[Deck] ANC (Ad Nauseam Conflagrate)

[Fortunae]

No, this is not the reason, since you can play conflagrate for 1 from hand, and retaining priority play it for the flashback cost making you inmune to grave hate (beside Leyline/rest in peace, and to fight this you can ply a loner Patrician's sconr, you will ahve it in hand after going off). The most important reason is that you can combo and kill at instant speed with Lightning storm, while this is not possible with conflagrate.

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

If you cast a spell and retain priority, the spell remains on the stack. It will not end up in your graveyard until the resolution of the spell, and therefore cannot be flashed back in the way that you propose.

Graveyard hate should not be any more of an issue than countermagic because of Pact of Negation. Extirpate is the only real worry, and most Modern lists seem to prefer Surgical Extraction for surgical gy hate.

[egosum]

If you cast a spell and retain priority, the spell remains on the stack. It will not end up in your graveyard until the resolution of the spell, and therefore cannot be flashed back in the way that you propose.

Graveyard hate should not be any more of an issue than countermagic because of Pact of Negation. Extirpate is the only real worry, and most Modern lists seem to prefer Surgical Extraction for surgical gy hate.

Unless this has changed with M14, you are not right or I have explain myself not good enough.

What I meant is: you play conflagrate and resolve it (when you play an spell, the last thing happening to it is going to the graveyard). Then, when it has been resolved and placed into the graveyard, the priority gets back to you, and retaining THAT priority you can play it again before your opponent has the chance to remove it (in any possible way) from your graveyard.

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

[Fortunae]

Unless this has changed with M14, you are not right or I have explain myself not good enough.

What I meant is: you play conflagrate and resolve it (when you play an spell, the last thing happening to it is going to the graveyard). Then, when it has been resolved and placed into the graveyard, the priority gets back to you, and retaining THAT priority you can play it again before your opponent has the chance to remove it (in any possible way) from your graveyard.

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

I understand what you're saying now, you're absolutely right. I love the intricacies of the game mechanics =D

[Fortunae]

It's also worth mentioning that you have to sequence it right... you need to exile the SSG's all before you cast Conflagrate the first time or they can respond with shenanigans.

[Opaco]

It's also worth mentioning that you have to sequence it right... you need to exile the SSG's all before you cast Conflagrate the first time or they can respond with shenanigans.

Why is that? As far as I know, despite the unusual activation cost SSG ability is still a mana ability (activated, gives mana, no targeting, no loyalty) so when it is used it doesn't use the stack, or also can be used after putting Conflagrate on the stack, so I fail to see the window for the opponent to respond.

For the Conflagrate vs L.Storm, a couple of things:

If Martyr decks are popular in your area, is easier to get out of reach of L.Storm (~30 damage without counting opponent lands in hand vs 40+).
Due to Pod , Cages are getting popular, they also stop Conflagrate wich adds (1)U for bouncers to the combo (edit: or bouncing the previous turn).
L.Storm has an activated ability, can be stopped with Pithing Needle or Supression Field effects, again needing a bouncer.
L. Storm gets stopped by Spellkite, again bounce needed, but Conflagrate can ignore them.

Edit: as discarding land snot only incresaes the damage but let redirect L.Storm, it is technically possible to win with it over Spellskites, but the opponent must be so low in life that we have enough lands so after doing lethal and there are still more to repond to each possible Spellkite activation + lands in opponent hand. Considering all the damage the opponent will have will be self inflicted, quite the improbable task.

[fogxanic]

Also remember that if Lightning Storm get discarded you have no win con at all! Conflagrate gets better if discarded because it requires 2 red mana instead of 3 but vulnerable for gy hate.

I can tell about Laboratory Maniac as win condition. It needs littlebit more mana in combo turn than burn spells. Onboard lotus or prism is good to have.You can get 1 more mana when you have deck in hand just exile 2 spirit guides and play pentad prism. Also good to have 1 blue mana for draw a card spell. I have won with this against melira pods infinite life combo on table that was very nice Its also good against burrenton forge tender which is very sick against other win cons.ö

[egosum]

Also remember that if Lightning Storm get discarded you have no win con at all! Conflagrate gets better if discarded because it requires 2 red mana instead of 3 but vulnerable for gy hate.

I can tell about Laboratory Maniac as win condition. It needs littlebit more mana in combo turn than burn spells. Onboard lotus or prism is good to have.You can get 1 more mana when you have deck in hand just exile 2 spirit guides and play pentad prism. Also good to have 1 blue mana for draw a card spell. I have won with this against melira pods infinite life combo on table that was very nice Its also good against burrenton forge tender which is very sick against other win cons.ö

Each win con has up and downsides. I choose L. Storm, every sinlge situation said seems corner case to me compared to the abiltiy of going of at instant speed.

If you have it discarded is very likely that it get shamaned or Oozed away, so it really makes very little difference.

I'm playing a single lab maniac as a side win con just to face Melira Project and the like, but as a main win con is quite inferior most of cases.

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

[Fortunae]

Why is that? As far as I know, despite the unusual activation cost SSG ability is still a mana ability (activated, gives mana, no targeting, no loyalty) so when it is used it doesn't use the stack, or also can be used after putting Conflagrate on the stack, so I fail to see the window for the opponent to respond.

You're right, I forgot that Spirit Guide abilities produce mana and mana abilities and don't use the stack. Derp.

Would it be out of the question to run one each of Conflagrate and Lightning Storm? Space is tight, but it hedges against discard, and gives you a more flexible game-plan.

Asides from Maniac, are there any other alternate win conditions that are viable with what the deck is trying to do? I'm unfamiliar with about half of Modern's card pool, so it's taking me a bit to become familiar with some of the older sets and the options they give.

[Opaco]

Asides from Maniac, are there any other alternate win conditions that are viable with what the deck is trying to do? I'm unfamiliar with about half of Modern's card pool, so it's taking me a bit to become familiar with some of the older sets and the options they give.

The only other wincon that I'm aware of was Seismic Assault in early iterations of the deck, but apart from the surprise factor o incredible rare corner cases I think that all other options are better at the job. Despite drawing all the deck it's not easy to find a kill that can be paid just with SSGs mana and is as compact as current wincons (just one card).

If Laboratory Maniac becames the kill of choice maybe a couple of Manamorphose could be included to transform the RRRR from SSGs into RRU for Maniac plus U for the cantrip without needing the extra mana as Pentad Prism, but the deck is already really tight and although they replace themselves if drawn precombo, producing R and the unknown card factor in the starting hand could led to awkward situations.

[fogxanic]

I played yesterday at 26 player tournament with this deck for 3-1 record. G1 vs. Uw "disruption" 0-2, g2 vs. Merfolk 2-0, g3 vs. Jund 2-0, g4 vs. Uwr midrange 2-1. I added 2 duresses maindeck now.

[Fortunae]

I played yesterday at 26 player tournament with this deck for 3-1 record. G1 vs. Uw "disruption" 0-2, g2 vs. Merfolk 2-0, g3 vs. Jund 2-0, g4 vs. Uwr midrange 2-1. I added 2 duresses maindeck now.

That's great! Would you mind posting your list?

[fogxanic]

That's great! Would you mind posting your list?

Sure, it's below. So now there are 2 duresses maindeck after changes I think I took 2 remands away. There is a modern tournament coming at saturday I would like very much play again with this (other option would be merfolks). I think sb needs 1 pact of negation. I think all 3 win cons are required to confuse opponents. Won 1 game with maniac and 1 game with conflagrate on wednesday.


Creatures 3

3 Simian Spirit Guide

Spells 36

4 Ad Nauseam
4 Angel's Grace
2 Duress
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Lightning Storm
1 Pact of Negation
4 Peer Through Depths
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
3 Lotus Bloom
3 Pentad Prism
3 Phyrexian Unlife
1 Remand
1 Thirst for Knowledge

Lands 21

1 Blood Crypt
2 Darkslick Shores
2 Gemstone Mine
1 Godless Shrine
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Island
3 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Seachrome Coast
1 Steam Vents
2 Watery Grave

Side 15

1 Conflagrate
1 Dimir Charm
1 Echoing Truth
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Laboratory Maniac
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Patrician's Scorn
2 Pyroclasm
2 Rakdos Charm
1 Vendilion Clique

[Yellowsmiley]

How often did you find yourself using Phyrexian Unlife as opposed to Angel's Grace? When I was running both in this deck I found 90% of the time I was using Angel's Grace as opposed to PU. Do you think removing the PU all together or leaving just 1 opening more mana acceleration or dig or protection would be worth it? When I did this on MTGO I found my wins were more consistent around t4/t5.

[fogxanic]

How often did you find yourself using Phyrexian Unlife as opposed to Angel's Grace? When I was running both in this deck I found 90% of the time I was using Angel's Grace as opposed to PU. Do you think removing the PU all together or leaving just 1 opening more mana acceleration or dig or protection would be worth it? When I did this on MTGO I found my wins were more consistent around t4/t5.

I used pu very much. Usually opponent countered it so he had less counters for nauseam. If it hit on board it gives often atleast 2 extra turn for digging cards. Game 2 I sided out most of the pus if I used it first game so opponents enchantment hate is useless. Drawback is that sometimes I got too much ags and/or pus for opening hand. Pu is better if nauseam gets countered you dont lose 2 cards. Not yet sure if 3 pus are needed I do some game testing today.

[Yellowsmiley]

This is more of a question about mtgo I guess, but has anyone played this on mtgo? I lost my first game because I didn't know you have to hold ctrl to retain priority after casting Lightning Storm . However what about if you cast Conflagrate after desperate ritual? When I did it it ate all the red mana, making x = 1, and I couldn't figure out how to stop this and make it only eat 1 red mana making x=0.

I've only started playing on mtgo about a week ago, excuse my newbish questions.

[Mr. Safety]

Sure, it's below. So now there are 2 duresses maindeck after changes I think I took 2 remands away. There is a modern tournament coming at saturday I would like very much play again with this (other option would be merfolks). I think sb needs 1 pact of negation. I think all 3 win cons are required to confuse opponents. Won 1 game with maniac and 1 game with conflagrate on wednesday.


Creatures 3

3 Simian Spirit Guide

Spells 36

4 Ad Nauseam
4 Angel's Grace
2 Duress
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Lightning Storm
1 Pact of Negation
4 Peer Through Depths
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
3 Lotus Bloom
3 Pentad Prism
3 Phyrexian Unlife
1 Remand
1 Thirst for Knowledge

Lands 21

1 Blood Crypt
2 Darkslick Shores
2 Gemstone Mine
1 Godless Shrine
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Island
3 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Seachrome Coast
1 Steam Vents
2 Watery Grave

Side 15

1 Conflagrate
1 Dimir Charm
1 Echoing Truth
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Laboratory Maniac
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Patrician's Scorn
2 Pyroclasm
2 Rakdos Charm
1 Vendilion Clique

Three Lotus Blooms seems wrong. It is terrible as a draw past turn 2, unless you get nuts lucky in the matchup, and you want to maximize chances of it being in your opening hand. My ability to pull out games against soft counters (Spell Pierce, Mana Leak) go up dramatically with a t1-2 Bloom. Having the extra mana has provided me with an Ad Nauseam for straight up end-of-turn draw 5-8 cards, which has won me several games. It's dangerous, but you just need to realize that once you're at 5 life the AN has to stop or risk losing to another one off the top.

[fogxanic]

Mr. Safety

Well T1 Sleight helps find lotus bloom. Maybe 1 phyrexian unlife can be changed to lotus but then I would want another thirst for discarding extra fax mana stones which are not needed.

I played yesterday with previous list at 24 player tournament. There were 5 rounds and top 4. G1 vs. Grixis control 2-1, G2 vs. Grixis cruel ultimatum 1-2, G3 vs. valakut 2-1, G4 vs. melira pod 2-1 and G5 vs. rdw 2-0. There were 5 players at same 12 points in swiss but and I went to top 4. Other top 4 guys wanted to split they all had melira pods and were scared I think I accepted split.

Game 2 won against melira pod was really nice. He podded few turns and went to 14 life and managed to get ethersworn canonist onboard. I had very little life but phyrexian unlife. So on my turn I got fifth land and have lotus bloom on battlefield. I played AN and found 6 lands + LS. On his upkeep I played LS on him and hoped he don't have any lands at hand from 3 cards. He didn't and I made 15 dmg to him.

Also I figured that angel's grace is superior against valakut. I was at 17 life and had unlife but he tryed to shoot me with 36 so I cast ag and won next turn because he had all lands tapped and 2 remands in hand.

[Mr. Safety]

Considering your strong focus on Phyrexian Unlife (three copies, while I only play one) I would suggest just working towards more copies of Thirst for Knowledge anyways. Peer through Depths cannot find Unlife, so if you brick on Grace/Nauseam the best you can get is another cantrip or maybe a protection. This isn't bad, it just isn't optimal. I would probalby split your Peer/Thirst 3/2 respectively. A turn 3 Thirst to setup a turn 4 win is still really powerful. I'm considering using Thirst in my list as well, because I'm not that keen on Mystical Teachings. It's too slow.

[fogxanic]

Considering your strong focus on Phyrexian Unlife (three copies, while I only play one) I would suggest just working towards more copies of Thirst for Knowledge anyways. Peer through Depths cannot find Unlife, so if you brick on Grace/Nauseam the best you can get is another cantrip or maybe a protection. This isn't bad, it just isn't optimal. I would probalby split your Peer/Thirst 3/2 respectively. A turn 3 Thirst to setup a turn 4 win is still really powerful. I'm considering using Thirst in my list as well, because I'm not that keen on Mystical Teachings. It's too slow.

I was at 25 player GPT tournament today and had list with this 3/2 peer/thirst ratio. Also I had 2 duresses and 1 inquisition maindeck. I lost first game for Jund, he had 2 discards in first game. Second game I sided out 2 duresses and kept inquisition. I got leyline in opening hand. Turn 2 he pulsed it away and my turn 3 I cast inquisition saw 1 inquisition 1 liliana 1 slaughter games and something. Too bad I coulnt take SG, in 2 turn he cast it to me and it was lose. I was thinking would it be worth playing thoughtseize in deck, against some faster deck 2 life loss would be too much but its more effective than other discards. This was at 4th round after it I was 3-1. ID 5th round and to top 8.

In top 8 I lost first game for melira pod, he had T3 infite lives. Second game he got infinite lives combo easily with endless scy1. Ofcource I had maniac inside deck now and possibility to win. But he attacked very quickly and I was unable to find combo pieces in time and lost. I was thinking would Suppression Field be good on sideboard? If I cut some fetches and add these.

Other matchup I won in this tournament were UWR, GR Tron and GW hatebears. Also I thought adding creeping tar pit in the deck, would be ok for killing liliana and just attacking for victory but it would require additional vendilion clique on sb.

[Mr. Safety]

It seems like you are simply overthinking it, honestly. How many of those matchups would have been solved by Pithing Needle? It's fast and very effective.

This is my sideboard currently (maindeck hasn't changed except for -1 Phyrexian Unlife, +1 Peer through Depths, +1 Thirst for Knowledge, -1 Mystical Teachings):

1x Pact of Negation
1x Slaughter Pact
1x Patrician's Scorn
3x Pyroclasm
2x Pithing Needle
3x Leyline of Sanctity
2x Laboratory Maniac
2x Silence


I think if you're facing off a fast deck that Inquisition would be good against then Pyroclasm or Firespout is really your answer. It won't nab a Dark Confidant or Tarmogoyf, but they will kill Deathrites/Bobs/fast creatures. Another option is Slagstorm, which can be used to deal damage to PW's. Jund is indeed a tough matchup, lots of disruption with a fast clock. Not unbeatable by any means though. I would side out the targeted discard for Leylines, Needles, and probably Pyroclasm/Firespout (whichever you decide on running.) Needle their Liliana/Deathrite, Pyroclasm their small dudes if you can, and hopefully get a turn zero Leyline. From there it's a matter of digging until you get there. Maniac seems good against them too, provided you deal with their Liliana. I wouldn't put Maelstrom Pulse beyond your capabilities either, not with Pentad Prism and a fetch/dual mana base.

Regarding Thoughtseize, I've been debating it myself. Not many decks will use the extra 2 life to kill you, but a few can. I think it's worth playtesting. I might do a 2/2 split between Duress/Thoughtseize. I just don't see that many valid targets for Inquisition. If creatures are a problem, side in a fast wiper. It's really the counterspells/PW's/discard/combo pieces that are causing trouble. ALL OF THEM are answered by Duress or sideboarded Pithing Needle.

Just some thoughts. I have been developing other decks lately, but this one is still built, waiting for the right moment to take advantage of the right metagame.