[Deck] UBGx Landstill

[kiblast]

I think that the main reason you go BUG control is Pernicious Deed. You should pack at least a couple in your 75. I'm not sure about the effectiveness of Counterbalance in a deck packing just 2 Tops. In general I don't see Counterbalance belonging in a deck not packing 5-6 Miracle spells.

[phazonmutant]

Sorry for double replying.

Yesterday I brought BUGStill to a 40ish players tournament going 4-1-1 in swiss and losing in top 8 to Miracles.
The only round I lost in swiss was to Punishing Miracles so I'm starting to see something here… How is this matchup so bad? How can we make it better?
<etc>

Honestly, I'm shocked that BUGStill could ever lose to Miracles. I've played against Miracles with every sort of BUG deck since Decay got printed and I never felt like it was close. I have to think that you're misplaying somewhere because Deed + Decay is very good against them.

The only way you lose to Miracles is Entreat. Play Deed, don't lose to that.

[Nastaboi]

Actually Punishing Fire is somewhat problematic. I have had never problems beating Miracles, but Punishing Fire decks can make me sweat. As you can lock Miracles from winning with Deed, they can lock you out of win conditions with Punishing Fire - it even beats Jace. Also finishing the match in time can be really difficult, when neither deck can really win from some positions.

[phazonmutant]

Actually Punishing Fire is somewhat problematic. I have had never problems beating Miracles, but Punishing Fire decks can make me sweat. As you can lock Miracles from winning with Deed, they can lock you out of win conditions with Punishing Fire - it even beats Jace. Also finishing the match in time can be really difficult, when neither deck can really win from some positions.

You play Wasteland, Loam, and 6+ Enchantment destruction spells, right? Come on.

[kiblast]

Honestly, I'm shocked that BUGStill could ever lose to Miracles. I've played against Miracles with every sort of BUG deck since Decay got printed and I never felt like it was close. I have to think that you're misplaying somewhere because Deed + Decay is very good against them.

The only way you lose to Miracles is Entreat. Play Deed, don't lose to that.

Yeah that was my initial thought as well. Probably not seeing a single Deed and one Decay in 4 matches helped them though.

Anyway, I began testing a copy of Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver and it seems interesting. Stealing one creature every 2 turns vs any deck packing at least 15-18 creatures seems good. Plus he acts as a (way) better Nephalia Drownyard vs Control.

[Adryan]

I've said it before and i say it again. Baleful Strix was so bad in this deck, and now with TNN it's even worse. Innocent Blood is so much better.

I won a Daily Event months ago with a 4 Innocent Blood List (edit link if i find it), and it was a very good removal. But now with TNN everywhere it's even better.

[HardBrain]

ok. now im after some test on cocka with my spar frinds. and i have a look at meeeeny decklist. the only problem was with sneak show when he go combo. this is my list for now. please spend couple of minute and think about my solutions:
4deathrite shaman
2snapcaster mage
2venser shaper sevant
...8
4brainstorm
4force of will
3abrupt decay
2counterspell
2spell pierce
2disfigure
1diabolic edict
1life from the loam
1dismember
...20
4standstill
...4
3jace tms
2liliana otV
...5
2mishra factory
2creeping tar pit
2wasteland
2verdant catacombs
2misty rainforest
4polluted delta
1island
1swamp
1forest
1bayou
2tropical island
3underground sea
...23

SB:
1life from the loam
1krosan grip
2energy flux (yes!)
1maelstrom pulse
3misdirection (who knows why hehe)
2surgical extraction
1nihil spellbomb
3enginered plague
1golgari charm

and now im gona test your tech UBplaneswalker and one nephalia. could be ok. any suggestions? im still working on sb but main works enough good o think. especially diabolic edict vs tnn at eot or vs sneak. also T1shaman gives us acces to play standstill in T2. also make us faster. on second turn lily?

[Nastaboi]

You play Wasteland, Loam, and 6+ Enchantment destruction spells, right? Come on.

How does enchantment destruction spells help against Punishing Fire? I do rely on Wastes and Loam to keep it in check, but things don't always go like in movies. I for myself have never lost to Punishing Miracles, but was mainly referring to other Punishing Fire decks that also play Loam and can thus fight back your Wastelands.

HardBrain: Sneak and Show is indeed a hard matchup because 1) combo 2) Blood Moon. Shamans help though. I have both Cliques and Goyfs for my transformal anti-combo plan.

[pandaman]

I've said it before and i say it again. Baleful Strix was so bad in this deck, and now with TNN it's even worse. Innocent Blood is so much better.

I won a Daily Event months ago with a 4 Innocent Blood List (edit link if i find it), and it was a very good removal. But now with TNN everywhere it's even better.

Adryan, what list are you rocking at the moment?

[HardBrain]

nastabol. i try to make this MU not so bad as it is now. yeah shamans works great here. also we have golgari charm. abrupt.pulse.krosan to crack moon. edict and venser try beat combo. but what do you think about whole 75 that i wrote up? TNN isnt so bad now with sacrifice engine and always we can play plague on merfolk.
Misdirection is my favourite trick. redirect TNN power on my opponent then i can block and just kill him. miss are also awesome against some discard. burn ....

[warai]

As much sexy as the idea of having Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver might be, the card sucks because it doesn't have any impact the turn it enters. Liliana is way better.

Yeah that was my initial thought as well. Probably not seeing a single Deed and one Decay in 4 matches helped them though.

Anyway, I began testing a copy of Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver and it seems interesting. Stealing one creature every 2 turns vs any deck packing at least 15-18 creatures seems good. Plus he acts as a (way) better Nephalia Drownyard vs Control.

[kiblast]

As much sexy as the idea of having Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver might be, the card sucks because it doesn't have any impact the turn it enters. Liliana is way better.

We have like 1thousand ways to deal with creatures. Sometimes you need something different from removals. My removal set up is:

3 Decays
3 Deeds
1 Disfigure
1 Liliana of the Veil

4 Baleful Strix (Pseudo removals)

That's like 12 ways to deal with creatures.One every five cards in my deck. On top of that, Snares and Counterspells. I'm definitely not looking at another Liliana if I want something to fill my flex slot. As much as Liliana is good, she doesn't actually *win* the game as Ashiok could. Not as quick. Lili's ultimate just cripples opponent's board position, while Ashiok can quickly grab a couple of Goyfs and win the game quickly.

[Nastaboi]

Misdirection is my favourite trick. redirect TNN power on my opponent then i can block and just kill him.

What it that supposed to mean? Misdirection interacts in no way with True-Name Nemesis. What you however CAN do with Misdirection is direct their own removal spells to TNN. Works especially well with Decay.

[HardBrain]

What it that supposed to mean? Misdirection interacts in no way with True-Name Nemesis. What you however CAN do with Misdirection is direct their own removal spells to TNN. Works especially well with Decay.

tnn comes and target me. i use misss to change targen to himself.

[Shawn]

That doesn't work, TNN's ability is a static one, not a triggered one you could respond to, and Misdirection can't target abilities.

[somethingdotdotdot]

That doesn't even slightly work. First, read misdirection. It allows you to change the target of spells, not abilities. Second, the choosing a player part of the ability doesn't ever use the stack, so you couldn't respond to it anyways. You can only respond to the tnn while being cast, before the ability has chosen a player or after tnn has resolved, after the ability has chosen a player.

[phazonmutant]

How does enchantment destruction spells help against Punishing Fire? I do rely on Wastes and Loam to keep it in check, but things don't always go like in movies. I for myself have never lost to Punishing Miracles, but was mainly referring to other Punishing Fire decks that also play Loam and can thus fight back your Wastelands..

Oh, I was thinking of having to answer Rest in Peace, but it would be kind of silly to have a deck featuring Punishing Fire and Rest in Peace. Yeahhhhhh. Well, Decay and Deed are still good against Counterbalance...

Of course Jundy decks are going to be harder than Miracles, but those are completely different matchups.

[Phantom6879]

Well since people apparently still play this deck I'll post my list. Lol

MAIN:
3x Snapcaster Mage

3x Swords to Plowshares
3x Diabolic Edict
1x Toxic Deluge
3x Pernicious Deed
1x Life From the Loam
4x Brainstorm
4x Standstill
2x Spell Snare
4x Counterspell
4x Force of Will
1x Liliana of the Veil
3x Jace, the Mind Sculptor

3x Wasteland
4x Mishra's Factory
1x Creeping Tar Pit
2x Flooded Strand
4x Misty Rainforest
3x Underground Sea
1x Watery Grave (budget normally doesn't matter)
3x Tropical Island
1x Tundra
1x Island
1x Plains

BOARD:
1x Engineered Explosives
4x Rest in Peace
3x Duress
1x Abrupt Decay
1x Vedalken Shackles
3x Vendilion Clique
2x Mindbreak Trap

I would also agree with Aushiok not being as good as Liliana in my personal perspective due to the fact she seems more "cute" and less bomby. Basically she doesn't impact the board as soon as she hits. Plus I feel I may be a little removal light? I don't know?

Also.. I don't know how the hell you can lose to Miracles.. Honestly. Pernicious Deed and Abrupt Decay. That's all you need for the most part. Punishing fire gets hosed by Wasteland and Extirpate or Rest in Peace.

Toxic Deluge is the best card against Tribal and all Blade archetypes. I almost prefer it over Deed sometimes!

[klaus]

Back-in-the-day LS player here,
I recently picked up this beast and have been liking its performance so far.
Some insights:
* While Lili can be a house, more often than not, I don't really want to use her +1, since between SS and Jace my hand is hardly ever empty. The archetypes she shines in simply don't run as many C/A spells.
* Still undecided on whether Thoughtseize is MD or SB material
* Clique seems like a necessary evil in the wake of the rise of Combo
*

Here's my current list for reference (crits = welcome):

4 SS
4 BS
4 FoW
3 Jace
3 Deed
3 AD
3 Innocent Blood
3 Jace
3 Clique
3 CS
2 Snare
1 LftL

4 Delta
1 Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Sea
3 Tropical
2 Island
1 Swamp
4 Factory
2 Wasteland
1 Tarpit

SB:
2 Relic
1 Deed
1 Extirpate
3 Thoughtseize
3 Spell Pierce
1 Clique
3 Plague
1 Fluster Storm

[Phantom6879]

* While Lili can be a house, more often than not, I don't really want to use her +1, since between SS and Jace my hand is hardly ever empty. The archetypes she shines in simply don't run as many C/A spells.
* Still undecided on whether Thoughtseize is MD or SB material
* Clique seems like a necessary evil in the wake of the rise of Combo

I feel your pain Klaus on the Liliana subject. I usually keep a land in my hand to tick her +1. Theoretically turning my lands into target player discards a card or if you play her followed by a Standstill you will end up having more cards and you can tick her +1 until they are hellbent. Not to mention Life From the Loam paired with her.

As for Thoughtseize I wouldn't criticize anyone for playing it main, but I would just rather have the chance to respond to exactly what they play. Not to mention the information is valuable at worst. Ex: I Thoughtseize and take their best card and pass the turn. They play a threat and in the early turns I don't have enough mana to respond.. So therefore I keep discard in the board personally speaking.

The necessary evil that is combo I will 100% agree with you on. I have addressed that with
4x Force of Will
3x Duress (except Sneak and Show they all have mostly noncreature spells)
3x Vendilion Clique
2x Mindbreak Traps

I haven't tested Clique in the main as a three of except against Blade archetypes and combo so I can't give much insight there for you, sorry.