So for a list that is not running red what is a suitable replacement? I think you would need to main sweepers such as deluge or deed or play more/larger creatures to be able to gum up the ground.

@haddock how is the naya list sacrificing the combo matchup and TNN? The best hatebears are white and judgement handles TNN quite well. You lose -1/-1 effects which I understand but I wouldn't say that the TNN and combo matchups are worse than 4c.

I also don't understand why canopy is bad in loam. Playing it every turn seems fine and you walkways need the option to draw cards with KotR.

The DnT matchup is going to be very difficult sans PFire and maze of ith. Knight isn't enough. Also, @lucky, your statements are written wonky and hard to interpret. Can you clarify your point about DnT?

In your Leovold point, red sweepers are a thing and Naya has Judgement to kill it straight up.