[Deck] RBW Aggro-Control (Sleepy Hollow)

[Mr. Safety]

So I've been testing a Team Italia variant on MWS for modern. So far, it has performed really well. I am excited about the improvements that have been mentioned in the thread. For now, I'm considering Night's Whisper over Dark Confidant. Two cards immediately for 2 mana/life. Without countermagic, Bob is a lot more susceptable to removal. I'm not fighting this too hard though, he will most likely find his way into this list in the near future.

Updated 11/28/11:
4x Grim Lavamancer
4x Vampire Nighthawk
3x Tombstalker
3x Stillmoon Cavalier

4x Lightning Bolt
4x Lightning Helix
4x Path to Exile
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Steelshaper's Gift
3x Phyrexian Arena
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Loxodon Warhammer

4x Arid Mesa
4x Marsh Flats
2x Blood Crypt
2x Godless Shrine
2x Sacred Foundry
2x Lavaclaw Reaches
1x Swamp
1x Mountain
1x Plains
1x Ghost Quarter


Sideboard:

2x Engineered Explosives
4x Duress
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Disenchant
3x Firespout
2x Day of Judgement


Hope to get some feedback, as I see this as a potent anti-aggro option in modern.

[4eak]

Bunch of thoughts:

I don't like Grim Lavamancer & TS in the same deck. TS is awesome, but I still think Bob is worth using over it - Arena is 'so, so'.

Stillmoon Cavalier is a good card, unfortunately, I think it is outclassed by other cards. This looks like a 'pet-card' being thrown into the deck (or a deck being built around a pet card, either way). Stillmoon Cavalier might see play, but only after you've already got 15-18 other creatures in the deck which are better - if you are going to play this creature light, then you need to play only the best creatures (which doesn't include this guy).

You are missing a ton of creatures from that candidate list (all of which outclass Stillmoon, imho):
Gatekeeper of Malakir
Mirran Crusader
Phyrexian Crusader
Kitchen Finks
Serra Avenger
Phyrexian Revoker (highly useful; e.g. with a solid discard suite and Spellskite sb, Splinter Twin is quite winnable)

The majority of threats you are considering are awful - they have no place in an aggro-control deck like this (Elspeth & Nighthawk are the best on that list). If you are going to go from 2-color B/x aggro-control variant to 3-color B/x/y, it should be to play only the best cards of each color.

Consider: Terminate -- that card has been outstanding for me.

Blightning is not impressive in this format. Why not Thoughtseize or Tidehollow Sculler here? Seize hurts in the Zoo/RDW match, granted, but Blightning is not better. Choosing and seeing your opponent's hand matters.

The creature count might be too light (I'm not against it entirely), but the equipment package is ridiculous when you are this light on creatures. If you don't have 18 creatures in your deck, don't play equipment (excepting Batterskull).


peace,
4eak

[Dsch]

Descendant of Kiyomaro may be an interesting addition in there.
I agree that Stillmoon Cavalier, sadly, is not strong enough for the format.

[Mr. Safety]

Descendant of Kiyomaro may be an interesting addition in there.
I agree that Stillmoon Cavalier, sadly, is not strong enough for the format.

Updates made in the OP.

[4eak]

So, I've been testing and trying to make this deck work. Here is what I came up with:

// Lands - 22
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Mountain
4 Blood Crypt
4 Godless Shrine
3 Sacred Foundry
4 Arid Mesa
4 Marsh Flats

// Threats - 14
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Nighthawk
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant (eh, not perfectly happy with it, but as this deck is less aggressive, he makes dudes for both stalling and attacking)

// Strictly Removal - 8
4 Path to Exile
4 Terminate

// Burn - 8
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix

// Discard - 8
4 Inquisition of Kozilek (or Thoughtseize, with sb adjusted accordingly)
4 Tidehollow Sculler

// Sideboard
SB: 3 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 Raven's Crime
SB: 2 Thoughtseize
SB: 3 Kitchen Finks
SB: 4 Oblivion Ring
SB: 2 Liliana of the Veil

I'm not happy with it. I'm not entirely sure why.

Going 3-color (and not merely splashing the 3rd color) is very difficult to do without making the mana-base eat your lifetotal.

Zoo and RDW are dangerous decks no matter how you cut it. You can lighten the coloration load by using inferior spells, which makes your mana-base ease up on lifeloss, but then you end up with slightly inferior cards (defeating the purpose of going 3-color). You can lighten the lifeloss by taking a hit in tempo, either by fetching duals without taking the shock, or using a mana-base which is innately less stable but doesn't depend as much on lifeloss. All these options are not great against Zoo or RDW. You need to be able to interact turns 1 through 4, or you will probably lose against these decks -- the cost to interact is very high, imho.

It may be that only control decks (not aggro-control like this) which are lightly splashing the 3rd or 4th colors, and don't require access to all 3 colors on turn 2, will be the only decks which can afford to be so multi-color, I don't know.



peace,
4eak

[Mr. Safety]

Let me know what your results are, if you don't mind. I'd be curious what kind of numbers it puts out, even if it's only on a small scale.

I can't help but wonder if the spell-heavy version is still better, relying on Arena/Bob to feed removal and burn to you and having a handful of fatty finishers like Tombstalker. I am testing out the adjusted version in the OP to see if it can work or not. I'd love to compare notes.

[Mr. Safety]

I added in Vampire Nighthawk instead of Blightning (I was makine changes to the OP decklist slowly) and I have found it's enough, seriously. I trimmed off a Stillmoon Cavalier, but Blightning was the weak spot for sure. This gives me 4 more threats to use with the equips and gives me more lifegain to combat aggro.

I may be in the minority (and maybe the only one) that thinks this is a good list, but so far so good. I've faced a few decks that I felt would be auto-lose like Pyromancer's Swath/Storm (won that match) and U/G Tooth and Nail (won that match, too.) The one difficult matchup was zoo (surprise, surprise) and post-board I did better. I have added Firespout to the mix. It dodges my Tombstalkers and if I have a spare w/b available, it dodges my Stillmoon Cavaliers, too.

[conley1000000]

I tried to craft a deck like this in legacy recently after Fabriano's Team Italia but found stifle and wasteland to be too much of an issue...enter modern. I know Stoneforge Mystic is banned, but this is the decklist I came up with last night.

3 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Dark Confidant
3 Mirran Crusader
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Kitchen Finks

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile

1 Basilisk Collar
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
2 Steelshaper's Gift

4 Arid Mesa
4 Marsh Flats
2 Blood Crypt
3 Godless Shrine
2 Sacred Foundry
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Plains
2 Inkmoth Nexis

SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 Engineered Explosives
SB: 2 Disenchant
SB: 2 Extirpate
SB: 1 Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 2 Phyrexian Crusader
SB: 2 Combust
SB: 1 Basilisk Collar
SB: 1 Sword of Feast and Famine

Really gonna start testing this list hard...hopefully it can stand up to the Green Menace

[Mr. Safety]

I tried out Tidehollow Sculler...it's crap. You don't have enough serious threats and they will always take out your Sculler...so they can have the powerful card you robbed from them, which may deal with your other threats. It just isn't that great.

One card I've been fairly happy with is Loxodon Warhammer. I've swapped out the Basilisk Collar for it. It makes for a huge swing in game state with only one swing. Nighthawk or Stillmoon are both ideal targets, but my Tombstalkers didn't mind it either.

What I focus on is hosing the aggro-matchup while not auto-losing to the combo matchup (if possible.) Key cards are Vampire Nighthawk and Lightning Helix, which both give zoo fits.

I'm still on the Phyrexian Arena train...because I've found that Bob digs for too much life in modern. This is a 3-color, and mana hungry, deck that needs all 3 colors. PA gives you card advantage without the pain of Bob. I play early disruption/removal and then land a PA turns 3-5 to start grinding out CA with it.

I have been using Ghitu Encampments, but I may switch over to Lavaclaw Reaches...they seem much better.

[conley1000000]

I tried out Tidehollow Sculler...it's crap. You don't have enough serious threats and they will always take out your Sculler...so they can have the powerful card you robbed from them, which may deal with your other threats. It just isn't that great.

One card I've been fairly happy with is Loxodon Warhammer. I've swapped out the Basilisk Collar for it. It makes for a huge swing in game state with only one swing. Nighthawk or Stillmoon are both ideal targets, but my Tombstalkers didn't mind it either.

What I focus on is hosing the aggro-matchup while not auto-losing to the combo matchup (if possible.) Key cards are Vampire Nighthawk and Lightning Helix, which both give zoo fits.

I'm still on the Phyrexian Arena train...because I've found that Bob digs for too much life in modern. This is a 3-color, and mana hungry, deck that needs all 3 colors. PA gives you card advantage without the pain of Bob. I play early disruption/removal and then land a PA turns 3-5 to start grinding out CA with it.

I have been using Ghitu Encampments, but I may switch over to Lavaclaw Reaches...they seem much better.

I dont think I would ever give up Collar, as its combo with Lavamancer to machine gun anything seems pretty good. With Helix and Finks it makes up pretty good for the life lost with Bob, and being another relevant threat. I aggree that Tidehollow might not be too good, but there gonna waste a removal spell to get back what they want. Clearing the way with 12 removal spells plus Lavamancer/Collar makes little guys like Crusader and Finks very pesky. Having 6 disruption plus tidehollow in testing has been enough to disrupt what the opponent has been doing enough to get through...

[Mr. Safety]

I dont think I would ever give up Collar, as its combo with Lavamancer to machine gun anything seems pretty good. With Helix and Finks it makes up pretty good for the life lost with Bob, and being another relevant threat. I aggree that Tidehollow might not be too good, but there gonna waste a removal spell to get back what they want. Clearing the way with 12 removal spells plus Lavamancer/Collar makes little guys like Crusader and Finks very pesky. Having 6 disruption plus tidehollow in testing has been enough to disrupt what the opponent has been doing enough to get through...

They will be gunning for your Grims, trust me on this. You don't have enough creatures to take attention away from Grim and Sculler.

BTW, Sculler doesn't make them 'waste' a removal...they have also removed a threat, so it isn't a loss for them. Whatever you take away they get back, which will be something useful (otherwise why take it in the first place?) You are now at card parity again, you're down a Sculler and they are down a removal. Seems kind of 'meh' to me. I want my 1-for-1 trades to be cheap (Bolt, IoK, Duress, Thoughtsieze) so I can take advantage of spare mana for threats or additional removal/disruption. Sculler is also quite difficult to cast unless you dig yourself for those shock lands.

My recommendation to you is this: if you want more discard, play more targeted spells like Duress or Thoughtsieze. This feeds Grim Lavamancer (and in my case Tombstalker.)

About Basilisk Collar...I played 3 of them in my first version alongside Steelshaper's Gift and Sword of F&I. I'm going to be honest with you, it doesn't fall in the right timeline to be effective. You're really playing tempo with this deck, hoping to keep them off their threats/plays or putting down Bobs in your case. They have to deal with Bob and Grim Lavamancer...so their game plan is pretty easy: kill those and outmuscle you (I'm thinking mostly zoo here...) You don't have countermagic so great opposing topdecks can be really irritating.

Honestly, the best cards in my version are Vampire Nighthawk and Tombstalker, followed closely by Stillmoon. Nighthawk is an absolute beating against anything aggro when paired with Phyrexian Arena (or bob in your case.)