What was the last good RED card printed?

[Koby]

Yeah, I'm that guy. I like mana denial as a strategy. I used to play stax. But they've basically stated they hate LD and have taken great steps to actively remove it from the game. The only LD effects that are around are severely overcosted in newer sets. I would LOVE a red Sinkhole, but that will never happen.

+1 - Yet I realize this strategy is not viable in Legacy due to the high efficiency in spells. LD only works when good spells cost 3-4 mana. I think a while ago WotC stated they wanted to lessen the influence that LD, Discard, and Counters had on the format (standard?), then they reprint Duress, Mana Leak, and... Tectonic Rift? Pffff please, you can't fool us with your double talk.

[Lancer]

+1 - Yet I realize this strategy is not viable in Legacy due to the high efficiency in spells. LD only works when good spells cost 3-4 mana. I think a while ago WotC stated they wanted to lessen the influence that LD, Discard, and Counters had on the format (standard?), then they reprint Duress, Mana Leak, and... Tectonic Rift? Pffff please, you can't fool us with your double talk.

It's so difficult to pull off because you need to destroy their lands and threats at the sametime and it's so much easier to handle the threats.

The best land destruction creatures are Orcish Settlers, Dwarven Miner, Hurloon Shaman and Akki Blizzard-Herder.

Although I could do more damage with Destructive Urge and a 1/1 flyer.

[Fossil4182]

I'd say the best Red cards printed in a while are Mental Misstep and Dismember... (wish I could say all joking aside)

I've seen Goblin lists running Misstep in order to combat Blue decks doing so. Dismember is also a great card because it can kill nearly anything in Legacy.

For cards that actually have R in the mana cost... hmmm

Goblin Guide
Pyretic Ritual
Searing Blaze
Kiln Fiend
Warren Instigator
Chaos Warp
Goblin Chieftain
Leyline of Punishment
Koth of the Hammer (Maybe)

Goblin Guide, Warren Instigator and Goblin Chieftain are the only ones that see play in decks that are Tier 1.5 or higher. However, even the decks that sport those cards are probably not Tier 1.5 decks currently; I'm trying to given them the benefit of the doubt for the sake of argument. From a design standpoint, Red cards are probably the most dangerous ones to design if the intention is to have them impact older formats. If WotC were to print aggressive and/or red cards that would be competitive in Legacy, it would likely be overly powerful in Standard. As a case and point, Mental Misstep "worked" in this sense because it has had a huge (albeit negative) impact on Legacy while not being overly powerful in Standard. Additionally, given the philosophical basis for the color, there isn't a lot of design space to do new things with the color without just upping the power level of existing concepts. IE, if Red were to get more powerful cards, it would either get better burn spells, or cheaper faster creatures (which still get Misstep'd). The other only other ways I could see Red expanding back into a competitive color is if better "hate" spells were printed; but that still probably relegates the color to sideboard status in Blue decks.

Stupid things they could of done (good - great in Legacy, insane and terrible for Standard):

R (Phyrexian Mana)
Instant
Counter target blue spell.

R
Sorcery (probably too good as an instant)
[Card Name] deals 4 damage to target player and 1 damage to you.

R
Creature - Goblin
Cannot be countered by spells or abilities.
Battle Cry
1/1

Even if the Phyrexian Mana card was two Phyrexian Red, it would still see a lot of play. They also could of made a version of this card that destroyed an Artifact which would have been great to answer the Stoneforge decks.

[Koby]

Even if the Phyrexian Mana card was two Phyrexian Red, it would still see a lot of play. They also could of made a version of this card that destroyed an Artifact which would have been great to answer the Stoneforge decks.

Mogg Salvage would like to have a word with you.

[Amon Amarth]

@Fossil: I disagree about Good Red cards warping Standard. Look a the current Standard and you'll see that what I'm talking about. Fetches, Grim Lavamanacer, Bolt, Koth, Shrine, Incinerate, Guide... and more and the deck isn't anywhere near dominating. This is the best Red has ever been, well Onslaught is pretty close too, in Standard ever. I think they still have a lot of room to work with.

[Comrade]

Blightstorm - R
Instant

Draw 3 cards, your opponent randomly chooses one. Put that into your hand and the other two on the top or bottom of your library in any order.

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Avalance Homies - 1R
Creature - Human
Haste

Quake 1 - When ~This~ comes into play, tap target land. It doesn't untap during it's controllers next untap step.

1/1

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Avalance Gangsters - 2R
Creature - Human
Haste

Quake 2 - When ~This~ comes into play, tap target land. It doesn't untap during it's controllers next two untap steps.

2/2

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Pitchforks to plowshares - R
Instant

Remove target creature from the game. If you do, sacrifice a land.

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Goblin Tutor

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Goblin Grenade 2.0 - R
Tribal Sorcery - Goblin

As an additional cost to play ~This~, sacrifice a goblin permanent. Deal 5 damange to any creature or player.

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Goblin Firecracker - R
Creature - Goblin

Sacrifice ~This~ to deal 3 damage to any target

1/1

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Goblin Fortune Teller - R
Creature - Goblin
Haste

When ~This~ comes into play, search your deck for a goblin card and reveal it. Then reveal a goblin card and shuffle that into your deck.

1/1

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Breeze of Change - R
Sorcery

Each player discards X cards and then draws X cards.

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Lightning Strike - R
Instant

Deal 3 damage divided as you choose to any amount of creatures or players.

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Forked lightning - 2R
Instant

Deal 3 damange to one target and 3 damange to another.

---------------------------------------

Crap shoot - R
Instant

~This~ deals 3 damange to target opponent or a creature they control. Their choice.

---------------------------------------

Scratch that itch - 1R
Sorcery

Choose one: Deal 3 damange to any target, Quake 1, or put a 2/1 goblin token with Haste into play.

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Rob - 1R
Creature - Human Wizard

At the beginning of your draw step, put a card from your hand on the bottom of your library. Draw an extra card.

2/1

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From Hell - R
Creature - Elemental
Haste

Sacrifice this creature at end of turn. At the beginning of your first main phase, return it to play.

2/2

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Red Death - 1R
Creature - Elemental
Haste

~This~ may only attack your opponent during either of their main phases, and only after they've declared their attack.

2/1

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Skullfudger - 2R
Creature - Elemental
Haste
Protection from white and green

3/3

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Burning Choice - R
Sorcery

Target opponent reveals their hand. Choose a card and shuffle it into their library.

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Shock Mountain - 3R
Enchantment

R: Deal 2 damange to any target.

---------------------------------------

Hymn to Koth - RR
Sorcery

Target opponent takes 2 damange and discards a card at random.

---------------------------------------

Hymn to Joven - RR
Sorcery

Target opponent discards a card at random. Draw a card.

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Pink hole - RR
Sorcery

Shuffle target land into an opponents library.

---------------------------------------

Underwater Volcano
Land

Tap, add R to your mana pool.
Tap, sacrifice ~This~ to destroy target island.

---------------------------------------

Burning Elysium
Legendary Land

Tap, add R to your mana pool for each mountain you control.

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Venomous Chipmunk - R
Creature - Chipmunk
Hexproof

When an opponent has 11 life or less, ~This~ gets +2/+2 and gains Haste.

1/1

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Pyrogoyf - 1RR
Creature - Lhurgoyf

~This~ gets +1/+1 for each instant, interrupt, or sorcery in all graveyards.

*/*+1

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Joven's squirrel - RR
Creature - Squirrel
Haste
Protection from blue

When ~This~ deals damage to an opponent, remove target blue permanent they control from the game for as long as ~This~ remains in play.

1/1

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Joven - 2R
Planeswalker

+1: Deal 2 damange to any target.
+2: Put three 1/1 ferret tokens with Haste into play.
-3: Remove target artifact from the game.
-8: Draw 7 cards.

2

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Blazing Ritual - R
Instant

Add RRR to your mana pool.

---------------------------------------

Roasting Nuts - R
Instant

Destroy target artifact or blue permanent. An opponent my pay 3 life to counter this spell.

---------------------------------------

Helioblast - R
Instant

This spell cannot be countered.

Counter target spell if it's blue or destroy target permanent if it's blue.

---------------------------------------

Raze - 1R
Instant

You may return a mountain you control to it's owner's hand instead of paying Raze's mana cost. Deal 2 damage to any target.

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Fire at will - 3RR
Instant

As an alternate cost to play ~This~ you may remove a red card in your hand from the game. Counter target blue spell.

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Ketchup - 1RR
Artifact - Item

Red creatures you control get +2/+2

When you control ~This~ and Chips, you may assemble them into a single indestructable artifact.

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Chips - 1RR
Artifact - Item

Mountains you control tap for double.

When you control ~This~ and ketchup, you may assemble them into a single indestructable artifact.

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Pooflinger - R
Creature - Human Wizard

R, Tap, Tap two permanents you control, deal 2 damage to target creature or player.

[Fossil4182]

@Fossil: I disagree about Good Red cards warping Standard. Look a the current Standard and you'll see that what I'm talking about. Fetches, Grim Lavamanacer, Bolt, Koth, Shrine, Incinerate, Guide... and more and the deck isn't anywhere near dominating. This is the best Red has ever been, well Onslaught is pretty close too, in Standard ever. I think they still have a lot of room to work with.

The point of my post wasn't to say Red isn't powerful in Standard. I never make that argument. My argument is that in order to make a Red card powerful enough to impact Legacy, it would likely warp Standard in the process. Red is powerful in standard, but of all the cards you mention, Grim Lavamancer and Bolt see the most play, but they don't really "define" Legacy though they have an impact and you have to be aware of them depending on your strategy. More to the point, those cards are reprints. The thread is talking about the printing of Red cards that would either define or impact Legacy. So again, I'm not saying Red isn't powerful in standard (and that really doesn't matter relative to this discussion), but what I am saying is the power level of a red card that could impact Legacy would risk warping Standard.

As to the other cards you mention. The fetches are ubiquitous relative to the other colors and probably benefit Red the least if you tried to argue it. With the exception of Goblin Guide, the cards you've listed are all "powerful" but only in Standard and do not see competitive play in Legacy. Even with Goblin Guide, it sees limited play at best.

Rukcus

Awesome suggestion

[Gheizen64]

Lol i can't express how stupidly good a R: instant: deal 3 divided as you choose would be. Even at 2 damage it would be played, forked bolt is borderline playable. On the other hand, i LOVE the inversed path to exile for red. Lol. It would more flavorful as an "avalanche" type card. Something like:

Mountainpass Landslide R
Sorcery
As an additional cost to play Mountainpass Landslide, sacrifice a mountain.
Bury target creature or land.
Nothing live under the mountain

A nice solution to solve the "too good in standard to be useful in Legacy" is just to work with the abuse of fetchlands, islands and U Cantrips.

Something like this to hate on fetches:

Ground Aftershock 1RR
Sorcery
Destroy target land, then Ground Aftershock deal damage to that land controller equal to the number of land in his or her graveyard.

Zo-zu's apprentice 1R
Creature - Orc Shaman
Whenever a player play a land, Zo-zu's apprentice deal 1 damage to him/her
Master taught me well
2/1

To hate on the abuse of islands:

Sleeping Volcano
Land
Sleeping Volcano come into play tapped unless you control a mountain
T: R
RR,T, sacrifice: destroy target island
Sometimes it wake up

Cryoquake 1RR
Sorcery
Destroy target island or plain. Cryoquake deal 2 damage to all creature and players.
Did you know merfolk and white weenie were decks?

To hate on the abuse of U cantrips:

Hell's Librarian R
Creature - Demon librarian
Whenever a player draw a card, Hell's Librarian deal 1 damage to that player
T: each player draw a card
Knowledge can burn
0/1

(yeah i know this is more black than red, but whatever, red should have some fire/demonic element imho)

You get the idea.

[Rizso]

Skullfudger current protections are black its should be protection white and blue.

[Amon Amarth]

The point of my post wasn't to say Red isn't powerful in Standard. I never make that argument. My argument is that in order to make a Red card powerful enough to impact Legacy, it would likely warp Standard in the process. Red is powerful in standard, but of all the cards you mention, Grim Lavamancer and Bolt see the most play, but they don't really "define" Legacy though they have an impact and you have to be aware of them depending on your strategy. More to the point, those cards are reprints. The thread is talking about the printing of Red cards that would either define or impact Legacy. So again, I'm not saying Red isn't powerful in standard (and that really doesn't matter relative to this discussion), but what I am saying is the power level of a red card that could impact Legacy would risk warping Standard.

As to the other cards you mention. The fetches are ubiquitous relative to the other colors and probably benefit Red the least if you tried to argue it. With the exception of Goblin Guide, the cards you've listed are all "powerful" but only in Standard and do not see competitive play in Legacy. Even with Goblin Guide, it sees limited play at best.

Rukcus

Awesome suggestion

Lightning Bolt and Lavamancer do define Legacy. NO RUG and Zoo both play them heavily. And most of the Zoo lists that have been placing well recently are running Guide as well. Hardly limited play. I mentioned Fetchlands because they make Lavamancer significantly better.

You're argument makes no sense because they can print cards in other colors that don't warp Standard but have an impact on Legacy. Green Sun's Zenith, Mental Misstep, Vendillion Clique, and Tombstalker all see play but did very little in Standard.

[Chubu!]

I don't mind red's underwhelming creatures in the 1-2cc slots; they're good enough to get you there IF you can get a few swings, then back them up with some burn to the dome. I like the feel of red as an all-in, screw defense, go for broke color. Sui black was viable many moons ago; sui red seems like a flavorfully-correct archetype. The problem with red, in my mind, is running out of gas too early. Without disrupting your opponent in some way that doesn't simultaneously cost you too much tempo, or drawing cards to refill your hand, red alone is often not aggressive enough to get there before the opponent stabilizes and your card disadvantage bites you in the arse. Many red players, myself included, will attest to the predicament of having used up one's burn clearing the way for weenie swings in the early game, only to be left hoping to topdeck enough burn to finish the job. Green and black avoid this by swinging in with big undercosted fatties which, if blocked, often do not trade 1-for-1. Could red do this, too? Sure, but there are other ways, some of which feel more "red" to me than simply printing more fat.

First, though, think of what red does do well. Red gets out to an early lead, often at the cost of low resiliency and card disadvantage. Why not focus on cards that capitalize on this innate ability of red? I like cheaper land destruction, personally, but whatever. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

Ideas:
More Ankh of Mishra-type effects, but on legs, a la Zo-Zu the Punisher. Don't blow up lands, since you're not a dick, but get poked them for playing/tapping them, etc.

Similarly...

A red hatebear that punishes your opponents for playing spells. Hell, this can be symmetrical, even. Sort of like Pyrostatic Pillar, but on legs. In general, cards with cmc 2 or less which synergize with red's ability to get out to an early lead via low-cc spells and card disadvantage (i.e. the "all-in" approach.) Just get them into burn range while I'm still holding on to some burn. There's some tempo-style potential as a red archetype, but one that turns your opponent's tempo against him or her, instead of outright disrupting it via cards like Stifle, permission, discard, etc.

Continuing on...

A symmetrical Black Vise for R. lolz. I miss Black Vise. Maybe even Magus of the Vise. Maybe I just miss Vise that much. Not keeping my fingers crossed for this one.

Red Ritual. Wasn't my idea. I love it.

Lower-cc Threaten/Act of Treason -type effects. Removing a blocker is nice. Turning it into an attacker, even for a turn, is really nice. Possibly even game-deciding. Also provides an "answer" to those pesky critters (read:goyf) that are too big to kill with burn.

A red hatebear that prevents life gain by virtue of its presence on the battlefield. Life gain, and white in general, ruin many red strategies, as well they should. Red should have a few more outs to life gain.

More low-cc critters with pro-white. Dodging the most common removal spell in the format is kinda nice for a red deck. Maybe coupled with the ability to prevent life gain...

That's it for now.

[NecroYawgmoth]

Breeze of Change - R
Sorcery

Each player discards X cards and then draws X cards.

Wohooo... Dredge =D

[Rizso]

Lightning Bolt and Lavamancer do define Legacy. NO RUG and Zoo both play them heavily. And most of the Zoo lists that have been placing well recently are running Guide as well. Hardly limited play. I mentioned Fetchlands because they make Lavamancer significantly better.

You're argument makes no sense because they can print cards in other colors that don't warp Standard but have an impact on Legacy. Green Sun's Zenith, Mental Misstep, Vendillion Clique, and Tombstalker all see play but did very little in Standard.

Even that Red in standard cant really beat Timely Reinforcement, the card the RDW alone...

[Guy I Don't Know]

I would love to see:

Slumdog Slinger R
Goblin

Haste
T: Put a fece counter on target creature. That creature cannot block (Even if this card leaves play).

Peasants crowds part for nobility, noble crowds part for slumdogs.

0/1

In all seriousness, phyrexian mana is perfect flavor for red and the card equivalent to Mental Misstep and Dismember is (drum roll please) Gut shot

[DragoFireheart]

The only reason red is even remotely any good is because of it's 1cmc spells that can counter any blue spell or blow up opposing Jaces/Cliques/counter Show and Tell. Bolt and Grim is good but not the sole reason.

[lordofthepit]

Burning Choice - R
Sorcery

Target opponent reveals their hand. Choose a card and shuffle it into their library.

No, this isn't broken at all.

I'd love to see some red creep. Although not to this extent, obviously.

[Octopusman]

A red hatebear that prevents life gain by virtue of its presence on the battlefield. Life gain, and white in general, ruin many red strategies, as well they should. Red should have a few more outs to life gain.

Stigma Lasher was almost there. I wish it had haste and pro white or something.

Some of these suggestions are the biggest tease!
Pretty sure that "Rob" would be a $75 card.

I would like to see more R cards along the rich history of smoke, Power Surge (although a fixed version), Manabarbs, maybe a different, R, Root Maze.

Pressure
2R
Enchantment

Activated abilities of Lands can't be activated the turn they enter play unless they're non-mana abilities.

- Seems like a fun/balanced lock piece that could help with the Land Destruction fanboys out there.
If I were to get greedy, I'd make this a 2/2 wizard instead of an enchantment. I think I just drooled on myself.


That Joven planeswalker is so broken. I'll take 4.

[rufus]

This would probably be borken, but...

Whenever a land would come into play, that land's controller discards a card from his or her hand at random instead. If he or she does, put the land into play. Otherwise exile it.

I still want to see things like

Discard a card from your hand at random: add to your mana pool. Any player may play this ability when that player could play a sorcery.

Whenever a spell is countered, that spell's controller draws two cards, and discards a card at random.

Each player assigns new targets for each spell they control. Exile all spells whose targets were not changed.

Copy target activated or triggered ability that you don't control.

For each spell, do 1 damage to that spell's controller.

Sacrifice a permanent: Destroy Target Tapped Non-Land Permanent. Any player may play this ability.

Whenever a player would play a spell, that player suspends that spell with 1 counter instead.

[Pich]

What was the last good RED card printed?

Goblin Guide.

[DragoFireheart]

What was the last good RED card printed?

Goblin Guide.

Did Goblin Guide warp the format?

Is goblin guide in at least 1 of the tier 1 decks as a staple and not just a "test" choice?

Is it used in anything beyond sligh decks?