Then after like 2 months (Originally Posted by SuckerPunch
) i want to reply to you.
First about Meloku; i don't know how this guy is better than Morphling. it suffer simply to every form of disruption that exist in the world, a thing that Morph don't cause his untargetably ability (and then you dont need a counter to protect it).
Second abount Powder Kegs; they are simply good against 1cc Creatures and Artifacts and what do you want in the format (like Needle, Lackley, Mongoose, Vials ecc ecc); i never want to cut them out. Maybe is not the BEST choice vs Gobs but now the meta have many others decks good; BeB in the SB are specially for Goblin, and this is enough. (don't misunderstand me anyhow; Goblin matchup is one of worst if not The worst, and is ever diffucult to play against).
Third i agree to you about 4 Shack main and also with cutting out Impulses; i found impulse little useless quite times, and maybe is the time to find other thing in their place. Conterbalance looks good, but need a bit testing. Another that looks good is Stifle, that can be amazing vs many many decks.
Finally one thing about BBS vs Combo. Now that combo like Solidarity and Iggy-Pop are growing in commonness, i think that this deck can make some show, as well only for the good matchups that he have vs them, helped a lot with Chalices and Stifles in Side.
But... (now I'll find Mr Nithgmare's Rage, asd :D) WHY not Arcane Lab in this deck? Ok, not Isochrone because it's a bad choice and I totally agree but, why not Arcane Lab?
It owns, on its own ALL storm combo decks, it slows fast deck and it also allows you to have sure counters: when you pass and you have a Counterspell in your hand while there is a Arcane Lab online, don't you (or wouldn't you all) fell safe?
I' definitly would run, indeed...
I agree with you that slow down Combo decks (more that slow down they scoop to it) but not that slow fast deck.
It cost 3 and don't Destroy (as Powder Keg) or steal (as Shackles) permanents that are in play; it only (with counters) destroy the future aims of opponent, and i think that this don't help cause at turn 3 you need to destroy/steal creatures/artifacts and don't prepare for future...
Anyhow it may hit the Side vs Combo, together with Chalices.
Hey Hey one Mono Blue BBS top8 at SCG Duel for Duals!!!!
I'm very interesting to see decklist.
Expectant this Move Us to Open Forum!!!
I agree with the white splash, as it gives you access to one of the most needed cards in this deck - Swords to Plowshares.
You'll also have access to Wrath of God, Decree of Justice, Exalted Angel, Meddling Mage, and Disenchant.
I really don't think MuC can be a true contender in 1.5 without a spalsh. BwBS.
Dunno if the list at SCG run White, by the name seems no, but wait until we see that damn list...
The list didn't run white, it was straight mono U. As for playing white wouldn't it just be easier to go along with a Landstill build because that's basically what it would become. It wouldn't be much different and Mono U is less susceptible to things like wasteland.
It was a very basic list. I was kinda stunned when I saw it. I assumed something with MD Chalice or other weird stuf, but it was just plain old BBS with Shackles, B2B and Powderkeg. The only difference was that it played Quicksand instead of Wasteland, but that was a logical difference. Maybe the list was the best BBS list al along.
I'm actually excited about this deck too, but let's stop posting about how excited we are and let's start posting some facts worthy of discussion. A deck list, for starters, sure would be "thetitz."
Okey i start with my current decklist:
4 Ophidian
2 Morphling
4 Fact or Fiction
4 Brainstorm
3 Impulse
4 Mana Leak
4 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
2 Misdirection
4 Powder Keg
3 Vedalken Shackles
4 Wasteland
4 Flooded Strand
14 Island
Sideboard
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blue Elemental Blast
3 Back To Basics
3 Stifle
1 Vedalken Shackles
I try Stifle Main but i feel that he don't work so better MD in this deck. He is very amazing vs Combo and against a ton cards of the field, but i think that in this deck the right place is in Side and not MD.
As you can see my current list don't change so much by the list at start of the thread.
I want to see decklist of the 5° place at SCG and compare to my; i hear rumors that he have Quicksand instead of Wasteland but dunno for sure.
If that Guy can post here his decklist we will be very Happy!!!
15 [6E] Island (2)
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
2 [VI] Quicksand
2 [TE] Wasteland
4 [WL] Ophidian
2 [US] Morphling
4 [5E] Brainstorm
2 [UD] Powder Keg
2 [FD] Vedalken Shackles
4 [AL] Force of Will
3 [VI] Impulse
4 [6E] Counterspell
4 [9E] Mana Leak
3 [IN] Fact or Fiction
3 [LG] Force Spike
2 [US] Back to Basics
SB: 1 [FD] Vedalken Shackles
SB: 2 [US] Back to Basics
SB: 2 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 3 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4 [U] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 3 [MR] Chalice of the Void
This is a similar list to what t8'd at d4d day 1. I'm not sure if it is the exact he ran, this is a list he sent me a few weeks prior to the event. One thing I do know was that he had repeal in the sb of the t8 list.
@Elf
If there is heavy Hymn to tourachs and gerrard's verdicts floating around playing misdirection can pick up those matches greatly and with Mono U, Thresh shouldn't be too much of a problem.
Last edited by Sugar Woof; 10-10-2006 at 01:08 PM. Reason: More Info towards another post
Back to Basics is what makes the deck. I seen builds like that years ago with moderate success. I'd personally would run Echoing Truth to make that nasty little enchantment even nastier.
Why in the nine hells, I wonder, did this list not run propoganda? It can like stall for like forever, yo.
I'm here to kick ass and play card games.
BZK
If that is the build he used, it definantly is odd. Atleast comepared to my old old MUC deck. Lot less counters, lot more draw. Several odd number cards, and BtB main...
The board is what id exspect for todays popular meta. Cept no Propaganda or Stifles.
I dont dont know. I guess BEB+Spike+Will could hose goblins better then prop, since prop doesent come out till turn 3. But lack of Stifle deffinantly hurts the solidarity match up.
Back to Basics is tech...... it wrecks a large percentage of the decks out there. I don't see anything wrong with that card choice considering alot of tier 1 decks run dual lands.
Okay Okay, enough about what the decklist is all about.
We(Eric McGraw and I) tested BBS for about 3 months. We knew the deck was viable. So I took his old list and started to playtest on MWS.
Here is what we both played at D4D Day 1
15-Islands
3-Quicksand
4-Polluted Delta
4-Ophidian
2-Morphling
4-Force of Will
4-Brainstorm
3-Fact or Fiction
3-Impulse
3-Force Spike
4-Counterspell
4-Mana Leak
2-Vedalken Shackles
2-Powder Keg
2-Back To Basics
Sideboard
1-Vedalken Shackles
2-Repeal
3-Chalice of the Void
3-Hydroblast
2-Blue Elemental Blast
2-Pithing Needle
I top 8'd with this deck. Granted, I only lost to Solidarity the whole day. I had to beat goblins, thresh and affinity to get there. I didnt loose a game to them. Please dont call it luck. Two of the Thresh players i beat in Swiss both Top 8'd. So no more talk about luck.
Dispute:
Morphling is the best creature around. Meloku will still die to Swords. Yeah granted it can stabalize the board against aggro but how long will meloku stay alive. Morphling will die only to Diabolict Edicts and now Sudden Death. It has far more power than Meloku. We tested and tried it, it doesnt work.
Counterbalance is a cool card. We have not tried it in the deck, though I think it wouldnt work in a deck like this. You would have to build something more viable with library manipulation to make it work.
Stifle does work against Iggy but not against Solidarity. They can just merely Remand the Brainfreeze once priority is passed back. The problem with the Solidarity matchup is that BBS doesnt put enough early presssure on them to go off early. They can sit back and get the "nut" hand. Though there are certain ways to get around this. Its not as easy as one might think. Arcane Lab does seem like a viable choice. Though it still needs to be playtested with.
We were once running Misderection SB but realized that it didnt help us enough in matchups. Its a solid card if there is loads of dicard hate(such as Hyms) but the format doesnt see enough of it to make it a staple in the deck.
Impulse is powerful. It helps get through your deck when you need that Shackles, a Back to Basics, maybe a Powderkeg to start blowing up pesky 1 mana costing creatures. It just is helpful overall to get anything you need. Yes, it and manaleak are competing for the turn two drop. Though, Impulse just helps get through your deck quicker to get what you need. Playtest and you will see my point.
Back to Basics MB was changed around August because we kept loosing to certain decks. Imagine dropping BTB on turn 3 to Thresh, Affinity, 41 lands? It is a bomb, and if its not needed. Just pith to a FoW.
ForceSpikes are a must to stabalize the early game. BBS will loose to aggro if it cant stabalize by turn 3. If you can make it past turn 5 without TOO much damage. You will win on attrition...
Quicksands were put in instead of Wastelands because it helped us kill certain aggro creatures and gave us another way of removal. Sure we could have blown up non-basic lands, but wouldnt you rather blow up creatures that are killing you?
Conclusion:
The Sideboard does need some work. Propaganda was not tested, and we do need to improve our matchup against Solidarity.
Each player has his own belief and theory behind sideboard. We used Repeal because it could help us bounce pesky enchantments and creatures while trading for a card for card advantage. Everything else should speak for itself...
If you dont believe in our build, thats fine. Just dont knock it until you've playtested with it.
Gearheart, I look forward to playing against you again...Next Time i will be prepared.
Last edited by Maximus04; 10-11-2006 at 12:15 AM. Reason: Mispellings and not clear enough
Has anyone else considered running mainboard Chalices? Set at one it shuts down many keys to popular decks. No Lackey, Fanatic, Goose and Thresh cantrips, Duress, Therapy... the list goes on. It does also shut off Brainstorm here, but it's easy to play around. Extras can always be pitched to Force.
I have concluded that the reason MUC has a hard time handling goblins and other aggro is the lack of board control. Chalice helps solve that problem. Maindeck B2B helps with many of the decks that have multicolored manabases but it doens't hurt us at all. Also, has anyone else tested with Propaganda? I've done a little bit with it and it seems to have promise especially in conjunction with B2B. Plus it slows down the Goblin clock since the deck has a such a low land count. Stalling for time in order to get a Shackles or Keg online is key and using those components for a temporary lock is a good thing.
Hello,
I'm playing with MD Chalice of the Void now for some months, but I have mixed feelings about it. Sometimes I win games solely because of Chalice of the Void, other times it is as dead as a dodo, being to slow.
I have no way of playing it turn one for 1, wich is a problem. Another problem is that I can't play it for anything else than 0 or 1. At 2 it stops my deck in his tracks blocking Counterspell, Mana Leak, Impulse and Powder Keg.
I've tried alot of different versions but can't make it as viable as the "standard" version( of Maximus.)
Is there any good acc. for this deck, so it can play more like Accelerated Blue? That version can utilize a Chalice of the Void better.
Propaganda isn't really good in the current enviroment. Goblins have Red Elemental Blast and Siege-Gang Commander to get around it and double Goblin Piledriver. Powder Keg and Back to Basic take care of Affinity. Stompy( Faerie/Angel) only needs 1 creature to have a decent clock.
BB
I'd really want to run Chrome Moxen in BBS. The deck runs the draw and the bombs to make up for the lost card advantage, but the one thing it doesn't have is consistent early game to fight off hordes. Plaing a number of Moxes could really help in getting things to work.
Ok now my reflections..
About Meloku/Morphling nothing more to add. Morph simply rulez. period.
I don't play MD Back to Basics cause in my meta there are not so many Duals (cause price i think), then i cut it to Side; he is fantastic in the format anyhow.
About Force Spikes i play with it many time ago, and instead of them i prefer to add more Powder kegs (4); very often i go down to 4-6 life before stabilized with
Kegs/Shackles and for now works fine (quite).
As i write before i don't run B2B then i must run wasteland (wasteland and quicksand for me are absolutely metagame choice; they are very strong everyone then one take his choice and go..).
Also Misdirections are useful sometimes and other not; i go for them in Side for now but maybe i'll cut them..
About Impulse i'm completely agree with you. They simply take what do you want at that moment; i think also that 3 are the perfect number cause the 4° sometimes is useless.
ps: ah another thing: why this thread is not still in the Open Forum?
not to be niggler but now this deck has right, not?
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