[Deck] Mono-Blue Control (MUC)

[4eak]

@ TheInfamousBearAssassin

Have you tested Brainstorm/Impulse? They are powerful enough cards to at least spend 10 games playtesting.

Stifle means that they have to have mana open once, which they might've had anyway. It also means that you lose that mana permanently.

Playing around Stifle means that they have to keep that mana open more than once, but they have to keep it open until you pop the fetch. If they've left the mana open, then you are usually timewalking them. I'm perfectly happy to see tempo decks stay untapped, especially if they aren't forcing through T2 Goyf/CB/Dreadnought.

Decks that are playing Daze/Stifle/Wasteland are not running nearly as many land as MUC. They can't keep up land drop parity with us, and by holding back to Stifle and not playing more aggressively against MUC, they will lose a serious tempo war because they didn't abuse the early game. They majority will eventually be forced to tap down against you before you need to pop the fetch.

Once we get to 4 lands, they are in a lot of trouble. Draw/Go with Brainstorm/Impulse has the highest probability of reaching the fourth land on 4th turn. Additionally, getting Stifled on fetch is not as common as you think. I usually open 2-3 land and 1 cantrip-dig spell (Brainstorm/Impulse), and fetching into danger zones isn't usually common.

Although, against T1 Swamp, and I suspect Sinkhole, I may lay fetch first if I'm going second.

The prevalance of Stifle, along with Daze and Wasteland, is half the reason to play MUC right now.

We can consistently (especially with cantrips) make unstiflable land drops against tempo decks. While fetchland weakens this position slightly, it is quite minimal compared the strength and resilience added by Brainstorm at this stage of the game.

Unlike Landstill which is more color dependant to even cast and resolve spells, MUC is much better at holding out on the handful of fetches it plays. With Brainstorm/Impulse, we are still at an advantage against the tempo deck that chooses to stay untapped for Stifle against us.

Frankly put, for the cost of opening yourself up to 4 one-mana, instant Sinkholes, I'd rather run Opt.

Brainstorm is worth playing before Opt even without Fetchlands. Digging 3 deep on turn 1 is spectacular, especially for anyone who is so concerned about having a stable mana base. The shuffle effect only becomes important in the mid and late game. Goto 4 fetches if you are that worried.




peace,
4eak

[Captain Hammer]

While I don't think either Brainstorm or Impulse is ideal in this deck compared to proven bombs like Ancestral Visions and Fact or Fiction...

Both Brainstorm and Impulse are roughly 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000x better than inexcusably crap cards like Whispers of the Muse, Think Twice and to lesser degree Accumilated Knowledge* that absolutely don't belong in any deck, period.

*AK is I guess playable ONLY in a deck also running Intuitions, but certainly not by itself as is the case here.

[Benie Bederios]

While I don't think either Brainstorm or Impulse is ideal in this deck compared to proven bombs like Ancestral Visions and Fact or Fiction...

Both Brainstorm and Impulse are roughly 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000x better than inexcusably crap cards like Whispers of the Muse, Think Twice and to lesser degree Accumilated Knowledge* that absolutely don't belong in any deck, period.

*AK is I guess playable ONLY in a deck also running Intuitions, but certainly not by itself as is the case here.

In Legacy I think Fact or Fiction+AK is better than Intuition+AK.

BB

[4eak]

@ Benie Bederios

While I don't think either Brainstorm or Impulse is ideal in this deck compared to proven bombs like Ancestral Visions and Fact or Fiction...

Brainstorm and Impulse (to a lesser extent) have been proven in MUC. They might not be preferred in permanent MUC, but they are still the best choice for Draw/Go.

There is a reason we see someone like Kadaj forced to offer a lengthy explanation as to why he doesn't run the card--he has to justify why he isn't running a proven card. My testing shows he's right about Brainstorm in permanent-MUC, but this is not the case with Draw/Go.

I hope you don't think I'm offering Brainstorm as a replacement to Fact or Fiction =)...The last 4-6 draw spells beyond FoF in Draw/Go are all I am arguing about.




peace,
4eak

[Rood]

I'm surprised you guys haven't tried out Meditate yet, it's rediculous for me so far in testing. This is my list I'm working with atm

Rood MUC

// Lands
24 [10E] Island (3)

// Creatures
4 [LRW] Sower of Temptation
1 [US] Morphling

// Spells
4 [REW] Powder Keg
4 [US] Back to Basics
4 [FNM] Fact or Fiction
4 [IA] Counterspell
3 [FD] Vedalken Shackles
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [DIS] Spell Snare
4 [TE] Meditate

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [IA] Hydroblast
SB: 4 [TE] Propaganda
SB: 4 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 3 [TSP] Wipe Away

It's running really smoothly for me. I do like Think Twice but I'd rather pay 3 mana for 4 cards instead of 5 mana for 2 cards. I don't think the extra turn really hurts this deck, it's designed to go to late game.

[Tao]

Sry but Meditate is probably the worst suggestion of the whole thread ;)

I am usually open for unusual choices, but giving an extra turn for one or two extra cards (compared to TfK)....no. Really.

[Rood]

Thanks, I appreciate the feedback (Lol), it's not as bad as it seems. I'll test out TfK in that slot then and see how much better it is.

Alot of times if you don't have the Artifact all TfK is draw 1 card for 3 mana. When you put it into perspective you draw 3 additional cards at the cost of skipping a turn...doesn't seem all that bad.

[Tao]

Well, you don't have enough Artifacts for TfK, so you should rather try something conservative (Impulse or AK).

[Rood]

Impulse is really bad man at providing what this deck needs, pure card advantage. AK is alright, but requires Intuition which will fill up more slots I don't really have. AV would be the only other viable option, but when you topdeck the card it's horrible slow beyond belief, so both Meditate/AV have there pros/cons.

Also B2B compliments Meditate very nicely ;-).

[jjjoness']

I did some testing with Meditate and it is indeed very good, although quite situational. It is absolutely the nuts in the control mirror, as you can refill your hand by spending 3 mana and letting your opponent draw a card. The other side of the coin is that there's probably no other card that is worse than Meditate against aggro. So in a meta full of control I'd really recommend to run Meditate over or in addition to FoF. In an more aggressive Meta just don't.

[Illissius]

Heh. I remember the endless Meditate discussions from the TEC thread. It sounds similar to Jace Beleren in a way: both are much better if your opponent has no pressure on the board, and worse if they do.

So let's see:

Jace: If no pressure, nets two cards every three turns (or just three cards over the first three turns), minus Jace itself.
Meditate: Nets three cards immediately, minus Meditate.
Winnar: Jace?

Jace: If opponent has damage on the board, cantrips and potentially draws some of it away.
Meditate: Nets two cards while taking the damage on the chin. (not always an option)
Winnar: Meditate if you have plenty of life and the opposing damage is small; Jace otherwise.

Jace: Is a sorcery.
Meditate: Is an instant, but casting it at the end of their turn means casting it right before their extra turn, which is much the same.
Winnar: Neither. A draw.

Jace: Dies to burn.
Meditate: Doesn't give a shit about burn.
Winnar: Meditate

Jace: Can deck people. (Before the extreme late game, though, you'd rather just draw cards.)
Meditate: Can not.
Winnar: Jace. I guess.


Final verdict? As always: depends on the metagame. I like Meditate better if there's lots of burn around, and Jace otherwise.

[Sae~]

Seeing most people have moved their Back to Basics to the sideboard in the Draw/Go version, what do you think about running the T2 card draw engine Scrying Sheets?

You could run it in addition to twenty-four lands, and it should draw a decent amount of land with that much snow-covered basic lands, even without manipulating your topdeck.

Pro's & Con's:

+ It's uncounterable
+ (Possible) card draw every turn
+ Produces mana (colorless though)

- It's wasteland sensitive
- Costs a land drop
- It's possibly a bit slow

It could be an interesting card to test, perhaps as a two-of.

Sae

[KillemallCFH]

I've tested Meditate in MUC before, and was rather unimpressed. There were way too many times it was stuck in hand because you couldn't afford to give your opponent another turn. As Illissius noted, it fills a simliar role as Jace, and I would almost always rather have Jace. If you're meta is filled with burn (read: Aggro), both are pretty awful, as giving an Aggro player a free Time Walk is seldom beneficial. Jace at least cantrips and draws a burn spell away. And FWIW I think Jace also gets the edge in the Control matchup (though both are good there).

@Scrying Sheets: Quinn only runs that as a draw engine because it has nothing better. FoF and company are infinitely better methinks.

[Arsenal]

I haven't tested Meditate at all, so I can't comment on it's effectiveness in the Control matchup, but I have tested Jace Beleren, and it's an absolute BOMB. I've rarely lost a game once I resolve Jace in the pure control matchup. If your meta is slow (mid-range stuff, control decks, etc), then I'd highly suggest testing Jace as a 2-of.

[Shawon]

@Scrying Sheets: Quinn only runs that as a draw engine because it has nothing better. FoF and company are infinitely better methinks.

I'm pretty sure he wasn't suggesting cutting FoF and company for Scrying Sheets.

Anyway, Scrying Sheets seems interesting. Even though I run 4 B2B main, I run 1-2 Calciform Pools (storage land) because it provides a huge mana advantage that helps you own control mirrors. I guess Scrying Sheets can serve as the card advantage equivalent of Calciform Pools. Let us know how Sheets works out as a 1-of or 2-of.

[Shawon]

On my storage land note, is anyone who is experimenting with MUC willing to try storage lands? I've tried them and I love them because after I pack enough counters, I get to cast Morphling with enough mana for counters on my main phase. It's also good after an EOT Fact or Fiction when you have a shit load of a hand and you can just use the storage lands to dump Kegs/Shackles down.

[Tao]

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ead.php?t=4178

I made this a while ago (Phyrexian Ironfoot was really good before Tarmogoyf was printed). I think that with the Snow engine CounterTop deserves thoughts (Sheets are improved by Top and Top is improved by CB).

[Arsenal]

I've ALWAYS wanted to find a reason to play Ironfoot; best looking artwork for a creature imo. Too bad it's not really something MUC would run. I mean, a 3/4 vanilla creature isn't going to strike fear in your opponent.

[Tao]

I know I know. But back then the field was Goblins, Thresh and Solidarity and Ironfoot is good against them. Goyf, Doran, C. Crusher, Gathan Raiders etc. were not printed and Naught not Stifleable and a 3/4 for 3 Mana was something good. I just posted the link so maybe you can find some ideas in it.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

@ TheInfamousBearAssassin
Have you tested Brainstorm/Impulse? They are powerful enough cards to at least spend 10 games playtesting.

Is this a serious question? Yes.

While I don't think either Brainstorm or Impulse is ideal in this deck compared to proven bombs like Ancestral Visions and Fact or Fiction...

Both Brainstorm and Impulse are roughly 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000x better than inexcusably crap cards like Whispers of the Muse, Think Twice and to lesser degree Accumilated Knowledge* that absolutely don't belong in any deck, period.

*AK is I guess playable ONLY in a deck also running Intuitions, but certainly not by itself as is the case here.

Quite a lot of people have found Think Twice to be quite a good card, so I'm not really sure where this is coming from, but I suppose your opinion is just as valid as those who actually form arguments based on something.