[Deck] ATS (Angry Tradewind Survival) - Lock

[Carlos El Salvador]

What is basking rootwalla for?! He;s not good VS anything... how is he good VS landstill?

[Sims]

I guess he blocks a Factory under standstill? God I honestly have no clue. I don't even see him as an asset in any of the matchups that ATS is gunna run into.

[Di]

Knight-

If Landstill is a problem in your meta, you should NOT be playing this deck. ATS doesn't have a favorable matchup against it, so it's pointless.

Also, if you still wish to play the deck in your meta, why is Eternal Witness not in the maindeck, which should already be maindeck to begin with?

4x Basking Rootwalla (awesome against landstill)

Wrong. Landstill doesn't care about a crappy 1/1.


Honestly, the best advice I can give is take the most recent decklist on here, which if it isn't posted PM me, and use that.

[MattH]

It's because he thinks that playing a spell via madness isn't going to trigger Standstill. He is wrong.

[Knight]

... k rootwallas are out.. i guess that was kinda a stupid idea.. but honestly, did you guys ever think about 1 maindecked gaea's herald? its only 1 spot, and its a really good card.

[troopatroop]

ok knight... lets examine that idea

you're asking us to make room in ats for gaea's herold. I guess you're logic is that in adding the herold you will be able to survival for it and all of your guys will become uncounterable.
Its not as good as you think it is. You will only reliably see the herold when you have a survival in play, and against control, it isnt likely to happen. Even better, whenever survival hits play against control... you should win. You get genesis and recur the shyt out of them. the herold really wouldn't do much, I doubt its got a spot here. And even more of a predicament....

what do you cut? the maindeck is EXTREMELY tight and theres no room for new cards. It's almost a deck set in stone... except I've kinda looked at +1 stifle -1 FOW, but those cards serve the same purpose in general...

ok I'm ranting.... sorry. Knight, sorry but theres no room for herold here.

[BoTS]

Diablos, what exactly is the current build you are running? I saw part of the deck at the $1000 Amrod's, but I'm unclear as to what you cut for the witnesses and such.

[Di]

Lol, I just realized I haven't posted the newer list, despite sending it to around 30 people. Anywho, here it is:

4 Survival of the Fittest
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
2 Stifle
1 Back to Basics

4 Tradewind Rider
2 Eternal Witness
2 Quirion Ranger
1 Seedborn Muse
1 Gilded Drake
1 Mystic Snake

1 Anger
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Genesis

1 Masticore
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Elvish Lyrist
1 Uktabi Orangutan
1 Spore Frog

4 Birds of Paradise
4 Wall of Roots
1 Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
4 Tropical Island
1 Taiga
7 Forest
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills

Sideboard:
3 Back to Basics
2 Dense Foliage
1 Stifle
1 Spike Feeder
2 Naturalize
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Silent Arbiter
2 Chill

Comments:

-Many people didn't realize I didn't have Back to Basics maindeck. It's been there for quite a while, actually, but I think I may have forgot to mention it to anyone(which is accidental). However, currently the one Back to Basics maindeck has a chance of being removed. Decline of LandStill and other control is making it let and les useful, although every tournament I play in it holds up it's weight, so it'll most likely stay in.

-Wood Elf is being tested currently, but the maindeck is extremely tight. I'm toying with the removal of one Wall of Roots, but I fear the removal of it will make the aggro game a little tougher, and I'm unsure if it's worth that to give me a Taiga, which in this case will be a situational play(need Survival). I'm leaning towards not using Wood Elf, but more testing will give me the answer.

-The sideboard is constantly changing. With the meta currently undergoing fluctuation, it's rather difficult to keep the sideboard the way it is. Other cards that have been flipping in and out of the sideboard are Energy Flux and Tranquil Domain, and there are a few more to come. We just need the format to come at a halt for a little while, like it was a few months ago, which gave me the ability to determine the proper sideboard.

-The deck is a terrific metagame choice if aggro continues to increase. The deck has a great game against almost every aggro deck, and if it doesn't, Dense Foliage solves that problem(ask Garv, he knows). It's WelderMud game is still really strong, and it's Dragon game is getting better.


So yeah, enjoy.

[juventus]

I seriously can't see wood elf being any good because if you have 3 mana and you need a land, eternal witness can do the same job too.

Also, why are there no life gaining creatures in there? I always saw them as a big part of the deck. A lone spike feeder or baloth seem strong to me.

The random Back to Basics also seems bad to me with only 4 brainstorm to find it.

Finally, is it really worth it to take up an extra slot with lyrist/monkey? Why not just play zealot and save a slot (or put the deck down to 60 cards).

please keep in mind that these are just random thoughts from an inferior ATS player :)

[bigguyinblack]

You won't always's get a fetch land early and there are usually better target's for the witness then land unless your opponent nuked your Tiaga. Wood elf does help up the forest count for Rofellos but every time my opponent drops a first turn Tiaga I'm happy to have my Wall of Roots.

ATS is good enough against aggro that the Spike Feeder can usually sit in the SB unless your meta is very aggro heavy.

BtB doesn't have to hit turn 2 to be effective and nothing sez you can't Witness a Brainstorm to keep looking.

Zealot was discussed earlier. It has poor synergy in the deck because it can't be bounced to use it's effect again and it's twice the cost to use and activate then Elvish Lyrist during Genesis recursion. Very few deck's abuse both artifacts's and enchantment's equally.

[Di]

I seriously can't see wood elf being any good because if you have 3 mana and you need a land, eternal witness can do the same job too.

It isn't there for acceleration, Wood Elf's purpose is to be able to "survival" for a Taiga. Occasionally, the deck doesn't draw Taiga/fetchland when we want to, so Wood Elf would be able to get it for me.

Also, why are there no life gaining creatures in there? I always saw them as a big part of the deck. A lone spike feeder or baloth seem strong to me.

There aren't any in the maindeck, but a Spike Feeder is in the board. Feeder can go in the slot of maindeck Back to Basics if lots of red is around.

The random Back to Basics also seems bad to me with only 4 brainstorm to find it.

It was added as another card to play against Landstill/control game one. That's the strongest card for this deck to use against Landstill, so I gave it a shot in the maindeck, and it hasn't disappointed me yet.

Finally, is it really worth it to take up an extra slot with lyrist/monkey? Why not just play zealot and save a slot (or put the deck down to 60 cards).

Zealot costs four to kill something. Uktabi costs three, and has strong synergy with Tradewind Rider, which is great for the WMud matchup. Uktabi could easily be Scavenger Folk, but the synergy w/ Tradewind against Welder Mud is too strong. Elvish Lyrist is much better than Viridian Zealot in matchups like Dragon, which that fact right there makes it a stornger choice.

[juventus]

It isn't there for acceleration, Wood Elf's purpose is to be able to "survival" for a Taiga. Occasionally, the deck doesn't draw Taiga/fetchland when we want to, so Wood Elf would be able to get it for me.

Ok I forgot that taiga/fetch might not be in the yard. But still, the deck never before had a card that searched for taiga, and now it has a semi-searcher in eternal witness, can't you just be satisfied with the fact that you won't get taiga 100% of the time you get survival?

There aren't any in the maindeck, but a Spike Feeder is in the board. Feeder can go in the slot of maindeck Back to Basics if lots of red is around.

yea sounds good for my meta. I'd take out the B2B for a spike feeder.

Zealot costs four to kill something. Uktabi costs three, and has strong synergy with Tradewind Rider, which is great for the WMud matchup. Uktabi could easily be Scavenger Folk, but the synergy w/ Tradewind against Welder Mud is too strong. Elvish Lyrist is much better than Viridian Zealot in matchups like Dragon, which that fact right there makes it a stornger choice.

but is it worth wasting a slot? Also when you do not get survival, the zealot is much stronger. Finally, cutting the deck to 60 cards really helps because it lets you get more birds/survivals in your opening hand.

[BoTS]

I really like the maindeck BtB. The day after the 7/10 tourney I ran two maindeck (I think I may have cut a stifle or the fourth brainstorm I don't remember that well) and they were amazing for me. It made my round one dragon matchup many times better, and other matchups throughout the day. Is there a chance of upping it to two, or is one good enough?

[bigguyinblack]

Also if your feeling up to it you could address a problem many people (including myself) have with the deck. The deck is so tight that while what to put in is usually an obvious choice, What to take out rarely is. Would you be willing to post some suggested sideboard plans with the current build vs some of the major deck's such as FCG, Mud, Dragon, Landstill...

[Di]

Ok I forgot that taiga/fetch might not be in the yard. But still, the deck never before had a card that searched for taiga, and now it has a semi-searcher in eternal witness, can't you just be satisfied with the fact that you won't get taiga 100% of the time you get survival?

Um...no. That's like saying "My deck can win on turn two, but I'm happy winning on turn six". If ATS is able to go crazy using Anger, which is a lot better than waiting without haste, then by God I want to do it every time I can.

I really like the maindeck BtB. The day after the 7/10 tourney I ran two maindeck (I think I may have cut a stifle or the fourth brainstorm I don't remember that well) and they were amazing for me. It made my round one dragon matchup many times better, and other matchups throughout the day. Is there a chance of upping it to two, or is one good enough?

Back to Basics won me the Dragon matchup against peter_rotten at the Amrod's tourny a few weeks ago. I'm beginning to have a love/hate relationship with it right now though, due its uselessness in a few matchups.

Also if your feeling up to it you could address a problem many people (including myself) have with the deck. The deck is so tight that while what to put in is usually an obvious choice, What to take out rarely is. Would you be willing to post some suggested sideboard plans with the current build vs some of the major deck's such as FCG, Mud, Dragon, Landstill...

I'm not in the mood for typing a lot more right now, so I'd basically just follow the primer, only with an updated sideboard(the one I posted above).

[BoTS]

Back to Basics won me the Dragon matchup against peter_rotten at the Amrod's tourny a few weeks ago. I'm beginning to have a love/hate relationship with it right now though, due its uselessness in a few matchups.

granted it may be bad in certain matchups, at the very least it serves as additional Force fodder. I personally love the card, ecspecially in a deck that can run under it despite the fact that over half of the lands are nonbasic.

[bigguyinblack]

I'm not in the mood for typing a lot more right now, so I'd basically just follow the primer, only with an updated sideboard(the one I posted above).

I understand not wanting to type up a bunch of sideboard plans, But the primer isn't much help in these matter's.
In many matchup's you removed the 2 Sylvan Library's to make room for more useful card's but now that they have been replaced by a 4th Brainstorm and a 2nd Eternal Witness neither of which I would want to take out it make's SBing even harder.
For example in the FCG match up you suggested +1 Stifle, +2 Crawlspace(now Silent Arbiter), -1 Uktabi Orangutan, -2 Sylvan Library. But now you have 2 Chill's and a Sideboarded Spike Feeder to combat the deck as well. So that's 2 card's out (1 Uktabi Orangutan, 1 BtB) and 6 card's in.

Perhaps it should be Sideboarded like this:
-1 BtB, -1 Uktabi Orangutan, -1 Elvish Lyrist, -1 Mystic Snake
+1 Stifle, +1 Spike Feeder, +2 Silent Arbiter

The Chill's would be nice but with no way to get them dependably and no room for them it may be better to concentrate on the Arbiter + Tradewind lock.

[Di]

Ahh, I forgot the fact that the deck changed, so sideboarding was different. Don't yell at me, I was tired. Now that I just woke up(roughly 3pm), I'm ready to type a bit.

The Chill's would be nice but with no way to get them dependably and no room for them it may be better to concentrate on the Arbiter + Tradewind lock.

Chill flatout stops them from comboing, that's why it's there. It gives me enough time so I'm actually able to cast the Tradewind and Silent Arbiter. Anywho, here are the sideboarding for current matchups that you asked:

FCG:
-1 Back to Basics, -1 Uktabi Orangutan, -1 Gilded Drake, -1 Mystic Snake, -1 Brainstorm, -1 Eternal Witness
+2 Chill, +2 Silent Arbiter, +1 Stifle, +1 Spike Feeder

In this matchup, Elvish Lyrist has to stay in so you have a better chance of stopping the turn 1 Goblin Lackey. Removing a Brainstorm and an Eternal Witness aren't too harmful to the deck replacing them with stronger cards. Actually, I find myself boarding Brainstorms out a few times per tournament.

LandStill:

-1 Elvish Lyrist, -1 Spore Frog, -1 Goblin Sharpshooter, -2 Stifle, -1 Wall of Roots
+3 Back to Basics, +2 Dense Foliage, +1 Naturalize

I could sideboard in the 2nd Naturalize, but I really don't like doing it, as there's lack of cards to toss out. The other card to remove is Gilded Drake, and Gilded Drake is kept in ONLY if they are using Exalted Angel. If not, toss him out for Naturalize.

Dragon:

-1 Uktabi Orangutan, -1 Gilded Drake, -1 Spore Frog, -2 Wall of Roots, -1 Mystic Snake, -1 Brainstorm
+1 Stifle, +2 Tormod's Crypt, +2 Naturalize, +2 Back to Basics

I think this is obvious.

Welder Mud:
-1 Elvish Lyrist, -1 Goblin Sharpshooter, -1 Spore Frog, -1 Mystic Snake, -1 Back to Basics
+2 Naturalize, +1 Stifle, +2 Energy Flux(explained below)

Remember when I said there were some changing slots in the sideboard? Well, half the time Energy Flux goes in one of those slots. I've decided to cut the Back to Basics plan against Welder Mud, because part of the deck's strength is being able to operate while tapped down(see: Tangle Wire, Winter Orb), and Energy Flux does a hell of a lot better job keeping them in check than BtB will.

Currently, the sideboard fluctuation cards are Back to Basics and Chill. They keep on going in and out for other stuff for metagaming.

[CavernNinja]

I heard mention of Wood Elf, but what about Wirewood Guardian, isn't he a little bit more effecient than Wood Elf is? Finding your taiga for only 2 instead of 2G.

[Di]

I heard mention of Wood Elf, but what about Wirewood Guardian, isn't he a little bit more effecient than Wood Elf is? Finding your taiga for only 2 instead of 2G.

Wood Elf is also acceleration, putting the land into play immidiately. If I play a land before Guardian is cycled, then I'd have to wait again, which would be annoying. Plus, if it comes to it, I could thin the deck like crazy using Tradewind+Wood Elf, just like ElfNail did in T2.