[SCD] Black Vise

[Freggle]

Needs more Cyclonic Rifts :) Maybe FoWs and Statis too..

I put the list together last night, and did some testing. The list is playable, with some tuning it may be good.

I try arcane denial, and nift.

[rufus]

...

I try arcane denial, and nift.

Shades of Ice Age era stasis.

Isn't Remand a better version of Arcane Denial?

[Admiral_Arzar]

Shades of Ice Age era stasis.

Isn't Remand a better version of Arcane Denial?

I think the point is to draw your opponent cards, so Arcane Denial is arguably better here.

[iamajellydonut]

I think the point is to draw your opponent cards, so Arcane Denial is arguably better here.

Arcane Denial is a "may".

[Sloshthedark]

Needs more Cyclonic Rifts :) Maybe FoWs and Statis too..

and Magosi, the Waterveil ; )

[Admiral_Arzar]

Arcane Denial is a "may".

Nvm, I didn't RTFC.

[iamajellydonut]

Nvm, I didn't RTFC.

Ten points from Gryffindor.

[nedleeds]

After 8 rounds of Black Vise in Stasis and MUD I can confirm my thoughts that this card should have been unbanned years ago. Between mulligans and being on the draw it's pretty bad. It is however the only real win condition in Stasis. I viced a few people, but also did nothing in plenty of games trying to find either a flash mine, or a Stasis. Also Abrupt Decay has been printed since 1995.

[Noctalor]

Unsure if the best part is the stasis or the rug delver name.

[Richard Cheese]

I think the point is to draw your opponent cards, so Arcane Denial is arguably better here.

At least back in the day, it was more about exploiting the cheap cost and card draw of Denial without giving them the cards, or at least making the decision slightly tougher.

Also Arcane Denial has RKF art, old frame, and costs $0.10, so clearly it's the better choice here.

[jrsthethird]

Also Arcane Denial has RKF art, old frame, and costs $0.10, so clearly it's the better choice here.

Not always. Playing against Stasis is bad enough; imagine having your Goyf countered by this monstrosity:

[Bed Decks Palyer]

The deck isn't a straight Burn variant where you're just emptying your hand and hoping it's enough, which is what makes a card like Storm World effective here. You're punishing an opponent for having too many cards in their hand, too little cards in their hand, playing lands and playing spells. This was a proven strategy that worked many years ago, and while an argument can be made that the evolution of play has worked against this deck being able to operate, you could also argue it has worked in favor of the concept because powerful spells are cheaper and mana-bases are more greedy (especially with fetches).

I guess that the main trouble of this strategy is that there are decks that simply don't give a fuck about it.
Miracles might lock you outof game with CB/Top and laugh at your tries to lock them via some crappy 4+cards "lock" where the pieces are not exactly synergistic (Vise+Rack anyone?), and say Storm combo (or Omnicrap) might win against any number of Vises and Stomr World possible.

[Michael Keller]

I guess that the main trouble of this strategy is that there are decks that simply don't give a fuck about it.
Miracles might lock you out of game with CB/Top and laugh at your tries to lock them via some crappy 4+cards "lock" where the pieces are not exactly synergistic (Vise+Rack anyone?), and say Storm combo (or Omnicrap) might win against any number of Vises and Stomr World possible.

My question to you then is this: At what point is it plausible to say that anytime a player assembles the Counterbalance-Sensei's Divining Top combo a no-win situation for anyone, then? Is it always? Explain to me how a variation like this suffers worse than a straight Burn deck with twenty-plus one mana spells in the wake of that combo, or Chalice for that matter? The fact is it doesn't. I played a game on Cockatrice and beat CounterTop yesterday because my opponent was being savaged by Ankh of Mishra on turn two on the play. And when they went to tap their Top mid game to counter something after Forcing the previous turn putting them to five life in the process, I Shrapnel Blasted them to win the game.

I just think people need to open their minds creatively again and understand that it's okay to try new things, even if they fail. I've yet to see this deck fall flat on its feet at this point, while actually being highly competitive in the process of its evolution.

Trust me: I'm not wasting my time on something I wouldn't think would work unless I were absolutely sure it can be competitive - which is all I want in a Legacy deck.

[Megadeus]

Way to make storm world 450 bucks TCG Mid

[iamajellydonut]

Way to make storm world 450 bucks TCG Mid

Fucking what?!

Edit: Still selling for $20-30 on eBay thank God.

[maharis]

Way to make storm world 450 bucks TCG Mid

Me: "Lol, megadeus with the sarcasm! Ha ha! Just out of curiosity, how much is it really?"

....

*hurls self into volcano*

[Bed Decks Palyer]

I played a game and beat a random dude who saw my deck for the first time.

Well, ok, break the Black Vise, then. I'd be more than happy, as I got lots of them.

But I really doubt that there's anything broken about the deck you try, as lots of pieces seem unsynergistic and do very little on their own or even together. The point with Miracles (which is only one example), is that playing say Rack against the deck is far from game-breaking. So is idk Storm World. Or even Vise. I guess that I'd much rather sit against Storm World + Vise than against CB/Top.

"Ancient Thumb, Howling Mine, go!" *grins maniacally*
(opp: dafuq?), draw2, Drits, Crits, IT, PiF, gg.

Imho Land Tax is better card than Black Vise. Under certain circumstances, Land Tax is repeatable Ancestral Recall that refreshes the top for Sylvan Library or Brainstrom or w/e. While Black Vise...

However this is all just a theory. I won't comment on this any furhter, as I realized that I made my usual mistake to dig into things that I don't care about that much. Will you break Vise? Fine, I'll sell lots of them. Will you not break Vise? Fine, I will be right in my assumption that the card is weak.

And no, please, I'm not interested in online testing, as I don't have Cock, and my last MWS update is pre-Treasure Cruise. I'll take a look from time to time to see where's this heading, but other than that, I have low hopes for Vise.dec. (good luck, however...)

[jrsthethird]

Fucking what?!

Edit: Still selling for $20-30 on eBay thank God.

Unstable market is unstable. They've been there for a couple days at least. I grabbed the last few for $8 apiece before the spike last weekend. Still haven't gotten them; people take forever to ship.

As much as I like the symmetry that results in the opponent having a 4 card sweet spot, I don't know if there's anything with this deck, or Black Vise, but 12-Rack could be a thing worth testing out of this. 8-Rack is a thing in Modern.

[iamajellydonut]

I grabbed the last few for $8 apiece before the spike last weekend. Still haven't gotten them; people take forever to ship.

Wait a week for them update tracking before sending a message. Get a reply to the effect of "I don't know what's happening I gave it to the post office a week ago" and see that the shipping info conveniently changes to "received" about an hour after them writing back.

Every fucking time.

[Noctalor]

Btw, a quick question.

Now that legacy is back to absolute bullshit and every single deck is inferior to miracle, are we happy?

That unban sure will punish tho...



(to make it clear, im salty as fuck, back to losing to a no hand monkey with miracles :P)