Sleeves: Dragon Shield vs KMC

[H]

I got that information second hand so let me verify.

Thanks, I would definitely like them flat and consistent heights, but I'm not sure I'd like them if they were a lighter color.

[Warr]

Still trying to a dig a little deeper on this one. So there are 2 versions of gold with different SKUs.

Gold: http://www.directdamage.net/catalog/...in_gold/121193
"New Gold": http://www.directdamage.net/catalog/...ew_gold/121573

The New Gold are the only stock number offered on Arcane Tinmen's (manufacturer's) site.

Trying to figure out if the change from Gold to New Gold was recent (like as of this year) or it's the change in gold sleeves from a couple years ago. I remember Dragon Shield's gold sleeves used to be light enough you could see through them so they wouldn't be legal for double-sided cards.

[H]

Hmmm, I definitely bought the pack of Gold ones I have now within the last 2 years and they are quite dark and opaque, certainly not see through. I'm not sure when they would have made that change though.

It seems that the AT-100XX model numbers are all new but I don't know if that means they are all on that newer process like the Turquoise and Copper or not.

[Anarky87]

This is kind of unrelated to which sleeve is better. Is there a way to alleviate all the air that gets trapped in the Dragon Shields when you double sleeve? Every time I use DS my deck ends up looking like a commander deck and almost becomes impossible to shuffle.

Some people have said it goes away after a couple shuffles, but I've gone several tournaments and the air still remains.

[Quasim0ff]

This is kind of unrelated to which sleeve is better. Is there a way to alleviate all the air that gets trapped in the Dragon Shields when you double sleeve? Every time I use DS my deck ends up looking like a commander deck and almost becomes impossible to shuffle.

Some people have said it goes away after a couple shuffles, but I've gone several tournaments and the air still remains.

I usually just squeeze it, ie take 10 cards, place them in a pile and press down on them with the inside of my hand removing all the air.

[cab0747]

This is kind of unrelated to which sleeve is better. Is there a way to alleviate all the air that gets trapped in the Dragon Shields when you double sleeve? Every time I use DS my deck ends up looking like a commander deck and almost becomes impossible to shuffle.

Some people have said it goes away after a couple shuffles, but I've gone several tournaments and the air still remains.

I put mine in a deck box and then add some garbage commons. This squeezes the deck and in about 24 hours you won't be playing with a stack of balloons.

[Darkenslight]

This is kind of unrelated to which sleeve is better. Is there a way to alleviate all the air that gets trapped in the Dragon Shields when you double sleeve? Every time I use DS my deck ends up looking like a commander deck and almost becomes impossible to shuffle.

Some people have said it goes away after a couple shuffles, but I've gone several tournaments and the air still remains.

Are you using the Inverse method for the Perfect Fits (PF opening at the bottom fo the card, then sleeve) or the Converse (Both PF and DS opening at the same end)? I ask because when I switched to the Invers,e whilst the deck size was slightly larger, there was considerably less air trapped inside when I pushed down.

[Sloshthedark]

Are you using the Inverse method for the Perfect Fits (PF opening at the bottom fo the card, then sleeve) or the Converse (Both PF and DS opening at the same end)? I ask because when I switched to the Invers,e whilst the deck size was slightly larger, there was considerably less air trapped inside when I pushed down.

wtf would anyone use the "Converse"? you lose the protection this way .. // just press out the air it remains so after a game or two

[Anarky87]

I'll probably try a mix of the methods mentioned above. I noticed today when I was cleaning some sleeves that it must have pushed some air out with it; it seemed pretty manageable afterward.

That was the problem I kept having. I'd show someone my giant balloon deck, they'd say just play a few games and it'll all be gone. I'd play an entire tournaments worth of games (constantly compressing the deck before each game), and my deck would still be enormous and they'd just shrug and tell me they didn't know.

I'll give some of these tips a try. Thanks.

[Claymore1]

Just out of curiousity, since the discussion is KMC vs Dragonshields. Is Player's Choice and KMC the same thing? I was wondering because that's what the store owner told me.

[snorlaxcom]

This is kind of unrelated to which sleeve is better. Is there a way to alleviate all the air that gets trapped in the Dragon Shields when you double sleeve? Every time I use DS my deck ends up looking like a commander deck and almost becomes impossible to shuffle.

Some people have said it goes away after a couple shuffles, but I've gone several tournaments and the air still remains.

I had a similar issue with a new pack of kmc hyper mat. Fixed it after I pushed the pf card into the kmc sleeve but making sure to stop about 3mm from the bottom of the regular sleeve. I compressed the sleeve at this point to have the majority of air escape and then pushed the pf card to the bottom. I then compressed again and they have been fine since.

You may run into an issue with curling or already curled foils since there is space between the pf and foil curvature more often. On these cards I have to compress again or just say screw it and trade for flat foil, nonfoil, or play on.

[Avatar of Light]

It seems that the AT-100XX model numbers are all new but I don't know if that means they are all on that newer process like the Turquoise and Copper or not.

Bought a box of the "New Gold" about a month ago. Seems like it's still the old process since I ended up with uneven sleeves (ironically, 4 x 26, each batch at a different length).

[H]

Bought a box of the "New Gold" about a month ago. Seems like it's still the old process since I ended up with uneven sleeves (ironically, 4 x 26, each batch at a different length).

Thanks, that is what I was figuring. Have to decide now if I should get a case now or not.

[death]

The new Ultra Pros are crap compared to the older generation. I have since used KMC matt blacks and they are durable but lately the ones I received were narrower, not ideal if you double sleeve. The KMC metallics peel easily so don't get those. KMC Super or Dragon Shield are my next sleeves.

[thecrav]

Someone just started a thread on Reddit about this. There's not much there now, but you may get some useful information out of it later.

[death]

From what I've gathered KMC HYPER MAT and Dragon Shield FUSION are the latest to come out from both manufacturers. The newer KMC HYPER are less durable than the old MAT and the FUSION are narrower than normal. They are both cut shorter than regular which could be a problem, the top edge of the cards could stick out. Another thing to consider for those who double sleeve.

[H]

The new Ultra Pros are crap compared to the older generation. I have since used KMC matt blacks and they are durable but lately the ones I received were narrower, not ideal if you double sleeve. The KMC metallics peel easily so don't get those. KMC Super or Dragon Shield are my next sleeves.

Yeah, all my recent experiances with Ultra-Pros are that they are garbage. I have some really old Ultra-Pro sleeves and those were pretty much indestructible. The new ones, on the other hand, split if you look at them too hard.

I used to love the KMC sleeves. Once I started double sleeving though, I was really turned off by the fact that some colors were not consistant in fitting the perfect fits in them. I do have over 1,000 Super Orange sleeves that I got for a cube, but over time I have found that (for me) the KMCs get too sticky too quickly (could just be that I am a greasy SOB, or something maybe).

Someone just started a thread on Reddit about this. There's not much there now, but you may get some useful information out of it later.

Thanks, I saw another reddit post from a while back that discussed this too. There were talks that Dragon Shield wanted the flat and even cut of the new sleeves and the slightly higher durability of the old style and so they are probably experimenting.

From what I've gathered KMC HYPER MAT and Dragon Shield FUSION are the latest to come out from both manufacturers. The newer KMC HYPER are less durable than the old MAT and the FUSION are narrower than normal. They are both cut shorter than regular which could be a problem, the top edge of the cards could stick out. Another thing to consider for those who double sleeve.

I might try some HYPER MATs in the near future, I am pretty sure my order from Potomac will qualify for a free pack. I think I am going to just bite the bullet and order a case of the Gold Dragon Shields. The curl doesn't really bother me all that much, I just like the more consistent cut of the "newer style."

[MGB]

I honestly don't know why the answer just isn't "KMC Hyper Matte" for all of these questions about which sleeves to get. They've been FAR and AWAY the best sleeves for me since I started playing Magic. All of these issues with ripping and tearing have never occurred for me, and they consistently look and feel like the best out of all of the available sleeves.

[death]

I ordered Dragon Shield Coppers because the sleeves have clearance for KMC perfect fits, they lay flat and I heard the suffling experience is also great ;) I have no doubt they're more durable than kmc HYPER mats and ultra pros.

Copper (left) vs. Fusion (right)

[Tormod]

I ordered Dragon Shield Coppers because the sleeves have clearance for KMC perfect fits, they lay flat and I heard the suffling experience is also great ;) I have no doubt they're more durable than kmc HYPER mats and ultra pros.

Copper (left) vs. Fusion (right)

curious: Why do you have one stack face up and one stack face down?

Are the cuts different with different colors?