deck. Yes, it can die while Standstill is on the stack, but you have to keep these things in mind when you play your Standstill. Within the current meta, the most tricky thing to do is cast a StandStill. This always has to be a well thought-out action, as there are many things that can go wrong once it's in play. The days of cycling a Decree of Justice under a StandStill are gone.
Actually, normally you cast your Strix a turn before you land the Still. If it lived for this long, it's probably living, as most players kill it on sight (or even counter it, which makes resolving a Still even more likely). I almost never land a StandStill turn 2, unless I have FoW back-up and a Manland in hand or play.

I'm currently looking at only 3 Mishra, but maybe the 4th is so strong that another colorless land is worth the slot since they synergize so well with eachother? I'm looking to run 23 lands fwiw and 2 Tar Pit atm.

Viridia and I are strong advocates of running no less than 4 Factories. Our current build has 2 Tar Pits and 4 Factories. We're running 24 lands, which we're quite unhappy about. We used to run up to 26 lands (4 Waste, 1 Tar Pit, 4 Factory) before Abrupt Decay was printed (Worm Harvest build) and don't like anything below 25. However, since we're not running any Wastelands right now (with it being a colourless land and all) we decided to go down to 24 in favor of an extra Dimir Charm.

The Cranial Extraction is for Punishing Fire specifically as I feel that card must be very hard to beat and I'm not keen on messing up my mana base with Wastelands and Loam in the board.

I love this idea and will be testing with it for the PFire and Control/combo matchups. Might be a good slow in the board in the current meta.

Also another question I have is if anyone has tested the merits of Preordain vs Ponder in controlling lists like this that isn't looking for specific combo pieces? I noticed Hetrick played Preordain over Ponder in his Esper list recently and I have tried Preordain in the past and been relatively happy with them but am still undecided.

If you ask me, LandStill cannot afford to go down on answers and up on cantrips. While I acknowledge the raw power of the "bad" cantrips (Ponder, Preordain) I would never make room for them in LandStill. Me and Viridia have been crazy enough to run 3 Sensei's Divining Top (with Counterbalance in the board) a while back (probably 2011). However, currently you need more answers. Snapcaster doesn't become bad without more than 4 cantrips (Brainstorm). If you really need to fix your draws, you can always e.o.t. Dimir Charm yourself.

I think a lot of the decks power comes from Deed, Jace, Standstill and the manlands primarily

Agreed. Any other card can only amplify or weaken these cards. The actual reason this deck is any good is Pernicious Deed. Hence, I'd never play anything less than 4 of them in the main (perhaps one side, but that's pushing it).

Sdematt

Snare is REALLY good right now. It hits a ton of stuff, especially if you're on the draw. Hymn, SFM, Goyf, etc.

While this is very true, I wonder if you really have to answer these cards. Besides Hymn to Tourach, Snare hits only stuff that is also answered by: Abrupt Decay, Pernicious Deed, Baleful Strix and Dimir Charm.
Cards that Spell Pierce hits over Snare: B-mana discard, Top, Walkers, Burn, etc. We believe that Pierce in our current build is much better as it's way more versatile in the threats that it hits. The threats that it cannot touch are dealt with by our other removal suite. In the late game it's also not a dead card, because players are known to tap-out at the wrong times and it always can pitch to a FoW at moment's notice.

-----------------------
Another card for everyone to consider is Dimir Charm. We initially decided it was bad (it doesn't kill Goyf), we now think that it's the one card truly needed for the deck. It kills SFM, Bob, Shaman, Mother, Non-flipped Delver, Lavamancer, etc for as little as two mana. Furthermore, it counters any relevant sorcery from combo and also any discard spell. In the lategame, it provides a nice route to victory in fixing the opponents last draw step. While it does not answer Goyf, Knight, etc... we don't really care. This is where Baleful Strix shines. Basically, Dimir Charm is a removal spell, counterspell, end-game finisher and blue card that pitches to FoW. It fit so perfectly with the Baleful Strix plan that we decided to cut our second Counterspell and a Wasteland for it (the other waste is now a tar pit).

As a last point on the maindecked discard. I personally believe that if you know this deck well enough, you don't need the maindeck discard as much. The Vendilion Cliques already provided some information in the lategame (to see if you can land a StandStill or Jace). In the early game, there's not much you're really afraid of besides Combo. If you know well enough and early enough what you're opponent is playing, then you don't need the discard.

The most important thing with this deck is to know when to play a StandStill or not. Know your opponents deck and his possible outs from the top. If you have 3 manlands in play and the opponent has no board presence, then it's statistically unlikely that you loose from there. However, it is known to happen (lots to me). Be prepared to break your own StandStill and this point. I've won many times through breaking my own StandStill e.o.t. and have the opponent also discard to 7 cards in hand.

TR:DR: Most important thing: learn how to play this deck. Analyze the mistakes you make, because there are many, they are very small, and they lead to game losses. This deck is a punishment (while extremely awesome) to play.

[Iron Buddha]

I'm really digging your list. I'm not on the UBG train, but on the other one, but I see so many similiarities concerning the structure I definitely agree with:

• 25-26 mana-sources
• this deck can afford not to run Spell Snare (mainly because of Pernicious Deed and Baleful Strix providing good cardadvantage when on the defense)
• not more than 4 Brainstorm as for cantrips (no SDT or even Ponder)

So now on to my question:
How good is Surgical Extraction (against Storm, and Sneak Show)?
How good is Surgical Extraction with only 3 discard and 2 Wasteland?

[Reagens]

So now on to my question:
How good is Surgical Extraction (against Storm, and Sneak Show)?
How good is Surgical Extraction with only 3 discard and 2 Wasteland?

In both cases not very good.
Siding extraction vs sneak show seems like an atrocious choice anyway. The off-chance of hitting something that really cripples their deck are sooo small it's not worth having the dead draw of surgical.
Storm is more difficult. One can assume that you effectively cut off the ill-gotten gains route but what of it? Landstill does not pressure their lifetotals any time fast (probably only after resolving a clique) and thus they have very little need to go that way (since you are playing a lot of countermagic anyway it would probably only be tried by a competent player as a last resort anyway).
Having x discard and x wasteland is not relevant anyway. If you want to resolve two-card combo's you are better of playing another deck anyway. It does not guarantee you anything when you surgical their undergrounds or whatever card anyway.

Remember that in any given match-up boarding in surgical extraction can be a deathtrap. It is a very useful card vs reanimator/dredge and perhaps some other gy based decks. But the card is MUCH narrower then one would assume. I see people boarding in that stuff because they see snapcaster mage or lingering souls on the other side. The chances of resolving that card at the exact right moment (when flashing in snapcaster for example) are so small that it's really not worth the effort. I even had someone boarding in surgical extractions vs Matt's list because of the 3 snapcaster/singleton life from the loam. When he eventually extracted the loam the damage was already done (I just wanted three lands anyway).

[eldpojken]

Hello Chimera and thanks for response!

Many good points, especially that playing a Standstill has to be carefully thought out. I do feel however that that comes with the territory of playing the unique effect that it is and anyone who has played with or against the card realizes that pretty quickly. The hard part is ofc determining when it is actually good or not. Part of the reason I like this deck so much now is that I feel that it is relatively rare that you cannot play it at all (which is very different from my experience with the card in Standard way back when) since your deck is so well set up to function under it, both with manlands, the fact that you dont´t mind dragging the game out in order to get more land drops, and that you usually play a good amount of permission (I lean towards more than most probably) since being able to draw 3 and then counter whatever they do is so ridiculous as you can then untap with lots of cards, them often tapped out and rdy to be punished.

I'm starting to get the feel that you value individual card strength in the deck very highly, not only when it comes to Strix (who clearly just replaces itself right away and then gains tremendous value any time it blocks a big threat) but because of the fact that you dislike targeted discard, don't like playing cantrips and maxing out on Deeds, on top of seeming to want A LOT of lands. I think 23 is a lot for legacy and when I played 24 in a BantStill list with Loam I often felt incredibly flooded and that was with like 10-11 fetch and Sensei Top.
Now, I like your reasonings for why Strix is good as I have stated before but I am still unsure if it is necessarily the direction the deck wants to go. For specific metagames I am sure that max Deeds and max Strix are amazing but when building a list for a open legacy metagame with a wide variety of archetypes and ways to build them I generally prefer to keep my deck very flexible, able to play itself out of most situations, while retaining as much power as possible. This probably leads to more 55-45% type matchups instead of having some 70% and other 30%. I am not saying my approach is better or worse, and you guys clearly have a lot more experience with this archetype so this is mostly for discussions sake.

My reasoning for playing spells like Disfigure, Spell Snare and targeted discard is, as I have alluded to before, that I keep most of my deck able to deal with a variety of threats, both reactively and proactively, at a cheap price and preferably instant speed. This does a few things I think.
1) It should allow me to play fewer lands while still being able to function in the early turns, which should also be a blessing versus mana disruptive decks like RUG with Stifle etc.
2) By playing a few cantrips and lower numbers of narrower cards like Disfigure, Spell Snare, Abrupt Decay, I am more able to find the pieces I need for a specific MU while getting rid of the superflous ones like Deed vs some combo decks etc. This is also the reason I'm currently at 3 Deed but perhaps I should add one to sb or even main just because that card's powerlevel is sooo high.
3) It gives me a lot more ways to handle the t 1-3 threats of my opponent which hopefully allows me to resolve Standstill more easily, earlier and more reliably. I assume this is what the deck aims to accomplish. Granted with fewer super high impact plays each draw off of a Standstill will be less valuable, and this is probably why your list does so well, because you draw so powerful cards. However since I still remain at a high count of Deed, Standstill and Jace I feel my Standstills aren't much worse.
4) They increase the effectiveness of Snapcaster mage by a lot. Strix can't be snapped. Also snapping say Abrupt Decay or even Dimir Charm is kind of expensive. By playing more 1 mana spells the deck runs smoother to begin with by having a lower curve and also your Snapcaster mages become cheaper in general.

Of course this is mostly theory or based on general Magic experience rather than experience with BUG Still lists so take it with a grain of salt but please consider the merits to my reasoning and if you can relate it to your own experiences please share why or why not you agree or disagree!

As for Strix specifically I feel like with 3 Snapcaster, 2 Clique, plenty of manlands, 4 targeted removal spells, 4 targeted discards spells, 3 Deed as mass removal and 7 Permission spells that can handle creatures, my deck is already overloaded with efficient ways to deal with attacking creatures, the only downside being that they don't cantrip themselves. But maybe we do run out of steam anyways occasionally and Strix fixes that. Also I am at 26 blue cards in my list so the fact that Strix is a "blue removal spell" isn't that relevant for me as my FoW are really solid already.

I am going to try out both approaches to the build but I feel that mixing and matching might hurt the strengths of each approach and best results are probably yielded by either going a more mana hungry and powerful route with Strix, max Deeds, no discard and plenty of draw and lands, or by making the deck sleeker, faster and more flexible to more often achieve the late game where lands and Jace can take over instead of trying to overpower the opponent. Which is better is probably very context dependant but I would like to know more if you have just tried some of the cards I'm using in your general list without actually going all the way. Maybe there is more for all of us to explore? :)

For Dimir charm, what sorceries beside Hymn and ShownTell do feel are strong enough to warrant it's inclusion? My reasoning is that Spell Snare handles Hymn and stuff like Infernal Tutor or Wishes just as well, and also deals with a lot of the problematic 2 drops that we really want to stop before Standstilling like Bob, SFM, Goyf, CB etc. It's not removal but running 4 targeted discard and 2 disfigure on top of all the other permission and Decays can most likely handle the creatures that slip through. I do like flexible cards like that though, and usually overvalue them probably, so Dimir Charm seems interesting!

I feel like I have forgetted 70% of what I wanted to write about but this post is already long so I'll let you all respond while I think of more topics. I am super excited to put some lists together and get out of this Terminus trap I've been living in! ;)

[Arianrhod]

I've kept my maindeck pretty close to the same:


2 Snapcaster Mage

4 Force of Will
3 Spell Snare
2 Spell Pierce
2 Counterspell

2 Disfigure
2 Innocent Blood
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Maelstrom Pulse

3 Pernicious Deed

4 Standstill
4 Brainstorm
1 Life from the Loam

4 Jace the Mind Sculptor

4 Polluted Delta
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
1 Island
1 Swamp
3 Wasteland
4 Mishra’s Factory
1 Creeping Tar Pit

The sideboard changes pretty erratically based on what I'm expecting, but there's almost always a pair of Vendilion Cliques, and 3-4 Leylines for graveyard hate.

My thoughts on some hotly debated cards:

-) Strix.

I like Strix as a card, I really do. The problem is, I like the spell-based options instead. I play the deck a bit more as revolving around Standstill. This means I play very cautiously, leaving mana up, Brainstorming aggressively with Jace, and so on. It also means that I would rather have more instants in the deck to draw into. Yes, Strix can solve a Tarmogoyf just as well as a Spell Snare can. But I'd rather Snare the Goyf than Strix the Goyf -- it takes less mana, for one, and Snare has additional combo ramifications (yes, Dimir Charm. Moment.)

While I believe that Strix is certainly a viable option should you want to run it, I personally prefer to have more spells and fewer creatures.

-) Dimir Charm.

I think Dimir Charm is a solid option, and I've been contemplating replacing one or both Disfigures with them. However, the issue there is that Disfigure kills 1-drops on t1's endstep, which leaves the board open for a t2 Standstill. Having to Dimir Charm the 1-drop means that you don't get to drop Standstill on an empty field. The other line of play is to FoW the 1-drop, then slam Standstill to refuel. But this seems like a subpar line to me -- I'd rather just solve their 1-drop with my 1-drop, then hold Force for something scarier (or ideally to hardcast later). So, yet again, mana conservation.

-) Snare.

If you aren't running Strix/Charm, I think this is a no-brainer. Regardless, Snare serves another role in a more traditional, spell-based landstill list like mine: if you're on the draw, you can counter their 2-drop. Ie, let's say Jund starts off land, pass....or land, Thoughtseize. You play land and pass back. They drop a Goyf, and you have a Standstill in hand. Snare dat bitch. There's obviously the Hymn argument, but that's been used into the ground. You can also stop Stoneforge Mystic with it, which has been relevant in my experience -- if you have a slower hand with like Deed/Jace/etc, SFM can open up a window to sneak in Batterskull if it resolves, which can be a problem.

Also, if you think that Deed is fast enough to answer most of the things that you would want to Snare, you're sorely mistaken and will one day be punished for it. Deed is a good catchall, and it IS amazing right now in general....but you're going to get punched, hard, if you rely on it too heavily. You need spot removal and spot counter to maintain control of the game to the point where Deed can take over completely.

-) Manlands.

I agree with Viridia/Chimera here. 4 Factories is mandatory. Factory is at the heart and soul of this deck. Creepy Pit....I dunno. I like him as a 1-of, honestly. I'd rather have more lands that come into play untapped than support a 2nd Creepy Pit. My build also runs a Loam maindeck, so I can get it back. Also, old 43lands trick: when you're ready to start punching with Tar Pit, make sure you leave a wasteland up. That way if they try to Swords your Pit, you can Waste it in resp. and Loam it back later.

[Chimera87]

I will see if I can reply to the comments/questions given above tomorrow.

First, I'd like some comments on the list I am planning to run for GP Strassbourg this weekend. Today, Viridia and I discussed the deck and we decided on this:


Land (24)
3x Flooded Strand
4x Polluted Delta
4x Tropical Island
4x Underground Sea
2x Island
1x Swamp
2x Creeping Tar Pit
4x Mishra's Factory

Instant (16)
3x Abrupt Decay
4x Brainstorm
1x Counterspell
4x Force of Will
2x Spell Pierce
2x Dimir Charm
Creature (8)
4x Baleful Strix
3x Snapcaster Mage
1x Vendilion Clique
Enchantment (8)
4x Pernicious Deed
4x Standstill
Planeswalker (4)
3x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1x Garruk Relentless

Sideboard (15)
4x Surgical Extraction
2x Flusterstorm
3x Thoughtseize
1x Life from the Loam
1x Golgari Charm
1x Vendilion Clique
1x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Memoricide



Basic changes from the list I have been testing for a while:
-1 Vendilion Clique +1 Garruk Relentless in the main. I'm quite unsure about this. I love a second Clique main, but since I've tested Elspeth in my Esper build, I wanted something similar in BUG. Perhaps Garruk Relentless can fill this slot.
-1 Krosan Grip +1 Memoricide in the board. I'm expecting quite the number of Punishing Fires and this card answers them, while also providing utility against Combo/Control.

Thoughts?

[Arianrhod]

-) I feel like 4 Jace should be required...certainly over Garruk R. Garruk R. is a good card, don't get me rid -- but IMO he would be the 5th walker, not the 4th. The deck is just always better with a Jace in place, and it can be somewhat lackluster at pressuring opposing Jaces. You also can't really abuse Garruk R. -- he's just a token guy for you. You can't like pseudo-Survival off and such.

-) I don't like your basically complete lack of "big dude kill" in the maindeck. If they Tombstalker, I guess your out is to bounce it with Jace? Otherwise, what do? Or Deed for like a million, I guess. Some of that might be colored by the fact that I mostly play Nic Fit, so I'm always conscious of having a plan to deal with that matchup should I run into it when I'm NOT playing Nic Fit. I'd still like to see 1 Pulse main with the second in the board, though.

Those are really my only two complaints. I mean, I have philosophical differences, as noted above, with some of your choices -- but working within your paradigm, I think the list looks pretty solid.

[Iron Buddha]

But I think you need 4 Pernicious Deed, because it is your only way out if you fall behind. In Nic Fit you still have a plan B, that is, ramping into a monster.

[The Treefolk Master]

I
The sideboard changes pretty erratically based on what I'm expecting, but there's almost always a pair of Vendilion Cliques, and 3-4 Leylines for graveyard hate.

What would you recommend for a combo heavy metagame? (about 30%, I have done the complete breakdown and math but posting all the stats sounds a bit obnoxious).

Also, why Leyline over other options such as Nihil Spellbomb or S. Extraction? Do you value the permanent exiling effect so highly? Please note that this is coming from someone who is the all time master of drawing Leyline (any Leyline) T1.