[Deck - CaNG Finalist] I Will Survive

[dahcmai]

It seems like overkill to play that many angels, but they have worked out well at that number. Usually, I don't rely on Survival like I mentioned. I didn't want to get into the habit of having to mulligan to one every game. It's also handy to just run people out of removal quickly by being able to spam them with threats. I don't mind since I can just play them as a morph and flip them easily with Saffi, Blink, or discard Akroma to Survival and return her with a Retainer. I actually would like another Akroma, but 2 seems to be working so far. She's just a beast so I want her out right after a Exalted draws a swords.

Eight-and-a-half tails was an mvp for things like Shriekmaw on Akroma. He stops pretty much anything that's going to kill her and can sit and block most anything that tries to race. Wraths are rarely played around here.

Tarmogoyf sounds like it should be good, after all he's a monster in anything that's green, but he just plain has no synergy at all in here. There's no way to return him and I don't discard much of anything short of a creature here and there. He just seems subpar compared to third turn swings with one of the angels. I had him in my initial build, but eventually he went to the board since he always got boarded out, and finally was tossed since I never seemed to want him in any situation.

Pithing Needle isn't a big deal. That's one of the decks strengths. Name survival and I smile. I rarely use the Survivals. Survival is only there because it is dangerous as hell if you're going to let me have an active one out. I might blow a Needle up if you named Saffi. I don't like them on Saffi at all. Otherwise, it's a pretty bad card to board against this.

I board Needle myself just for Counterbalance really. Taking out the Tops makes it pretty useless other than odd topdecks. The mana costs are pretty weird as is. It was another reason I was trying out the Reveilarks. The cost was a bad spot for them to hit. We only have two Countertop style decks here, one with moat and counterspells and another with Imperial Recruiters, Painters Servants, Grindstone. So far, haven't had to much problem unless the one combos out fast. The control deck doesn't seem to be able to deal with this deck well. Runed Halo does work on Grindstone which is amusing.

I have had Harmonic Slivers in and out of the board. I like him a lot and I keep tossing the Wispmare and Grips back and forth for them. That's a personal choice I guess. Actually, I think if I pulled that deck out right now it has 3 Harmonics in the board.

I'm kind of surprised you went up on the number of Mangaras. I kept thinking he was too slow. Sure you get a nice remove from game effect, but man, I hated waiting for summoning sickness and I just couldn't bring myself to try getting an Anger online. That 4th color just seemed like stretching it.

If there was a white or Green card that didn't suck that could give haste, I might try it. I board him out a lot since I hate how slow he is. He stays in the deck because he's so randomly dangerous. If someone is running out of answers and he pops up, it can be a lock out. I've never wanted him early though. He working out for you? I may be trying to play him at odd times or something.

And lastly, Swords, yeah. I couldn't see myself taking those out for much of anything. The day you do, you run into something you need a swords for. Never seems to fail.

So my questions would be how are you guys dealing with combo? That seems to be my biggest problem. Game one is almost an auto lose. This deck can't out combo those dedicated ones. How are you doing against Threshold. I haven't had a chance to play against that. I take it that's why the comments about Loaming Shaman came up. Dredge surely isn't a problem. Go Saffi.

[Isamaru]

Threshold won't be a problem because 30+ creatures are way to many to deal with with 3-4 Daze + 4 FoW + 3-4 Counterbalance, and most of the threats are 3cc+, so I wouldn't even really worry about counterbalance.

I thought Needle was vs. Belcher. I thought you brought in Needle and Dueling Grounds and then in the time it bought you (it should by you at least like 5 turns until they find a spare Burning Wish + enough mana to cast it and a destroy spell) you could have time to go infinite.

For Storm combo (remember: infinite life wins here), I just stuck with 4x Glowrider and 1+ Gaddock Teeg in the side board. I figure turn 2 is just going to have to be early enough, otherwise they deserved to win. Glowrider also gives a ton of decks I've seen fits, and doesn't affect us at all (like Heartwood Storyteller)... I usually also bring them in vs. control... I don't know if that's bad.

For other combo, usually the deck is pretty junky if it can truly deal infinite damage, but if it is something like Salvagers or Painter's Combo, the sideboard should be enough. Any "other" combo almost always includes 1 piece that is hit by Pithing Needle, or at least Krosan Grip, or StP.

Thinking back, have you had any need for Pianna, Nomad Captain (but then play Ghostly Prison over Dualing Grounds, etc. and change the strategy a bit) or Asmira, Holy Avenger (again)?

About Mangara... Mangara started at 1x in here, as a mainboard way to deal with something that would prevent you from winning (like a Solitary Confinement) after you went infinite... Harmonic Sliver does the same thing, but is sometimes just plain dead, and doesn't have all the tricks Mangara does. (Yes, you definitely don't need Anger.) The upside to 3x Mangara is that "being slow" doesn't matter so much anymore, because he is there (probably drawing fire) so early, and is a ton more disposable then.

I am almost surely playing 3x Akroma, because I want to see one every game, especially against aggro or control/Threshold. (The Academy Rector scenario). There are 11 cards that can flip her (not including Survival tutoring).

Even though Reveillark might be nice utility, I think Genesis is better vs. control, and vs. anything else, the space it takes up would be more useful as something else.... like Cloudthresher, for instance. I still always love the idea of Cloudthresher.

Are 3-4x Oblivion Ring better than StP in this deck, since we'll almost always have the mana? It's certainly 3-4x mainboard answers to counterbalance if you really fear that, and it removes a ton of problematic things like Vedalken Shackles, anything standing in your way of winning, etc. Then again... I think Mangara really is better?

In my deck, 3x Swords to Plowshares are enough because of Eternal Witness. There are also 3x Karakas + 2 Mangara + 1 Eight-and-a-Half-Tails, so I am confident that I will be able to block creatures indefinitely, and I will only be wanting the Swords to Plowshares to remove utility creatures that won't be entering combat, especially Dark Confidant.

I am still playing almost exactly what I was before:

// Lands (20)

4 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Flooded Strand

4 Savannah
4 Forest
1 Plains

3 Karakas
1 Tropical Island / 1 Forest (if you have 4+ mana, it usually means you have a BoP anyway)
0 Horizon Canopy

// Creatures (30)

Mana
4 Birds of Paradise
1 Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
0 Llanowar Elves / 0 Fyndhorn Elves

Combo
4 Essence Warden
1 Soul Warden
4 Saffi Eriksdotter
4 Loyal Retainers

Legends
3 Akroma, Angel of Fury
2 Mangara of Corondor
1 Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob

Utility
3 Eternal Witness
1 Loaming Shaman
1 Dust Elemental

// Non-Creature Spells (10)

3 Swords to Plowshares / Eladamri's Call
4 Survival of the Fittest
3 Momentary Blink

// Sideboard (15)

2 Krosan Grip / Harmonic Sliver
2 Wispmare
3 Pithing Needle
4 Glowrider
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Ghostly Prison / Dueling Grounds

For a 3x Mulldrifter version or 3x Exalted Angel version, I'd take out the 3x Swords to Plowshares OR 1 Akroma, Angel of Fury, 1 Eight-and-a-Half-Tails, 1 Mangara.

[dahcmai]

Ah yes, Belcher would be a nice use for the Needles. I don't get to see the Belcher deck running around my area too often. The guy who plays it likes TES a lot more.

I actually put in the Needles to name Survival laughably enough. That was my problem I kept hitting was another Survival deck (more traditional) that has some janky way of using a Spike Weaver and Palinchron to Recurring Nightmare back and forth to bump any creature to whatever power/toughness. It may sound bad, but the guy does well and keeps getting past a ton of people to end up playing me eventually if he shows up. That deck looks like such a pile, but when he's trashing on some good decks with decent players behind them there's something to it. Weird.

Anyway, Pianna, Nomad Captain? that's an odd one. I usually just rely on the Angels. There's 5 of those beasties and it's more than enough usually. Never had much reason to try and go saffi beatdown.

Reveilark was actually being tried since I see a lot of Pernicious Deeds. It's a beatdown creature that flies and no one wants to kill it when it means I'll get to enable a combo off it. Usually, there's a dead Saffi, Witness, or Loyal Retainers by the time it comes out and people are a little reluctant to kill it if it means dealing with those again. Saffi + Witness is enough to make most people cringe.

I like the Swords more than the O-Ring mainly because of the witness thing. I've gotten the chance to play Swords, Witness it up again, swords again, Survival another witness, and keep going till out of witnesses. That's something you can't do with a Ring.


One thing, I'm not getting is you're talking as if Shackles are a problem. You mentioned in another post that if Shackles are activated Eight-and-a-Half Tails won't help and I don't see how you're getting that. If someone activates the shackles targetting something, just make the shackles white and give pro-white to whatever they targetted. It just makes it an illegal target and nothing happens as far as I know. Maybe I'm missing something obscure, but I don't think so.

That's the main reason I went up to two Eights is he dodges a lot of random stuff and makes Akroma live through everything but wrath type effects.

I might have to try your Rofellos though, I like that idea, though I'm not sure I like the idea of not getting morphs out on 2nd turn so often. The deck does like mana, I may have to add him in place of the Lark. Larks weak, but I wanted another solid answer to Deed.


Lastly, where in Michigan are you at? I'm in Traverse City, MI

[Isamaru]

Unfortunately, making the Shackles white is too late by the time the activation is on the stack. The ability on the stack didn't come from a white source when it was put on the stack. (Though it'd be nice if more people didn't notice this, maybe I can start getting away with it, since I've had to mention it to everyone I've run into so far.)

Yes, I think Deed is one of the most devastating things. I guess Revillark can be Swords to Plowshared, but I dunno... Do you have any other ideas for facing it? (I think Caller of the Claw has been discussed, but I've never liked it. Currently, I just rely on not overextending, and using Saffi to save at least one creature. Sometimes you can Dust Elemental down and save everyone, but he's usually Force of Willed.)

[Willoe]

@Dachmai:

That's the main reason I went up to two Eights is he dodges a lot of random stuff and makes Akroma live through everything but wrath type effects.

Unfortunately, you can't do that. You have to target Akroma with 8tails, and Akroma has protection from white FYI.

Other than that, it seems like my questions have been pretty well answered. Isamaru, your list looks rather strong, I might try it out later.

A couple of comments/questions:

Is it becuase Horizon Canopy is speculative that it has "0" count?

Tapping down a creature for being able to flashback sounds rather bad. :( I'd for sure play a Tropical Island over a Forest. It can then trick your opponent (by fetching it turn 1) for Cabal Therapying for a dedicated Threshold card like Counterbalance. But that might be less important. I'm more concerned that you should not tap the birds late-game for them being able to block a goyf and stalling a turn.

Is Karakas really necessary? I know, savage synergy with Mangara, and recurring Fog-effects sound good, but still... Have you ever faced mana screw due to the fact that Karakas wasn't a basic plains and the opponent i.e. wasted the land or played a Blood Moon?

@The questionable slot with the mana elves: I wouldn't play them. After all, do you need 1 power? Not being able to produce white mana sounds terrible. Don't play them IMO.

I'd rather play a 3-2 split between Essence Wardens and Soul Wardens, but that is just a minor alteration that in most cases doesn't matter at all.

3 Akroma, Angel of Fury? Really? I know, playing Bikini Chick face down and then Blinking is pretty savage. But don't you need an Akroma, Angel of Fury? She can be resistant to STP with 8,5 tails in play. And dealing 6 damage the turn where you "reanimate" her as well as being able to hardcast her (with mana boost from Rofellos and Birds of Paradise) in certain situations. I'd go down to 2 Furies and then add 1 Wrath.

@Dust Elemental: Amazing card choice! 6 power is almost always enough to deal with a tarmogoyf. Tempo setback isn't really a concern as you will deal six damamge every turn, and the only creature that can block and kill it in the format is a very large Nantuko Shade or a Phyrexian Dreadnought. Evil tech, indeed A must counter which is good. Props!

I'd add one Swords To Plowshares. It's so amazing. How about cutting a Warden in place of one of these critter-removals?

I like Wispmare in the sideboard. It's pretty versatile, after all. How has it been in your testings?

@Dueling Grounds: Nice choice, but does it sound tempting to test the just spoiled Stoic Angel from Shards of Alara? A reference:

Stoic Angel 1GWU
Creature - Angel
Flying, vigilance
Players can't untap more than one creature during their untap steps.
3/4

Just out of bolt range, and he's a VERY powerful tool against Goblins, Ichorid and other "weenie" decks. How does she sound?

[Isamaru]

Definitely only use 2 Karakas - I tried 3 for one second and it's just being way too greedy. You draw 2 per game way too often. By only using 2, hopefully see one every game, if not every 2 games at the least. I'd still play 20 lands, so replace it with 1 Horizon Canopy or 1 Flooded Strand or another Forest.

The Tropical Island bluff is cool, but I'd never feel safe doing it because I never go and get a dual land on the first turn. I always wait to see if it's a deck that plays Blood Moon or Wasteland or Sinkhole.

Oh I forgot its actually possible to cast that angel. To bad she's not Legendary (and then possibly given a power boost). I really like her, but she doesn't do exactly what Ghostly Prison does. Prison can come down turn 2 and Goblins can't Gempalm it, and it also randomly wins against Ichorid...

But then again... she really is pretty unique. She instantly means that you get to have 2 untapped creatures every turn, while the opponent only gets one. Your opponents' will most likely be slightly weaker than her, and Flying and Vigilance means its almost 3 free damage a turn, and then a 3/4 blocker.

I think overall, though, that she doesn't do much in non-aggro matches, so keep her in mind, but right now I don't think she's earned a spot.

I think Swords to Plowshares is enough (and I'm the first to object when people use 3x of a 4x card like Aether Vial or whatever). With 4, I'd draw 2 in a non-aggro match, and they'd be almost dead. I can deal with 1 draw that isn't a threat in a non-aggro match, but not 2 non-threat draws. The reason I condone 3 in this deck is because of Eternal Witness. If you want to fit in the 4th, take out Mangara #2, who is acting as my StP #2 right now.

I'm sticking to my 4-1 split on Wardens because Essence Warden is so much easier to cast. And yes, Dust Elemental is amazing. There is no played creature in Legacy that can block him except Tombstalker, who'd die.

[Carabas]

Unfortunately, you can't do that. You have to target Akroma with 8tails, and Akroma has protection from white FYI.

Yes, Akroma has pro white. That means you don't have to target her, and give her pro white again. You just have to make the thing that's targeting her white. Protecting the red beauty is much less mana-intensive than protecting almost anything else.

[Willoe]

Duh, I'm dumb. You're absolutely right. Never mind about that.

About the Angel:

I'll test her and see how she performs. But then, if you really say that Prison helps you more, then we could just use Windborn Muse instead.

[dahcmai]

Tividar of Thorn seemed to be enough for Goblins at least for me. I haven't really had a lick of problems out of that deck and if I have Tividar, even the nuts hand goblins can get sometimes isn't enough. He's an amazing blink target alone.

his Horizon Canopy of 0 was only a reference to my version. I use two of them. I just like the card since you don't care about life totals much anyway, it's one more way to get both white and green and it has the card draw when not needed anymore. Witness can reuse it if necessary.

I'm betting that new Angle won't hold it's water. It doesn't have much synergy with the rest despite the good effect. Creature beatdown is one of the things you really don't have to worry about anyway.

[Isamaru]

Considering we thought Stoic Angel was useful and castable at , then this Legendary creature seems like it could be worthwhile... he's at least for a Legend with combat-only abilities like Pianna, Nomad Captain. But he's a ton harder to cast.

Rafiq of the Many

Legendary Creature - Human Knight Mythic Rare
Exalted (Whenever a creature you control attacks alone, that creature gets +1/+1 until end of turn.)
Whenever a creature you control attacks alone it gains double strike until end of turn.
3/4

It's an 8/5 attacker and a 3/4 blocker.... I'd probably say Pianna is better in this deck for what he does.

[dahcmai]

Heh, I noticed him also. That's not bad at all. He's not bad on his own, but he's no Akroma. I really want to find room for him to lend a hand attacking early, but face it, this list is getting tighter and tighter.

He does make for a different approach in trying to go aggro with the smaller creatures, but with only one at a time getting that ability, it's pretty limited. I'd like him more if he wasn't the one attacking and made some other creature better, but he just works alone it seems. He doesn't do much other than attack well by himself. He does hit harder than the Akroma's do, but he's also chumpable and killable with just about everything aside from Lightning Bolt in Legacy.

In the end, I think we'll both agree, he's not worth the slot.


The Angle I still want to test out. It's real borderline and might be worth it. That cost is the only thing making me cringe. It's too slow for goblins really, but it shuts down any aggro a turn faster than a Blinding angel.

To be honest I don't think the Angel is going to make it, but I'm going to proxy it up and try it anyway as a two of.